Inverter welding ???

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HiI have the need for a portable welder for some very small welding jobs away from my large mig welder at home.I have done a bit of stick welding on my inherited old stick welder from my dad. This stick welder is a compact hobby welder and is extremely heavy for a small welder, it only has 2 settings (small rods or large rods), anyway it is too cumbersome to lug around on some jobs I need to do, especially where I have to climb up tall antennas and the like.I was looking in the shop the other day and  saw a stick welder called an Inverter ?? Never used one before and the salesman was hit with the 'dumb stick' and left me no better off knowledge wise.  Basically what I need to know is what is the diff between an inverter stick welder and the old fashioned heavy stick welder ? (apart from the obvious weight diff)What do I need to look out for ?What amps should I look for ?What features ?Are they better ?This is one I seen advertised on e-bay, are they any good ?CIGWELD ARC WELDER INVERTER WELDSKILL 170A Thanks in advance for any help.
Reply:Inverters are nice, for light fab work, or if you also want to dabble in TIG. 99% of them won't burn 6010. I've had some success with 6011 though. Aside from usually having lower duty cycles, they sure lay a sweet bead with 7018. 1/8 rod is about max, unless you spend serious coin, by then, buy a REAL stick welder...Also, being away from home and such, search a thread by BSTNJIM, or something. He did a whole test with an Inverter running off a genset. We have 2 Maxstar 150 at work, nice machines for fab work, or tacking a tower to some steel, but running 1/8 7018 sure did tax the little buggers.Lincoln Power MIG 210 MP ( boat anchor )Lincoln Weld-Pac 100 HDHobart IronMan 230Cutmaster 42Jackson NexGenSumner Ultra ClampsDWM120
Reply:Originally Posted by MadMax31Inverters are nice, for light fab work, or if you also want to dabble in TIG. 99% of them won't burn 6010. I've had some success with 6011 though. Aside from usually having lower duty cycles, they sure lay a sweet bead with 7018. 1/8 rod is about max, unless you spend serious coin, by then, buy a REAL stick welder...
Reply:It is amazing what these inverters can do to the puddle. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:OKSo if most of my welding is small stuff, lets say 1 - 3 mm galv box pipe (max of 5mm thick), what AMP welder would do the job. Bearing in mind I NEED real lightweight portability (something I an sling over my shoulder and carry up a tall TV antenna.
Reply:Originally Posted by eyspyOKSo if most of my welding is small stuff, lets say 1 - 3 mm galv box pipe (max of 5mm thick), what AMP welder would do the job. Bearing in mind I NEED real lightweight portability (something I an sling over my shoulder and carry up a tall TV antenna.
Reply:Originally Posted by eyspyOKSo if most of my welding is small stuff, lets say 1 - 3 mm galv box pipe (max of 5mm thick), what AMP welder would do the job. Bearing in mind I NEED real lightweight portability (something I an sling over my shoulder and carry up a tall TV antenna.
Reply:Kind of a strange question.  With 186 posts you must have wandered around these type of places and gathered a bunch by now.  An inverter doesn't have the scrap value of a transformer welder but you must be careful some transformers have a bunch of aluminum in them instead of copper.  Have you got one of these neet things you plug into an automotive cigarette lighter or clip on the battery which allows you to use electric power tools like an electric drill provided the units are properly sized.  Like anything there is a bunch of overlap there are mimimal inverters and there are industrial transformer types which built the space shuttle.The part about climbing the antena is puzzling, is there a plug up there?  When I think of antena I think of something which can be dis assembled.  Working on the large sattelite dishes sometimes the post needed alteration but you would have to be able to weld out of position.  Generally one gets someone with an engine drive welder and runs the leads up.You probably have read more than me about this stuff.  Inverters I have heard/read do use less current, perhaps not much less at max, but the amount they use can change in thousands of a second so not all generators work them well.A guy once gave me some  coated nickel rods he said were much stronger than brazing rods for when you didn't want to bother with electricity and only carry small bottles and regulators and torch and tips.  I have no idea where they are but the bronze rod works for me.
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawwe need some more info,   what process do you want to use to start with? SMAW, TIG or MIG?  for us yanks, that woud be like 3/16 max thickness.  what is your power source? 115, 230, etc single or dual phase and 50 or 60 hertz. also what is your budget and how much will you be using it..  a couple hrs a week or 8 hrs a day 5 days a week?3 of the machines in my sig are inverters, I am in the process of selling off all my transformer machines...  Inverter is the only way to go for what you want to do...  If you are not on a budget check out the Thermal Arc Inverter line...http://thermadyne.com/IM_Uploads/Doc...BRO_5-2-11.pdf I am in the process of testing the Everlast 140st.   but without answers to the questions above I cannot recommend what would be the best machine/brand for you
Reply:Originally Posted by fran...k.Kind of a strange question.  With 186 posts you must have wandered around these type of places and gathered a bunch by now.
Reply:Wow... home TV towers and antennas are Dead and Gone here for years... folks either went satelite dish (big, then small) or to cable TV.  In fact, we receive warnings that analog video transmission will cease very soon - so there is no more use at all for a TV antenna on top of a tower.Last edited by Rick V; 09-14-2011 at 10:38 PM.Reason: spell errorRick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:Originally Posted by MadMax31Also, being away from home and such, search a thread by BSTNJIM, or something. He did a whole test with an Inverter running off a genset.
Reply:eyspy,I'm just a DIY guy, and only do stick welding on mild steel i.e. nothing clever or challenging.I had an old transformer welder that had seen better days. I bought a cheap inverter welder a couple of years ago and it was a completely different experience - it improved my welding hugely.It would have been one of the rebadged Chinese machines that are taking over the world and that upset people the Americans so much. Note to the Americans - I don't think anybody over here makes welders so we don't have much choise other than to buy an imported one.I bought it through a local company called Token Tools. They seem to be good operators and have a physical shopfront (albeit a long way from you) as well as an internet shop.Last edited by scott brunsdon; 09-14-2011 at 11:09 PM.Yeah, I carry.House keys, wallet, some change, usually a newspaper, maybe a pen.
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmThis one....http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=41121Contrary to what MadMax believes.  1/8" 7018 is not a problem for Maxstars.
Reply:Originally Posted by scott brunsdoneyspy,I'm just a DIY guy, and only do stick welding on mild steel i.e. nothing clever or challenging.I had an old transformer welder that had seen better days. I bought a cheap inverter welder a couple of years ago and it was a completely different experience - it improved my welding hugely.It would have been one of the rebadged Chinese machines that are taking over the world and that upset people the Americans so much. Note to the Americans - I don't think anybody over here makes welders so we don't have much choise other than to buy an imported one.I bought it through a local company called Token Tools. They seem to be good operators and have a physical shopfront (albeit a long way from you) as well as an internet shop.
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick VWow... home TV towers and antennas are Dead and Gone here for years... folks either went satelite dish (big, then small) or to cable TV.  In fact, we receive warnings that analog video transmission will cease very soon - so there is no more use at all for a TV antenna on top of a tower.
Reply:Originally Posted by eyspyWay to big to be lugging on my back up a tower ! Thanks anyway.
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1Analog is already over but...Same antenna for Digital reception- Older TV needs a converter but hook up any new HD TV with a Tuner built in and you get OTH HD signal and the rest of the digi stations just fine from  5 dollar Rabbit ears and the same for a tower antenna or roof top. Of course they want ya to believe you need to go buy an HD antennaOTH is public property- the Cable and Sat companies want it to go away but it will be around for a while.
Reply:Ummm, guys, not to be a pain in the neck here, but the OP is Australian, I don't think they're going by the US government's regulation to do away with analog TV signals Awwww Crud I gotta edit, I stuck my foot in my mouth and shoulda googled before hand, they are going digital in OZ, sorry, disregard, back to your regularly scheduled programing......in crystal clear high quality digital of course......Last edited by number2onmyshoe; 09-15-2011 at 12:22 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by Brad BlazerYup - Over the air + Netflix = no cable bill AND superior service. This is a renaissance for broadcast TV. 40+ channels here.
Reply:Originally Posted by scott brunsdoneyspy,I'm just a DIY guy, and only do stick welding on mild steel i.e. nothing clever or challenging.I had an old transformer welder that had seen better days. I bought a cheap inverter welder a couple of years ago and it was a completely different experience - it improved my welding hugely.It would have been one of the rebadged Chinese machines that are taking over the world and that upset people the Americans so much. Note to the Americans - I don't think anybody over here makes welders so we don't have much choise other than to buy an imported one.I bought it through a local company called Token Tools. They seem to be good operators and have a physical shopfront (albeit a long way from you) as well as an internet shop.
Reply:Originally Posted by stiffman....The only factor is the 170 has a 15 amp plug, so that will limit where you can plug it in...... Maybe the weldskill 130 would be more useful? it gives you a 10 amp plug, and should be more than enough to weld such thin steel. I'm not sure how much smaller it is, but it should be smaller and lighter than the 170Not being a pro welder, but from my experience, and reading, cigweld seems to be a fairly big brand here in australia, so I wouldn't put it in with usual cheap chineese ebay welders.
Reply:Get the 170 HF kit with the TIG torch so in the future you will be ready to have a shot at DC TIG welding ( steel, stainless).
Reply:OK... I gotta ask...why would you want to carry a welding machine up a tower? Why not leave it on the ground and pull up a small welding lead? For the service that you described, it would seem to me that a piece of #4 would be fine for a small, short duration job.
Reply:I realize it is a paying job however it sounds like it really should be done with bolt on brackets.  I was involved with moving/lowering an antenna on a 120 or so foot tall tower because the avation regulations changed and we attached it to the side of the tower instead of the top and it was all bolt on.  Welding will ruin the galvenization in the area of the weld.  Unless you are good there seem to be little cavities the flux is virtually impossible to remove.Back to the origional post.  The inverters seem to start out making dc and ac costs more while the transformers are the other way around.  I have a Lincoln v275-s which you should be able to carry to the bottom of the tower (It will work at 150 amps output on a 30 amp 230 volt without tripping)  however if I couldn't detach a section of the tower and weld it on the ground positioning it as needed I would hire someone who wouldn't spend more time grinding than welding.Another thing to consider is to check how much extention chord and lead length the manual says is allowable.franLast edited by fran...k.; 09-15-2011 at 08:34 AM.Originally Posted by welds4dOK... I gotta ask...why would you want to carry a welding machine up a tower? Why not leave it on the ground and pull up a small welding lead? For the service that you described, it would seem to me that a piece of #4 would be fine for a small, short duration job.
Reply:I second the recommendation for the Maxstar 150. I have one, great little unit. No problem with 1/8" 7018 if run on 230V, which is what they have in Oz.The newer Cigweld machines (Thermal Arc here in the States) are made in China, but as they're backed by a reputable company they don't make me as nervous as most Chinese machines.With a machine as light as the Maxstar, carrying the machine up the tower with you is actually an advantage since the 15A cord is a lot lighter than 2 #4 cables and there is less problem with voltage drop.JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:....or you could look at something like a Kemppi of Fronius.  Used a lot on some job sites ive been on.  They are a little smaller than the Cigweld units, but pack the same if not more punch.Never seen a Maxstar for sale in Australia.http://www.kemppi.com/inet/kemppi/en...topcat=Product Info
Reply:Originally Posted by MadMax31Inverters are nice, for light fab work, or if you also want to dabble in TIG. 99% of them won't burn 6010. I've had some success with 6011 though. Aside from usually having lower duty cycles, they sure lay a sweet bead with 7018. 1/8 rod is about max, unless you spend serious coin, by then, buy a REAL stick welder...Also, being away from home and such, search a thread by BSTNJIM, or something. He did a whole test with an Inverter running off a genset. We have 2 Maxstar 150 at work, nice machines for fab work, or tacking a tower to some steel, but running 1/8 7018 sure did tax the little buggers.
Reply:I've got a friend who does emergency repairs on tower cranes. He's got a little Maxstar ( I think it's the 200 rather than the 150 but I might be wrong) that he uses much of the time. He's also got a small gas powered gen set unit from Europe. It's roughly the size of one of the small Honda gensets and is an inverter based unit. It's heavier, but gives him more power on taller cranes..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Go for the 170 amp unit, it will be fine for what you want to do.We've got one at work we use for onsite and out of position DC Tig welding. It is the version with HF start so it costs more but it is ideal for our needs.They are a good honest inverter welder with national backup through CIG so I can recommend them highly.Regards Andrew. also from Oz.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPYou should look at the Everlast PowerArc 140, 160 or 200. I think my lunch box weighs more.http://www.everlastgenerators.com/Powerarc.php
Reply:You cannot do any gouging with an inverter ever.Also you probably could have gotten an import welder of same build from a local supplier, as you are closer to the supply source,I'd recheck importer of good reputation near you.Last edited by pistolnoon; 10-12-2011 at 04:17 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by pistolnoonYou cannot do any gouging with an inverter ever.
Reply:Originally Posted by welds4dOK... I gotta ask...why would you want to carry a welding machine up a tower? Why not leave it on the ground and pull up a small welding lead? For the service that you described, it would seem to me that a piece of #4 would be fine for a small, short duration job.
Reply:Originally Posted by Uncle TomI've got to say, lugging 120 plus feet of  #4 up the 60ft tower would weigh a bit more than the right size Inverter and power cable.  Of course pullys and rope could be rigged up to pull welding leads up.  Lots of possible combinations though.
Reply:This pertains to the title of this threadDoes anyone care to comment on whether arc blow is greater with an inverter based machine.  I was welding some two inch pipe (collection, from well to pipeline) which admittedly has been laying on the ground unused since 1980 or so using 7024 and the arc blow was more than I remember on my transformer uinit but not the same pipe on that tranformer unit. 3/16 rods probably around 200 amps which according to printed material isn't supposed to be in the problematic arc blow range.   Lincoln v275s.Whether or not an inverter, a larger onel than previous in this thread can or can not be used for arc air type gouging isn't a never type of thing.  At least for my machine it is approved by the sales dept and discouraged by the engineering dept.  It does work for me when there is too much rust for oxy fuel and creates much less distortion.  Some of the larger inverter welders claim one can parallel two machines and get an awful lot of power for gouging.Fran
Reply:The power profile from an inverter looks stronger than a generator welding machine like a Pipeliner. They actually spike and collapse voltage (power) at the rate of 20,000 times per second which is why the puddle seems so wet and agitated.I'm not sure if that makes them more or less prone to arc blow than a transformer machine but I imagine it would be less.Matt
Reply:Welding lead sizes are based on current.  So the hot leads are typically high current, but low voltage.   High current == heavier cable.  The power lead is typically higher voltage 115 or even 220 and a relatively manageble current.  So by dragging the extension cord you may end of pulling less weight.Thermodyne makes some really really small inverters - like 95 Amps.  I think they would be smaller than the lunchbox.Esab makes some really light weight stuff - typically 220V only - with a good reputation to match.  Their TIG cooler was listed at something like 25 lbs filled with water (not that you need one).  Esab Caddy Arc, about 18 lbs and 200 Amps capable.Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX