Welding Aluminum with Miller Syncrowave 200

admin

Hi guys,First post here.  A little back ground and then the question. My first welding was with act/oxy and coat hangers when I was 22 years old.  I still use it for brazing and sweating at times.  Eventually I got a Lincoln 225 cracker box for stick and about 16 years ago now a MillerMatic 185 MIG.  MIG is about all you need for most automotive work but for some time I have wanted the TIG process and bought a Miller Syncrowave 200.  My first project was stainless and since then a few mild steel things.  Since I am a former Chevy mechanic my sons and I build a few hot rods here and there and I have looked forward to being able to fabricate aluminum and stainless parts.  My first aluminum project was a toe-in gauge for doing front end alignments.  I will just say it works fine for the purpose but the welds are not anything to write home about.  I had no trouble with the 1/8” thick material but the main beam is a very thin 1/16” square tube.  Welding the thick to the thin was difficult for me but I got it done.Here is my main question:I know I need more seat time for starters but I seem to have trouble focusing the arc in A/C at 60hz.  It’s not a problem for me on thicker material but an example of what I want to do is welding in a threaded bung in the tank of an aluminum radiator.  My machine has high frequency start but that drops out once the arc is established.  Do I need high frequency to weld thin gauge aluminum and still have a reasonably sized bead?  I am not opposed to selling this machine and getting an inverter machine if I need to.  I just don’t know what role the high frequency plays in the results of welding thin aluminum and when it becomes a requirement.Thanks in advance,SteveTo each problem exists a solution...Now think!
Reply:Thin AL has been welded with the Sync 200 for many moons.http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/TIGhandbook/Chapter 6 should get you headed in the right directionEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:When doing AC tig, HF should be continuous regardless of thickness. I'm not even sure I can change that with my Sync 200 in AC. I know on the Sync 250's you have to manually change the HF, at least on the older ones.If you need a tighter arc... Be sure the tungsten isn't contaminated. Thats usually the 1st issue I spot with people learning tig, especially those that are trying to jump ahead fast and before they've learned the basics. As soon as you dip, stop and regrind.Tungsten shape and size. If you are running green with a ball, your arc will be larger than with say lantanated and a point with the same size tungsten. Also with thin material, you'll need to possibly drop down in tungsten size.Practice... Practice ... practice... If you don't have the basics down cold on steel, alum is usually a PITA. This becomes progressively more difficult the thinner the alum gets. Everything becomes progressivly more critical. Prep, tungsten size, arc length, heat control and so on. You can get away with a long arc length on say 1/8" and make it work, but you can't on 1/16" and less as easily. Can you do these welds in say stainless or mild steel, perfect every time? If you can't, you'll never have any luck with alum that size regardless of the machine.My guess is that you need a lot more seat time, probably starting with thin steel/stainless. It's a common fault with new tig guys. They don't want to put the time in learning the basics. They want to jump right to what ever they want to do and think they can make it work..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:The manual mentions high frequency start but there is no adjustment for frequency.  Can someone explain to me the advantages of high frequency?  Does HF change arc shape?  What do you see or what can you do with HF that makes it better or at least different than the standard 60hz frequency?  Maybe I just have this stuck in my head but I would like to know from someone that has welded with both.Can I weld mild steel and stainless perfect?  No.  I have no illusions that my tig welds should look like my mig welds at this point.  I joined this site to learn.  I only just now have enough seat time to even begin to ask these questions.  For a while there I spent more time grinding tungsten’s than I did welding.Let’s talk about mild steel.  I seem to have trouble welding too hot.  I have a 3” exhaust system project coming up and I am thinking of tig welding all the joints.  I have practiced a little on some left over 2-1/2” 16ga tubing and while I never blew a hole in it some parts of the weld slumped inside the pipe a little.  That is not good for exhaust flow in a high performance application.  I suppose it just takes seat time but my HAZ was much larger than what I would have had with my MIG welder.  Any tips on reducing HAZ?SteveTo each problem exists a solution...Now think!
Reply:An idea what your settings are, what tungsten and size would help. The more info we get the better the suggestions can be..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:72nova,You need a better understanding of what HF is/does.I'd suggest that you go to Millerwelds.com and click on the resources tab.  There you'll find an offer for their "Student Pack" ($25 including shipping).  This includes an excellent Tig Handbook, a GMAW Handbook, as well as a bunch of other goodies.On your Syncrowave 200, when in AC mode (aluminum) the HF should be continuous.  HF does nothing to change the arc shape (as changing the freq with an inverter does).  It simply maintains the arc as the squarewave transitions from DC- to DC+.  Without the HF on continuous, the arc would "studder" as it passed thru the 0 state.I've welded "thin aluminum" with Syncrowaves for over 30 years and not experienced the problems you're encountering.  Not trying to be a jerk, but lack of seat time/experience is not a valid reason for blaming the machine for what you're having trouble doing.As DSW has already mentioned, using a 2% Lanthanated tungsten, sharpened to a crayon point will help with what you're doing.  The lanthanated tungsten will still form a ball, but it will be much smaller than that found with the pure.  Arc length is critical with thin aluminum.There are things that you can do with an inverter (variable frequency, etc) that can optimize your "bead appearance" but, based on your comments, you're not at a point where that should be a factor.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:HF is used to jump the gap between the tungsten and piece being welded, that way you don't contaminate the tungsten. Adjustable frequency on an inverter allows you to narrow the with of the bead especially in welding a t-joint. Seat time is no joke you should commit yourself to spending 100 hrs of seat time before tackling any projects. Start with 1/8" thick steel and weld in diff joint configuration when you think your doing alright then go thinner and so on . Then you start the process over with SS and then Al.  An inverter has more bells and whistles and most people can't leave them alone and makes learning more difficult.
Reply:Thanks for the advice fellas.  The main purpose for my post was to verify that my machine does not preclude me from welding thin aluminum or that it should only be attempted with this machine by the most experienced tig welders.  I am not trying to blame the machine, only verify.  I think we have established that this machine is perfectly capable of that quest.  The guy at Praxair where I bought it said it was the highest rated machine in its class and I wasn’t trying to save any money but I didn’t want to spend $5,000.00 if I didn’t have too either.  Under what circumstances would you justify the purchase of an expensive inverter machine?  Production shop?  Aerospace work?  What?Broccoli1 and SundownIII, I downloaded the handbook and read it from cover to cover before I ever turned on the machine.  I have referred back to it frequently but like you guys have said it is no substitute for seat time.  SundownIII, on AC, my machine has a rhythm or as you described a stutter that is unlike DCEN when welding mild steel.  I assume this is normal as it flips from pos to neg .  Does the air gap in the machine have anything to do with this?  I have never checked it as it is new.Jay O, I have much less than 100 hours.  I built a box with butt welded outside corners from 18Ga stainless sheet to house a carbon pile for load testing batteries.  Most of it was just fused without filler.  I have only recently started welding thicker mild steel stuff and even those welds are flawed but I have to say the welding process was more enjoyable.  On a fillet weld I have problems with undercut so I agree; I need to practice on thicker material and then move back to thin.  It’s just frustrating because I have been butt welding automotive 20 ga sheet metal for years with my mig and before that I actually stick welded it at times.  I see top automotive fabricators tig welding all the time and I just want to join the club.  I will do whatever I need to do to get there.DSW, I don’t know if I have found any solutions here but at least I have some ideas of what to pay attention too.  I have tried both 3/32” and 1/16” pure and 2% thoriated with both sizes of filler rod.  I have not tried lanthinated.  I have headed the warnings about cleanliness and that is not an issue.  I have to say I have played around with AC balance and don’t notice much difference.  It seems the arc starts out pretty good and progressively wanders.  I noticed the tungsten gets sort of frosty looking so maybe I have it set with too much DCEP.  Based on the handbook, my arc length is way too long if it should be the diameter of the tungsten.  With that length I have trouble dipping the rod without colliding with the tungsten.  I don’t dip so much as I touch the rod to it.  Torch angle is probably not ideal either.  I typically set the machine to around 150 amps on 1/8” flat and use the foot pedal to control the heat.  With aluminum it takes a lot of pedal at first and towards the end I almost can’t get out of it enough.  Maybe I should bring in the pulse control which I have not tried as of yet.I know I am new to tig but I am not a new welder.  I would be considered at best a hobbyist and I know the time spent away from the machine is damaging to my progress.  When I need to weld something I want to be able to just pick it up and weld it.  It is my goal to be at least adequate at this and I am not too proud to accept advice and/or instruction.  I think to reach that goal I need to commit to regular practice and sign up at the community college for a tig class under the watchful eye of an instructor.  They say practice makes permanent and that goes for bad habits as well as good.  You guys have been very helpful and I appreciate your time and council.  I will try to keep you posted on my progress and even throw in a few pictures.Thanks again,SteveLast edited by 72novaproject; 01-04-2011 at 09:51 AM.To each problem exists a solution...Now think!
Reply:Steve,One of the best indicators of proper balance setting on AC is the "etch zone" adjacent to the weld bead.  A large etch zone indicates that you're probably running too high on DC+.  I've found that on new/clean aluminum, that on the Syncrowaves, a balance setting between 7-8 works well.You may wish to try the 2% Lanthanated tungsten.  Takes heat a lot better than the pure.  It will still form a ball, but not as large as the pure.  Also, I've found it doesn't form the series of small ba11s around the tip as the Thorieated does.  Most LWS do not stock it.  I get mine from tungsten-direct via the internet.  I use it on both the transformer and inverter tigs.I wouldn't worry too much about the pulser on aluminum at this time.  I seldom use it on aluminum.  Now thin SS is a different story.  I have used the pulser, with new guys I'm working with, to help develop their dip timing.Comparing mig to tig is a difficult proposition.  Kinda like comparing shooting a rifle to shooting a pistol.  I can leave the rifle in the safe for months at a time, pick it up and still shoot "dang well".  On the other hand, if I don't shoot a pistol pretty regularly, I can quickly see a drop in accuracy.  Tig welding requires not only the knowledge to perform the task, but also the development of the multiple motor skills (muscle training) to do it well.As far as your "point gap settings", if you're getting consistent arc starts in both AC and DC, then your gap setting is probably fine.  I've never had to adjust the points on a new Syncrowave.  Sounds like, what you're experiencing in AC is the normal transition of the wave from DC- to DC+.  The HF will be on continuously as it is needed as the squarewave passes thru the 0 (no current flow) state.  This is happening at 60 cycles/sec.Taking a "tig course" could be beneficial, however, my experience is that there are very few really "good tiggers" teaching welding.  It is amazing though how just a few hours, one on one, with a good tigger can help to shorten the learning curve.  Dallas/FW is a large area.  Possibly there's a good tigger in the area that would be willing to work with you for a bit.  If you were closer, I'd be more than willing to spend a little time with you getting the basics down.As far as "where the inverters shine" that's a whole story in itself.  By increasing the frequency, you're able to better focus the arc.  This can result in deeper penetration and a narrower bead.  I really like and use the high speed pulsing on the Dynasty for welding SS.  All these things are "nice", but remember we've been tig welding materials for years without all these "bells and whistles".  Give me an experienced tigger with a 330 A/BP (sine wave machine) and he'll run circles around a new guy with a Dynasty 350.Last edited by SundownIII; 01-04-2011 at 12:32 PM.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Thanks for the pistol/rifle analogy Sundown.  That helps a lot.  As long as I know my machine is capable, then it’s just a matter of practice.  I will see if my LWS carries lanthinated or order some on the net and give that a try.One more thing.  I have had trouble at times with the filler rod sagging before I get it to the puddle with 1/16" aluminum rod.  I think the tungsten was a bit contaminated, my arc length too long and maybe the torch angle too flat.  Am I on the right track?SteveTo each problem exists a solution...Now think!
Reply:Steve,Probably a combination of all three.Don't think twice about it though.  Everybody starts somewhere.1/16" filler is a real "balancing act" between keeping it out of the heat (before dipping) and still keeping it in the argon covering (to prevent oxidation).BTW:  You CANNOT weld aluminum with a contaminated tungsten.  Stopping and cleaning it up is the only solution.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Some good suggestions from the others here.I will add my 2 cents and try not to repeat too many.AC,H/Freq.continuous,1/16" thoriated or lanthanated tungsten,ground to a nice point,blunt slightly.Balance set more towards clean,tight arc.Teach yourself to feed rod with your fingers so you can keep the working end of filler close to your work.Its too hard to dab rod with any precision with a foot of rod dancing around,especially with small dia. rod.One thing new tiggers seem to do with light gauge alum. is try to weld too cold and heat the whole part before getting a puddle or weld going.You can control your heat quite a bit with your rod.Also set flowmeter@20 and use large enough cup.I like to use a gas lens.hope this helps.
Reply:Originally Posted by 72novaprojectThe manual mentions high frequency start but there is no adjustment for frequency.  Can someone explain to me the advantages of high frequency?  Does HF change arc shape?  What do you see or what can you do with HF that makes it better or at least different than the standard 60hz frequency?  Maybe I just have this stuck in my head but I would like to know from someone that has welded with both.Can I weld mild steel and stainless perfect?  No.  I have no illusions that my tig welds should look like my mig welds at this point.  I joined this site to learn.  I only just now have enough seat time to even begin to ask these questions.  For a while there I spent more time grinding tungsten’s than I did welding.Let’s talk about mild steel.  I seem to have trouble welding too hot.  I have a 3” exhaust system project coming up and I am thinking of tig welding all the joints.  I have practiced a little on some left over 2-1/2” 16ga tubing and while I never blew a hole in it some parts of the weld slumped inside the pipe a little.  That is not good for exhaust flow in a high performance application.  I suppose it just takes seat time but my HAZ was much larger than what I would have had with my MIG welder.  Any tips on reducing HAZ?Steve
Reply:Since everyone else added their 2c, I just couldn't resist... You got a lot of good advice on aluminum, I just want to add:1) Balance - take Sundown's advice.  75% is common starting point.2) The filler must be the right diameter.  With steel you can get away with too small of a filler (just dab more), with aluminum, you will never get the filler close to puddle because it will melt away.  Make the trip to the LWS and get the right size.With steel.You do understand how the pedal works?  You set the maximum amperage on the machine based on the material you are welding - for 16 gauge, 65 Amps should do it.  Most people set it a bit higher - like 75 or even 80 and throttle back with the pedal.  With the pedal floored, you get 75 or 80 amps (depending on the machine setting) and it tapers back to 5Amps just before it cuts out as you lift off the pedal.As you weld, control the puddle size by travel speed and pedal.  Most people just lift off the pedal a bit if the steel is getting too hot (puddle too big or dropping out) - there are those (hint: not me) who can just go faster.  Remember, as you weld the material you weld is getting hotter and requires less heat.  As you get near the edge, there is even less place for the heat to go, lift even higher.Steel requires less shielding gas - lower cfh, and smaller cups - than aluminum.On steel, try a smaller filler rod.  Its easier to dip a .035 filler into a small puddle than it is to dip a 1/16.On 16 gauge steel, you should be able to do it with a .040 tungsten (Lanthicated, Ceriated or rare earth).  Smaller tungsten seem to start the arc better and can keep the arc going at lower amps.  Gives you a wider range of control.  That being said, I've always used water cooled torches and you might need to watch the top end of the .040 tungsten.  As you weld you can keep an eye on the tungsten.  There are warning signs before it burns off.Consider buying gas lenses for the torch you have.  Gas lenses allow for a longer stickout and makes everything easier to see.Depending on your eyesight, consider buying cheater lenses for the welding helmet.  Basically reading glasses.  According to an optometrist I talked to yesterday, if your say, 45 years old, and your eye sight is 20/20 (good at seeing things far away), 1.5 diopter is about right.  I'm in that boat and have been using 1 diopter.  Along the same lines, a good autodarkening helmet.  Besides, when you are laying on your back welding on your car that is on jackstands, flipping a helmet is not always an option.The one skill that will improve your welding the best is learning how to feed the rod.As for technique.  TIG is a step and repeat process.  Try counting slowly in your head 1-2-3-4...9-10-1-2-3-4 and get into a rythm.  I find a cycle time of about 1 and 1/2 second easiest.  I can do 1 second but not for long (need to practice feeding more)As for touching the tungsten with the filler - use the right size filler, dip right near the edge, or move the torch to the back edge of the puddle.  Search the internet for videos and you will see some do a step forward, half step back, dip, step forward... etc.Last edited by con_fuse9; 01-06-2011 at 07:03 PM.Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX
Reply:[QUOTE=Donald Branscom;456761]This is why people need to take welding classes.I will answer your questions.When you weld aluminum the machine needs to be set on HF continuous.The HF is what cleans the oxides away by alternating the sinewave. ACMaybe you should take your own advice Mr. Branscom! Yes the OP will need to use continuous HF with his Syncrowave 200 because of the design of the machine. HF does not alternate the AC waveform or clean the oxides, it allowes the arc to be started without touching the electrode to the work and keeps the arc stable. The electrode positive side of the AC waveform provides the cleaning action.Steve, Hit your local Library and check out the books they have in GTAW welding. Also like Sundown said get the student pack you will really like it.Here is a good article; http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...n-AC-controls/Miller Resources: http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...ur-skills/tig/
Reply:I was going to comment on Donald Branscom's comment about HF "cleaning" but WELDWADE beat me to it.As weldwade noted, HF doesn't have a dang thing to do with the cleaning effect in AC welding.  It's the DC+ portion of the wave that does the cleaning.Donald.  You've been spouting your BS on WW for quite some time.  I've already had to correct your BS in another of your 3 posts on Millerwelds.You know just enough to be dangerous to less informed welders.Last edited by SundownIII; 01-07-2011 at 02:35 AM.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:i was just wondering if anybody had the picture of beads that is used to lain on aluminum using a syncrowave 200 machine. i was been debating with one of the dallas auto repair shops mechanic on what welder i am going to purchase. i am looking for some pictures and some info on how well it can weld on aluminum. i have tried searching, but got no luck. i apologize for posting in this topic. thanks in advance.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIII was going to comment on Donald Branscom's comment about HF "cleaning" but WELDWADE beat me to it.As weldwade noted, HF doesn't have a dang thing to do with the cleaning effect in AC welding.  It's the DC+ portion of the wave that does the cleaning.Donald.  You've been spouting your BS on WW for quite some time.  I've already had to correct your BS in another of your 3 posts on Millerwelds.You know just enough to be dangerous to less informed welders.
Reply:Originally Posted by WrenchtamerI'm glad I was not the only one thinking this.  CWI?  Gas lens on aluminum?  Yikes.
Reply:On the HAZ front, my limited experience is that TIG is upside down.If you try to decrease the width of the HAZ by using as little pedal (or finger) as possible, you end up heating the work more than you needed to.  If, instead, you go very hot, you need to also go very fast.  Keeping the puddle moving quickly down the joint seems to be the key to minimizing heat input.  Trouble is, without all the practice that everyone is recommending, it is easy to go really hot and really slow, which is worse.
Reply:Originally Posted by nextoi was just wondering if anybody had the picture of beads that is used to lain on aluminum using a syncrowave 200 machine. i was been debating with one of the dallas auto repair shops mechanic on what welder i am going to purchase. i am looking for some pictures and some info on how well it can weld on aluminum. i have tried searching, but got no luck. i apologize for posting in this topic. thanks in advance.
Reply:It's the Indian. Not the arrowHTP Invertig 201Lincoln Idealarc SP250Miller 180 AC StickBy farmall:They should have held the seagull closer to the work, squeezing evenly for best deposition.
Reply:Originally Posted by fordmanIt's the Indian. Not the arrow