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i would like to find out how good this setup is.ive read that it cuts faster and cleaner than acetylene and i think its cheaper[3.44 for 87 in upstate ny] but i wanted acual testimony from users.thanks.lincoln weld pak 100 hdlincoln ranger 225gxt ac/dcoxy/acetylenepuroxcw202 victor fc100harris model 85harrismodel 16oxweld w24roxweld w17
Reply:It all cuts the same, once you have the material at the correct temp and began cutting you can turn your fuel gas off.  I have noticed that acetylene seem to bring the steel up to temp faster during preheat heat prior to cutting.
Reply:how bout the cost. does a 10 gallon can last like a 145cubic ft acetylene tank?lincoln weld pak 100 hdlincoln ranger 225gxt ac/dcoxy/acetylenepuroxcw202 victor fc100harris model 85harrismodel 16oxweld w24roxweld w17
Reply:Originally Posted by Josh FlynnIt all cuts the same, once you have the material at the correct temp and began cutting you can turn your fuel gas off.  I have noticed that acetylene seem to bring the steel up to temp faster during preheat heat prior to cutting.
Reply:I wouldn't say it cuts cleaner. It's usually used for demo where cut quality is nil and speed and capacity is king. We had one for demo use, but usually never used it, we'd stick to O/A. O/A or oxy/propane is more versitile. Cut, heat, weld/braze vs just cut. It's a pecialized tool for specialized jobs. If it gave you a cleaner, faster cut, you see it used more on things like CNC burning tables..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Oxy/propane is *the* way to go for cut quality, low gas cost, and tip longevity. Acetylene tips always clog up but the 2-part propane tips seem to last a real long time.
Reply:Originally Posted by NiteskyNo.  It doesn't cut the same (as conventional oxy-fuel).  With Petrogen you can cut through an entire spring pack of 5 leafs. . . .
Reply:I asked my welding instructor this evening.  He said that a representative from Petrogen stopped by on his way through and looked at it.  Turns out there was a poor seal (not an o-ring but the mating surface).  He changed the part and all is well.I asked if they will put on a demonstration again.  Will see the BA about it and see.Gordie -- "I believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Reply:nice. i guess it has its uses but not so much in the fabricating dept. oxy/acetylene obviously most versatile and expensive!!.thanks for the infolincoln weld pak 100 hdlincoln ranger 225gxt ac/dcoxy/acetylenepuroxcw202 victor fc100harris model 85harrismodel 16oxweld w24roxweld w17
Reply:Originally Posted by NiteskyNo.  It doesn't cut the same.  With Petrogen you can cut through an entire spring pack of 5 leafs.  You can stack 10 layers of 1/2" flatbar and cut right through them all from top to bottom.That is -- In the hands of the guy demonstrating it.Our Ironworker hall bought one to train us with.  The instructor runs the welding class at our College.  He could NOT get this thing to work right no matter how many time he viewed the video - read the instructions - phoned the help line - changed tips, etc.It now sits neglected out back in the shed.  No good no how.Will have to ask and see what they want for it LOL
Reply:Originally Posted by Josh FlynnIt all cuts on the same principle, fuel gas (acetylene, propane) heats the steel and compressed gas blows the molten metal away.  As far as clean cuts go it has little to do with the fuel gas you choose, because like most cutting and welding operations it comes down to what is in between the shoulder and the holder (torch).   Propane is great for preheating and PWHT during the welding process as much of its heat comes from the outer flame.  Acetylene on the other hand has more heat in the inner flame and most cutting is done with a reasonably close tip to work distance. Be it free hand or machine.  Propane would be a good choose for just heating operations.  But what if you won’t to weld with you oxy/fuel set up, even though the Propane tip has a far higher BTU output you still will not get a good weld. The reason Propane (and other fuels) are not suitable is that when Acetylene is burning with Oxygen it creates a cone of CO2 forming a shielding gas over the weld puddle. Propane does not produce shielding CO2.  Propane is capable as well as acetylene to cut material much thicker than 5" with good preformance.   But I guess your right we will have to find out what he needs it for first.
Reply:Originally Posted by NiteskyActually, with oxy-propane or acetylene the fuel is for preheating the metal you are burning.  When you are making the burn you can shut off the fuel and keep on burning with only the oxygen because the chemical reaction is taking place outside the torch head and beyond the end of the tip.With the Petrogen a chemical reaction takes place inside the torch head and a jet of burning fuel goes down through the center of the flame,  It is this jet that does the cutting.  You do not even have to heat up the metal, just pull the trigger, touch the flame to the metal and you are cutting instantly.- No high pressure unstable fuel gas.- No expensive tank rental.- Safer to use.- Safer in the even of a leak.- Very, very little slag if any at all.We have some mines around here that ONLY allow Petrogen underground because of the extra safety alone.  That is why the Ironworkers bought one for our training.
Reply:Petrogen videos are here:http://www.petrogen.com/page.asp?id=12It is impressive for sure.  I still prefer acetylene but this is good for cutting only.Gordie -- "I believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Reply:Originally Posted by Nitesky. . .With the Petrogen a chemical reaction takes place inside the torch head and a jet of burning fuel goes down through the center of the flame,  It is this jet that does the cutting.  You do not even have to heat up the metal, just pull the trigger, touch the flame to the metal and you are cutting instantly. . . .
Reply:I just may have the details wrong.  I questioned my instructor just last night and that is how I heard it.Oxy-fuel actually burns the metal and the chemical reaction takes place on and in the metal itself.Oxy-petrol - the gasoline is liquid in the hose and is vapourized in the torch head.  The flame is burning and it actually cuts (not burns) steel.Evaporating liquid fuel creates a cooling effect that allows you to handle the torch head with bare hands.I am not a fan of this thing at all.  Just have something to offer that relates to the thread.Gordie -- "I believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepThere's the answer then. Oxy-gasoline may cut half as well as oxy-(conventional) fuel, which would take on at least ten spring leaves, on a bet of course. -------------IMHO - Overpriced fussy gimmick with no advantages. Thus the many dust-collecting sets around.Good LuckEdit - Ooops, I posted in the wrong thread. There's another oxy-gasoline thread simmering. Oh well, the topic and my reply's the same.
Reply:Looks to be another boutique fire/rescue product, and is priced accordingly even for the small ones:http://www.allhandsfire.com/PETROGEN...CUTTING-SYSTEMThat much cash will buy lots of nice cutting gear and the gases to feed it.
Reply:Wow, I see some off the cuff comments made about oxy gasoline, and frankly I think it is because people are uneducated, and have little to no experience with the process. I was lucky, rather, spoiled to have access to one of these oxy gasoline cutting setups, to be brand specific, Petrogen, which is "MADE IN USA", not china like most junk oxy acetylene torch kits that have flooded the market, that the majority of first time buyers get sucked into buying.This unit does/is:*Determined suitable for use in all mines by Mine Safety & Health Admin. (MSHA)*Complies with OSHA requirements*Approved by the U.S. Navy and the U.S. Coast Guard for on-board ship use*Included in FEMA Equipment Cache*Hailed as a "technology triumph" and actively endorsed by the U.S. Dept. of EnergyAs I became familiar with the process I started to realize its enormous potential, not to mention its enormous capabilities and cost savings. I think before there are any uneducated comments about the "SAFETY" of this process, one should read the following!The oxy-gasoline torch is fueled by a mixture of gasoline and oxygen. The gasoline tank is pressurized using either the hand pump that is built into the tank, or by connecting it to an external source of compressed air. The liquid gasoline and oxygen are delivered to the torch   hoses. Control valves on the torch adjust the flow of oxygen and liquid gasoline to a cone shaped mixer in the head of the torch. Up to the point where the gasoline enters the mixer, it is in a liquid state. Because liquid gasoline cannot burn, backflash up the fuel line is prevented. A wick inside the mixer serves to disperse the gasoline evenly throughout the mixer and contributes to an even flame. The mixture is forced through to the tip of the torch where it is lit. A few seconds after the fuel mixture is lit, the tip of the torch begins to heat up and becomes sufficiently hot to vaporize the oxygen/liquid gasoline mixture. The rapid expansion produces a high-velocity stream of the vaporized gasoline and oxygen that is ejected from the tip of the torch and provides a strong force to the cutting flame. Vaporization of the gasoline is an endothermic process that helps to prevent the tip of the torch from overheating and extends its lifeThe oxy-gasoline torch relies on 100% oxidation to cut through metal, rather than on melting. The torch oxidizes steel to a granular slag that is blown out of the cut by the force of the flame. The force and momentum of the gasoline vapor (about four times denser than acetylene) drive the fuel deep into the cut where it continues to burn and oxidize the metal. This enables the oxy-gasoline torch to cut through thicker metal easier and faster than other oxy-fuel torches (including the oxy-acetylene torch) and produces a clean cut with minimal kerf. The granular slag is also less likely to clog the tip of the torch during cutting, unlike the molten steel produced by other torches. In contrast, the oxy-acetylene torch depends on a combination of oxidation (about 70%) and melting (about 30%) to cut metal and is slower because some of the molten metal re-solidifies and has to be recut. This produces cuts with considerable kerf and rough edgesThe oxy-acetylene torch cuts steel using a combined process of oxidation (about 70%) and melting (about 30%). Oxidation produces a granular slag of iron oxide that is blown from the cut. Melting produces a rough kerf along the edges of the cut, and in metal thicknesses greater than 1 inch, some of the molten steel solidifies before the cut is complete and has to be re-cut. This slows the cutting speed of the oxyacetylene torch. The oxy-gasoline torch oxidizes the metal 100% to a granular slag that is blown from the cut. In addition, gasoline vapor is four times as dense as acetylene vapor and continues burning down the cutting jet for a longer distance than acetylene. This allows the flame to penetrate deeper into the cut and the oxygasoline torch is therefore able to cut greater thicknesses of steel easier and faster than the oxyacetylene torch, and it leaves smoother edges along the cut. The oxy-acetylene torch is ineffective in cutting through rusted surfaces because the steel is already oxidized (to rust) and the cutting process then relies on the torch melting through the surface. The oxygasoline torch is able to oxidize the rust (iron oxide) even further (to ferroso-ferric oxide), thereby cutting through the rusted surface. The oxy-acetylene torch produces molten steel during cutting. When it is used to cut steel that is in contact with masonry, the molten steel rapidly transfers heat to the masonry causing it to expand quickly and shatter, posing a projectile hazard to workers. The granular slag produced by the oxy gasoline torch has a lower thermal capacity and heat transfer rate than molten steel and does not cause this problemThe pressurized gasoline tank developed by Petrogen, the industry leader, has been tested and approved by the Underwriter’s Laboratory. Safety features that have been built into the tank include a fill cap that integrates a pressure relief valve, and a check valve inside the tank that stops the flow of gasoline if the hose ruptures and a sudden surge in the flow is detected. Liquid gasoline is safer to handle than pressurized acetylene gas. In its liquid form, gasoline will neither burn nor explode. Acetylene can burn even in the absence of oxygen, and will explode if subjected to high temperature, excessive pressure or shock. After all, there is gasoline tanks, not acetylene tanks, on almost all cars and trucks!! Acetylene has a notoriously large explosive range of 2.5% to 85%, the highest of all common fuel gases, even much more then HYDROGEN!!!! Gasoline is a mere 1.5% to 7.6%. On a explosive scale, its like saying nitroglycerine in safer then fire crackers!THINK CONFINED SPACES?!!!! The oxy-gasoline torch is inherently safe because its design keeps the gasoline in a stable, liquid state as it moves from the tank, through the hose, through the torch and into the tip of the torch. Because liquid gasoline cannot burn, backflash up the fuel line is impossible. The tank also has a check valve that senses surges in the flow of gasoline and immediately stops the flow if the fuel line ruptures. If the acetylene line ruptures, the gas could escape undetected and could result in an explosion.The oxy-gasoline torch produces a granular slag that has a lower thermal capacity than molten steel. This significantly reduces sparking and popping that are characteristic of the oxy-acetylene torch, and reduces the risk of fire and injury to the operatorThe oxy-gasoline torch produces carbon dioxide (colorless) and water (emitted as white translucent steam) during cutting. In addition to carbon dioxide and water, the oxy acetylene torch produces highly toxic carbon monoxide, as well as carbon, which is emitted as a black sooty smoke, particularly when lit. THINK CONFINED SPACES?!!! The oxy-gasoline torch cutting system (including gasoline tank, fuel and oxygen) is more portable than the oxy-acetylene system. A full cylinder of acetylene gas weighs about 250 pounds. A full tank of gasoline holds 2.5 gallons, weighs about 30 pounds, and will cut about the same amount of steel as the 250-pound cylinder of acetylene. The oxy-propane torch operates in the same manner as the oxy-acetylene torch. Propane is much cheaper than acetylene (but more expensive than gasoline) and is readily available. It is also somewhat safer than acetylene but not as safe as gasoline. The oxy-propane torch, however, uses about 25-30% more oxygen than the oxy-acetylene and the oxy-gasoline torches, and its cutting performance is inferior to both. The following informations and direct from Petrogen's website. Find me a oxy acetylene torch that does this!PETROGEN cuts steel fast, and the thicker the steel, the faster the cuts compared to other cutting fuels.PETROGEN jumps air gaps and cuts through layers with ease. Also slices smoothly through dirty, painted or rusted steel quickly and without excessive popping. Even cuts concrete-backed steel without exploding the concrete!PETROGEN punches clean, straight holes. The PETROGEN flame carries the heat all the way down the cut, so holes can be punched fast and deep. This torch pierces 1" plate like a drill hole, and punches through a 10-inch shaft in under a minute without moving the tip.The PETROGEN System can make cuts that are impossible using acetylene or propane:12-inch mild steel shaft in 3 minutes.4-inch manganese steel dipper tooth shank in less than 1 minute.10-gauge steel at 51 inches per minute.Railroad rail in 40 seconds.11-inch armor plate at 6-1/2" per minute.10-inch thick wall of nuclear service tank at 7" per minute.Cement coated pipe; a fast clean bevel in a single pass.1-inch mild steel plate at 22" per minute.Straight hole through 10-inch armor plate in 50 seconds.And all these cuts were accomplished without having to pre-heat the steel. The PETROGEN flame completely oxidizes the steel and does not weld.PLUS:Keeps cutting while buried in sand, dirt and mud.Performs well on some alloy steels and cast irons.No carbon monoxide generated.Elimination of fuel-line backflashes creates operator confidence, resulting in increased productivity. "This technology reduced the hazard associated with the baseline technology (oxygen/acetylene cutting torches), including the ability to use the oxy-gasoline torch in confined spaces."  WM'03 Conference on New Technologies Used at the World Trade Center"The oxy-gasoline torch cutting system is easier to use and operate than the oxy-acetylene torch. It generates less airborne contamination and poses less risk to workers and the environment."  Innovative Technology Summary Report,  (1998) U.S. Dept. of Energy"Up against the baseline oxyacetylene torch, the oxygasoline torch cut thick metal faster and cleaner with less slag generated and no occurrences of the metal material re-fusing after the pass."  Dept. of Energy Tank Remediation Bulletin"Based on San Francisco's report on the torch of a high degree of safety, coupled with good performance, it is considered an acceptable alternate for the acetylene-fueled cutting torches specified for shipboard use."  Dept. of the Navy, Bureau of Ships, Washington D.C."The oxy-gasoline torch reduces costs by its more effective operation. The cost of operating supplies is lower.  The system is safer because of the impossibility of backflash and because of the visual identification of leaks. The system can expedite building dismantling effort at other D.O.E. and commercial sites."  Federal Energy Technology Center (FETC) 3/98"It's definitely a timesaver in a lot of ways. It provides "instant heat," whereas the acetylene torch can take a while to heat up. It's four or five times faster. The thicker the metal, the more noticeable the speed increase..."  Jim Childers and Mike Mickelsen, Lockheed Martin @ Idaho National Engineering & Environmental Labs. (INEEL)Hopefully his will dis-spell any stupid myths about this wonderful quality made in the USA tool that pays for itself. Sure it has a higher investment cost, but think long run return on investment. This tool pays you to use it, and its SAFER! The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is gone. Attached Images
Reply:wow.ican cut rail in35.harris model16#4 tiplincoln weld pak 100 hdlincoln ranger 225gxt ac/dcoxy/acetylenepuroxcw202 victor fc100harris model 85harrismodel 16oxweld w24roxweld w17
Reply:You asked a question, I gave a more then detailed answer, and you reply with a factious reply. Why? If your harris model16 with a #4 tip does what you need, cutting rail in 35 seconds, why did you waste peoples time asking questions about the process? Your comment does not make a very good argument. The oxy acetylene process is what it is, and the oxy gasoline process is what it is. You asked, I answered. Apples and Oranges.
Reply:Originally Posted by WeldorYou asked a question, I gave a more then detailed answer, and you reply with a factious reply. Why? If your harris model16 with a #4 tip does what you need, cutting rail in 35 seconds, why did you waste peoples time asking questions about the process?. . .
Reply:Denrep, It seems to me that the response is factious, as he has already stated that he had read about it, and how it cuts faster and cleaner, which is stated in HIS first post. Second to that, if he had read about that, LIKE HE STATED, he would of seen multiple reports stating cutting times, therefor he would of already believed his choice of cutting torch to be superb to oxy gasoline by his cutting time of the rail being faster the Petrogens, which would make the point of asking about it completely void and null. Even if he had timed cutting a section of rail track, how could this be compared to Petrogens cutting test, as there is no direct way of him knowing if the test was done on 37KG/METER track or 76.9KG/METER track or every other rail weight in between. Obviously there is nearly twice as much material on the heavier rail section, which would obviously cause the cutting time to be easily doubled if not more as more material requires more preheat input to heat rise to kindling temperature. The above information was the source of my belief that his response was of a unscientific nature, furthermore highlighting the factious origin of the response.So, obviously I took the 35 second response as factious as there is absolutely no scientific grounds to make such a claim as there are too many variables that are UNKNOWN i.e rail section weight and dimensions, rail metallurgical composition, ambient rail temperature, metallurgical heat treatment of the rail and etc etc.Ranger225, I apologize for my abrupt take on your response. I took your response strongly as mockery. I am sorry, I am just trying to be as unbiased as I can, to provide a true and accurate answerDenrep, If you can cut rail track in 17.5 seconds "half of his 35"  without even knowing the KG/section of the rail, which directly relates to the physical dimensions and not to mention every other variable, as you stated you easily believe can be done, every rail road company in the world would be knocking at your door begging you to work for them. And sense Petrogen could only do it in 40 seconds with a cutting process that is proven faster then oxy acetylene, especially on heavy sections, they might be interested in you to do there tests, because you must be the worlds fastest torch cutter. Remember, your cutting time includes preheat and rise to kindling temperature, as Petrogen's test was from a cold start.Further more, if you could easily half the cutting time of the rail cutting test, as you stated you believe is possible, then you must be believe you can pierce a straight hole through 10-inch armor plate in 25 seconds with no preheat, as it took Petrogen 50 seconds with no preheat.Here is a very detailed REPORT from a non bias regulating body in which oxy acetylene and oxy gasoline is tested in a non bias report over a multitude of variables. The findings are clear, oxy gasoline has marked advantages over oxy acetylene in nearly all cases. I suggest you read the report and digest the information carefully, its findings are clear and concise.http://www.petrogen.com/library/docu...y%20Report.pdfCase closed.
Reply:So what's REAL WORLD low ball price on a Petrogen, today? That factors into any economy calculations.By the way, to me, 35 seconds seems very slow for repeated cuts. I believe the time could easily be halved with conventional oxy-fuel.
Reply:wow,i just was wondering how peoples acual experience with the oxypetrol.no matter what i wouldnt have it anyway, had and have used oxy/acetylene 4 a long time and i never timed myself cutting a rail, just know i can do it quickly and clean.my simple question turned into 2 days of post that ran on tangents between 5 other people, i just wanted to add some humor.the thing has its uses,just not to versatile from what ive gathered.i live in the adirondack park,lots or railroad, big old farm equiptment, and numerous scrap yards,one right here. never saw one in use except on the web thats why i was curious. when i get an sd card for this wii, i will upload some video of somecuts on big material. another simple question i had was how efficient of a process is it compared to acetylene pricewise .case nobody read, i wrote that we pay almost 4$ a gallon up here.how long does a 10 gallon cantainer of gas last compared to 150cf of acetylene when you doing lots of cutting on steel over 1inch thick????.i dont care that you can grab the head of that petro torch aftes cuttin 15 leaf springs, why would you anyway???.its about the money and cost benefits,thats alllincoln weld pak 100 hdlincoln ranger 225gxt ac/dcoxy/acetylenepuroxcw202 victor fc100harris model 85harrismodel 16oxweld w24roxweld w17
Reply:I've used one of these torches, don't remember why, unless it was to cut some of the 2" thick cast cable plow parts, the company I worked for back then, made. Its been about 25 years and I only used it for about a day or two .The owner had me go to a storage area and get the "gasoline" cutting torch. I remember the gas can reminded me of the old gas lanterns that you had to pump up. I seem to remember that when you turn the fuel on you could see wavy fumes? like acetylene has at the tip. It lit, cut, and performed like a regular torch except you just had to stop every so often and pump it back up. He said they used to use it on railroad salvage work.Hi Ranger225, sorry If I came off a little strong, I just don't understand why this very useful and effective process has such astigmatism. Its been around for over 33 years, if not more, its not going anywhere, its not fly by night, and its defiantly not snake oil.This is from Petrogen's website,Petrogen fuel is ordinary gasoline, available at any gasoline station in the world.  You will always have a ready supply of fuel for cutting. The Petrogen torch is the cheapest for you to operate, and can actually pay for itself many times over each year.Our systems have an extremely long life cycle, remaining in service for decades.  The initial purchase just keeps on saving time and money for many years to come.Savings in the FuelIn the Petrogen system, 2.5 gallons of gasoline will cut as much steel as 250 cubic feet of acetylene!  A steady cutting job can easily use 200 cubic feet of acetylene per day, while the same job could be done with 2 gallons of regular gasoline, plus your usual oxygen. That's about $8.00 worth of cutting fuel compared to $90 to $130 for acetylene.  Petrogen works with any type of gasoline, even 10% ethanol fuel.Savings in Tip LifePetrogen tips never clog.  The Petrogen flame oxidizes all steel, and no molten steel means no clogged tips.  With a little care, a Petrogen tip can last for years.  Acetylene tips are clogged by molten steel.  An operator can lose 2 tips per week.  In a year that can cost over $1,000.Savings Through Increased ProductivityAcetylene outperforms propane, but gasoline far outperforms acetylene.  High performance means more work done in less time.  That's money in the bank.  Because of Petrogen's unequaled performance, Petrogen can make the different between doing the job easily and not doint it at all.  The money saved here can vary depending on the job, but it will always be significant.Savings in Oxygen ConsumptionSwitching from acetylene to propane saves fuel costs but increases oxygen consumption over 30%.  With Petrogen there is no increase in oxygen use, and the work gets done much faster. Petrogen operates with PSA oxygen of 90% purity without loss of performance, and works with as low as 80% purity with reduced efficiency. Other oxy fuel torches require  99% purity.This is from a farming website down in Australia, it takes about savings,The cost of this non-pressure oxy-petrol welding & cutting system, may look high at first glance, but the equipment is well made and with proper use will last for years.It will pay for itself on a farm for example within the first year.At the time of writing , a large bottle of acetylene costs $332.00 plus $176.00 I yr rental of the bottle.So $508.00 is a large part of the asking price of this system.You still need the oxygen bottle. Plus its rent.At the time of writing a reasonable gas cutting/welding kit for acetylene or LPG is around $350.00So a bottle of acetylene & the equipment to go with it, is very near the price of the petrol/oxy system.To give some idea of running costs.One bottle of acetylene is equivalent to about 3 liters of petrol ……$332 as compared to about $5.00One bottle of LPG is equivalent to 3 liters of petrol ….. $85.00 as compared to $5.00I can say from my own experience, If I was to start my own welding business, these would be in my shop and on my trucks. They just make sense. The out perform traditional oxy-fuel setups 10 to 1 in safety, operating cost, and cutting ability. Take a look at the rebar bundle on my first post, try that with any other setup. Like most things in life, quality costs more, but it pays for itself later.
Reply:The problem with this is it's a cutting system. It's great for cuts, thats what we had one for. It cuts things and  can be used in places that O/A won't. However it's not so good for other things, say heating large areas to bend stuff back into place. For that a rosebud and oxy/propane or Acet (if you have a big enough cyl) would be a better choice. It's not very often that I only needed to cut.If I was scrapping ships / railcars etc, cutting heavy steel and rebar in demo's etc a petrogen torch would make a lot of sense. Like most tools, you need the correct tool to do the job eficiently. I'm sure I could weld up body pannels on my car with an SA 200, but a 110v mig would be a better choice for that particular job..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:DSW,I agree 100% with you when you say the right tool for the right job, but I think the point of this discussion was about torch cutting as that is what we are referring too. If we needed to heat up something big to bend it back, I would use the right tool for the job, I would fire up our induction heating equipment or electrical resistance heating equipment, or even the treating oven. Well actually if I had a part that was bent from use, I would carefully examen that part, find the method of failure, redesign it as we need to assume if a part has yielded and therefore it has failed in its original design and was either improperly designed, under-built, abused, or simply it has exceeded its designed life cycle. When we build something, usually its fabricated so we don't need to bend it to make it work, through proper welding procedures, proper fitting and jigging, proper fabrication with the best suited material and careful pre heating and inter pass temperature control with proper weld heat treating requirements, our products are nearly dead on with no need for heating and bending. Therefore for torch cutting shapes from heavy steel plate stock, this torch works AMAZING.My point is everyone has different requirements, different tools and different methodology.To dismiss one method over other may work for that one person, or that on case, but It may work perfect for someone else. For our needs, this torch works wonders, as we only ever used torches for cutting, simple as that. For your needs it is not sufficient. The right tool for the job is simple speculative, every person has different tools, different opinions of the right tool for the job and most importantly different theories on how to complete a job. So ultimately, the only person who can give this process a thumbs up is the person who can utilize it for there maximum benefit.
Reply:. . . I just don't understand why this very useful and effective process has such astigmatism. . . .
Reply:17 out of 18 Vietnamese monks gave a thumbsup to the gasoline torch.  The 18th recovered from his burns................"it smells like victory"..............(quote from famous actor, wearing a silly cavalry hat, while walking thru a rain of incoming mortar fire with little concern for personal safety, as Martin Sheen walked around looking dark and menacing)Seems the protagonist here has little experience with the equipment in question, direct quotes from the Petrogen Manifesto notwithstanding.It is my firm belief that the gasoline cutting torch is a cleverly disguised terrorist weapon.  I hold the same opinion of the Honda automobile, which I feel is Japanese retribution for the Hiroshima affair.  Both, in my opinion, equally deadly to those who come into contact with these deadly artifices.IMHO (the universal middle finger, with gentlemanly restraint)"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:WHILE WE'RE AT IT, WOULD SOMEONE GRAB THEIR CUTTING RIG AND CUT THIS MACHINE OUTTA THIS TREE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammWHILE WE'RE AT IT, WOULD SOMEONE GRAB THEIR CUTTING RIG AND CUT THIS MACHINE OUTTA THIS TREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply:It will pay for itself on a farm for example within the first year
Reply:Originally Posted by WeldorHi Ranger225, sorry If I came off a little strong, I just don't understand why this very useful and effective process has such astigmatism. Its been around for over 33 years, if not more, its not going anywhere, its not fly by night, and its defiantly not snake oil.This is from Petrogen's website,Petrogen fuel is ordinary gasoline, available at any gasoline station in the world.  You will always have a ready supply of fuel for cutting. The Petrogen torch is the cheapest for you to operate, and can actually pay for itself many times over each year.Our systems have an extremely long life cycle, remaining in service for decades.  The initial purchase just keeps on saving time and money for many years to come.
Reply:Denrep, Yes, I also make mistakes when writing, and exploiting a spelling error is behavior I would expect from a 12 year old, but then ranting on about it and laughing.... may I suggest you need to mature so your sense of humor becomes, well, sensible. I see you could not make a intelligent remark to my comment on your outrageous cutting time belief, so you pick on my spelling and grammar. I see that is a tactic of yours from other posts you have made in the past. Well done, and oh yes, GOOD LUCKFarmersamm, I am by far not the most experienced man alive and I have never claimed that, and that is why I joined this online community and why I am always striving to continuously further my skills, knowledge, educations and the art of welding. I also will not claim my credentials, qualifications or experience, nor have any need to prove my worthiness to you, or anyone else on this forum for that matter. I also feel that quoting and promoting Petrogen's material is fair, as I agree with everything they advertise and promote, and feel that the process is really that well developed and matured enough to recommended it without fear of wrong promotion. I joined this community so I could learn or help others learn, thus giving back to this wonderful art. If you read my earlier posts, you would understand I have used the tool for a duration of time and in a mixture of situations, that make me feel I am qualified and suitable to make a opinion, and that was on a nuclear quality production job where top quality and control was of the highest importance. Therefore I cannot make a comment on how it could be utilized on a farm, but from what I have seen most farmers are limited financially, which would most likely lead to their objection to this system, which in my eyes is also a factor in the lack of preventative maintenance and lack of quality repairs and or fabricating, that happens on some farms which leads to some serious accidents and even deaths in the farming communities. That is a unfortunate reality, because if that mind set was reversed, and the short term cost forgotten on the cost of equipment, repairs or material, allot of people would see economics from another point of view and realize potential savings which MAY save money, allot of headaches and even the loss of life.The cost of the system is quoted on request and pricing depends of factors, I suggest you ask them, and not me. However, I think your earlier reply suggests that you might not have a use for this kind of process or simply cannot afford to purchase the system due to your financial and/or economic situation. I understand the economy in your U.S.A is not doing the best based on historic averages, so I can understand your worries with cost during your current slump.I also believe that your use of words is offensive and unnecessary. Making a racial/religious based joke is uncalled for, and only serves to highlight your inability and/or complete lack of knowledge to make a intelligent comment on this particular process, thus detracting from its educational value.The person who started this thread asked for USER BASED TESTIMONY, not narrow minded bigot jokes or false testimony. The internet and world wide web is a very diverse community, encompassing millions. This community has no place for bigot minds, and no place for racial and religious jokes, you don't know if I am black or white, Asian or African, Atheist or Buddhist, and you certainly don't know if my origins are democratic or communistic. Comments like yours need to be condemned, and if that is acceptable here, then I kindly resign.And lastly I will remind you, when you referred to my stats, that those are Petrogen's stat's and/or the United States Department of Energy stats, and that I on quoted them, therefore not making them MY stats, as you referred too. If there is a doubt with the stats, I suggest one should contact Petrogen and ask for more information or better yet, go see one of there booths at a trade show. Please do not condemn me for stating what I believe. It is not up to me to make you believers, I was simply trying to convey my testimony based on user opinion, which I did. This thread was asking about USER TESTIMONY, and if you would like to contest the claims made by a manufacturer, I suggest you go make a NEW thread, which states and asks that. This was a static thread based on the question, yet it has been molested in a dynamic mess of non user based opinion or feelings, or even better, mis-education. These comments serve no purpose as to answering the original question. If you have no experience with this process, and particularly this system, then you should be reading, and not ranting. How about starting a thread called OXY-FUELS And Opinions based on feelings.I do believe that those stats are accurate based on my experience with the system and process. Although in the report some baseline information is missing, I have no reason to believe that the U.S D.O.E has any secret or hidden agenda to promote this process or product, and no reasons to try sabotage acetylene and LPG. That report also referred to nuclear utilization of the process, which is not surprising, as the nuclear industry only excepts very high quality. Oh, and yes, I own a fleet of Japanese engineered vehicles, from Honda and Toyota to Yamaha, car, truck snowmobile, atv and any other products in between they build. My hat goes off to the Japanese people, country and systems, there superb quality, impressive engineering and attention to detail and there implicated systems others dare to compare, but fail to implicate most of the time. People like me, and there is LOTS of us have had enough of the big three domestic AMERICAN auto makers, there lack of customer service and respect, there sloppy design and engineering, there pathetic longevity and overall low quality standards. These my friend, they are the reasons the foreign automakers have succeeded and why the big 3 have been running to catch up with there pants down.I have combed through many past conversations in the archives of this community, and have seen there is many very brilliant, educated, experienced, open mined people, who can embrace others experiences and insight, who can invision things from other points of views, who can communicate and post efficiently and effectively, who can befriend and welcome with open arms, who can teach the eager and willing, and who can be taught themselves from others. These people, my hat goes off too, and I applaud there effort and willingness to try.Then there are others, who are less involved, who try to pick and undermine fair and intelligent comments and posts, who spread mockery and ignorance, who feel they themselves are subject matter experts, who wildly post with closed minds presenting no value to a conversation and detracting overall from the community. I see there are others who have left this community, others who are of the first kind I talk about. These people obviously have been provoked enough to simply turn away. I can clearly see how these people feel, and understand why these people have left. I see this community is like most others I have witnessed on the world wide web. There is always a few people who can ruin it for others, and that is why our world is in the state it is in. Unfortunately people find they can talk differently on the internet then they would in real life. It is impossible to change people like that, people of the second kind I mention. These individuals have crafted that attitude over a tremendous amount of time, and with closed minds they intimidate others through argument, through mockery, through bigotry and through uneducated comments. These people are also the same ones who refuse change, who want static results, and condemn dynamic results based on fear of change, who leave money on the table from a closed mind, who forget there are other ways to peel a orange.
Reply:Originally Posted by WeldorDenrep, Yes, I also make mistakes when writing, and exploiting a spelling error is behavior I would expect from a 12 year old, but then ranting on about it and laughing.... may I suggest you need to mature so your sense of humor becomes, well, sensible. I see you could not make a intelligent remark to my comment on your outrageous cutting time belief, so you pick on my spelling and grammar. I see that is a tactic of yours from other posts you have made in the past. Well done, and oh yes, GOOD LUCKFarmersamm, I am by far not the most experienced man alive and I have never claimed that, and that is why I joined this online community and why I am always striving to continuously further my skills, knowledge, educations and the art of welding. I also will not claim my credentials, qualifications or experience, nor have any need to prove my worthiness to you, or anyone else on this forum for that matter. I also feel that quoting and promoting Petrogen's material is fair, as I agree with everything they advertise and promote, and feel that the process is really that well developed and matured enough to recommended it without fear of wrong promotion. I joined this community so I could learn or help others learn, thus giving back to this wonderful art. If you read my earlier posts, you would understand I have used the tool for a duration of time and in a mixture of situations, that make me feel I am qualified and suitable to make a opinion, and that was on a nuclear quality production job where top quality and control was of the highest importance. Therefore I cannot make a comment on how it could be utilized on a farm, but from what I have seen most farmers are limited financially, which would most likely lead to their objection to this system, which in my eyes is also a factor in the lack of preventative maintenance and lack of quality repairs and or fabricating, that happens on some farms which leads to some serious accidents and even deaths in the farming communities. That is a unfortunate reality, because if that mind set was reversed, and the short term cost forgotten on the cost of equipment, repairs or material, allot of people would see economics from another point of view and realize potential savings which MAY save money, allot of headaches and even the loss of life.The cost of the system is quoted on request and pricing depends of factors, I suggest you ask them, and not me. However, I think your earlier reply suggests that you might not have a use for this kind of process or simply cannot afford to purchase the system due to your financial and/or economic situation. I understand the economy in your U.S.A is not doing the best based on historic averages, so I can understand your worries with cost during your current slump.I also believe that your use of words is offensive and unnecessary. Making a racial/religious based joke is uncalled for, and only serves to highlight your inability and/or complete lack of knowledge to make a intelligent comment on this particular process, thus detracting from its educational value.The person who started this thread asked for USER BASED TESTIMONY, not narrow minded bigot jokes or false testimony. The internet and world wide web is a very diverse community, encompassing millions. This community has no place for bigot minds, and no place for racial and religious jokes, you don't know if I am black or white, Asian or African, Atheist or Buddhist, and you certainly don't know if my origins are democratic or communistic. Comments like yours need to be condemned, and if that is acceptable here, then I kindly resign.And lastly I will remind you, when you referred to my stats, that those are Petrogen's stat's and/or the United States Department of Energy stats, and that I on quoted them, therefore not making them MY stats, as you referred too. If there is a doubt with the stats, I suggest one should contact Petrogen and ask for more information or better yet, go see one of there booths at a trade show. Please do not condemn me for stating what I believe. It is not up to me to make you believers, I was simply trying to convey my testimony based on user opinion, which I did. This thread was asking about USER TESTIMONY, and if you would like to contest the claims made by a manufacturer, I suggest you go make a NEW thread, which states and asks that. This was a static thread based on the question, yet it has been molested in a dynamic mess of non user based opinion or feelings, or even better, mis-education. These comments serve no purpose as to answering the original question. If you have no experience with this process, and particularly this system, then you should be reading, and not ranting. How about starting a thread called OXY-FUELS And Opinions based on feelings.I do believe that those stats are accurate based on my experience with the system and process. Although in the report some baseline information is missing, I have no reason to believe that the U.S D.O.E has any secret or hidden agenda to promote this process or product, and no reasons to try sabotage acetylene and LPG. That report also referred to nuclear utilization of the process, which is not surprising, as the nuclear industry only excepts very high quality. Oh, and yes, I own a fleet of Japanese engineered vehicles, from Honda and Toyota to Yamaha, car, truck snowmobile, atv and any other products in between they build. My hat goes off to the Japanese people, country and systems, there superb quality, impressive engineering and attention to detail and there implicated systems others dare to compare, but fail to implicate most of the time. People like me, and there is LOTS of us have had enough of the big three domestic AMERICAN auto makers, there lack of customer service and respect, there sloppy design and engineering, there pathetic longevity and overall low quality standards. These my friend, they are the reasons the foreign automakers have succeeded and why the big 3 have been running to catch up with there pants down.I have combed through many past conversations in the archives of this community, and have seen there is many very brilliant, educated, experienced, open mined people, who can embrace others experiences and insight, who can invision things from other points of views, who can communicate and post efficiently and effectively, who can befriend and welcome with open arms, who can teach the eager and willing, and who can be taught themselves from others. These people, my hat goes off too, and I applaud there effort and willingness to try.Then there are others, who are less involved, who try to pick and undermine fair and intelligent comments and posts, who spread mockery and ignorance, who feel they themselves are subject matter experts, who wildly post with closed minds presenting no value to a conversation and detracting overall from the community. I see there are others who have left this community, others who are of the first kind I talk about. These people obviously have been provoked enough to simply turn away. I can clearly see how these people feel, and understand why these people have left. I see this community is like most others I have witnessed on the world wide web. There is always a few people who can ruin it for others, and that is why our world is in the state it is in. Unfortunately people find they can talk differently on the internet then they would in real life. It is impossible to change people like that, people of the second kind I mention. These individuals have crafted that attitude over a tremendous amount of time, and with closed minds they intimidate others through argument, through mockery, through bigotry and through uneducated comments. These people are also the same ones who refuse change, who want static results, and condemn dynamic results based on fear of change, who leave money on the table from a closed mind, who forget there are other ways to peel a orange.
Reply:Originally Posted by Oldiron2I don't see where you have added any facts, any studies that show what you said or posted is accurate. Nor did you address the accurate criticisms of others which are posted above. Just more BS to try to intimidate your 'detractors', it seems.   BTW, you seem kinda thin-skinned, to be worried about denrep's comments...In fact, I'm the one who usually makes such comments about sloppy writing..
Reply:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Dear Reader interested in gasoline vs conventional fuel,Apologies for adding to the long replies, I know they make for tedious reading. Most of this post is irrelevant fluff, you can jump to the last few paragraphs and not miss much. I will strive to keep future replies as brief as possible. Originally Posted by Weldor Denrep, Yes, I also make mistakes when writing, and exploiting a spelling error is behavior I would expect from a 12 year old, but then ranting on about it and laughing.... may I suggest you need to mature so your sense of humor becomes, well, sensible. I see you could not make a intelligent remark to my comment on your outrageous cutting time belief, so you pick on my spelling and grammar. I see that is a tactic of yours from other posts you have made in the past. Well done, and oh yes, GOOD LUCK
Reply:awesome, no user testimony but a good rant indeed.basically looks like the o/a setup is for the tradesman and oxypetrol for scrap yards. 2.5 gallon of gas to 250cf propane seems i bit stretched to me as well.unless ur that guy going through 2 bottles a week it doesnt seem like a good investment for the average shop. i pay 40 dollar lease per bottle once a year and i can meet the guy from hauns at the boat launch.up here we pay .59¢ per cubic foot for acetylene and around 20¢ for ox.lincoln weld pak 100 hdlincoln ranger 225gxt ac/dcoxy/acetylenepuroxcw202 victor fc100harris model 85harrismodel 16oxweld w24roxweld w17
Reply:Sorry Ranger225, I had this ready to post otherwise I'd have  followed up on your comment.------------I'll comment on the first quote in Weldor's list that's detailed enough to easily respond to without asking for more details. It also highlights the typical sensational selling that so irks me."A man's right foot was trapped in the chain mechanism . . .. . .(gasoline) torch made quick work of the metal pieces. . . ."Unfortunate incident. Of course we're glad that oxy-gasoline was there to help free the trapped man, at least that part was definitely a good thing. It's too bad that it took until rescue could arrive to get help, it must have been an excruciating long wait.However, in similar but strictly  hypothetical situations, it's my opinion that of  all the common "burning"  methods available, oxy-gasoline would probably be the slowest to implement and to commence steel burning. So, although any ready and available set would deserves credit for a  rescue, I don't see how any extra speed could be attributed to gasoline over other methods.In my opinion, again, in a hypothetical situation, a slice rod torch would be quickest to deploy. With a crack of the oxygen valve and a spark to ignite the rod, ferocious burning of whatever material may need cutting could commence immediately. However, burning rods are oxygen hogs and every millimeter of cut has to count. Stops and restarts are somewhat difficult. Rods are quickly consumed with fire and sparks fly everywhere. No doubt that cutting of almost any material definitely commences at impressive rates.A toss-up for a close second place would be conventional oxy-fuel in a portable tote. Regardless of how long the set has been parked; grab the carry-pack;  crack the tank valves; purge on-the-fly; and with a spark the torch is lit and steel burning can commence in seconds. To conserve the precious and limited cutting oxygen available in any small-cylinder situation, the torch flame can be quickly and easily extinguished and then restarted, with no wait times,  thus not consuming gases between cuts.So far, of these three, personally, I'd have to put oxy-gasoline in third place. Why? Because of tedious set-up. IF the fuel tank had already been recently filled with the required very fresh fuel, the gasoline tank must then be pressurized with a  hand pump and then the torch must go through a methodical purge and atomizing procedure, using special care not to wet the striker with gasoline, followed by lighting and then warm-up, before cutting can commence. At best minutes, compared to seconds for the other processes. Gasoline restarts are  are also more tedious than conventional fuel, so stops to conserve oxygen may not be practical.Anyway, my point of all this is that I don't see how extra speed or fuel economy can be attributed to gasoline in this hypothetical rescue. Maybe I'm missing something and gasoline could chime in?Good LuckLast edited by denrep; 02-15-2011 at 01:22 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by WeldorI believe I posted a report from theQUOTE FROM PETROGEN, "The oxy-gasoline torch reduces costs by its more effective operation. The cost of operating supplies is lower.  The system is safer because of the impossibility of backflash and because of the visual identification of leaks. The system can expedite building dismantling effort at other D.O.E. and commercial sites."  Federal Energy Technology Center (FETC) ...bla bla bla...3/98
Reply:Absent the specific statistics of the mysterious "baseline" OA system we don't have material for a scientific comparison. Scientific comparison demands data. Anecdotes are informative but partial data isn't sufficient data.While we are mentioning rescue, some "anecdotes" from folks who do that for a living. Preferences vary:http://www.firehouse.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41948For me having to clean it like a carb after each use is an instant dealbreaker. Modern so-called gasoline turns to varnishy crud very quickly. That's a bunch of time and hassle I would NOT be getting paid for:  Neither advertisement mentions that little nugget of info, but for ANY system using gasoline it is inevitably an issue. Of course, you could dump a bunch of STA-BIL in your gas can (it works very well for auto engines, I had a Bronco II sit for over three years and still fire up properly!) but that's more time and money.For businesses, contemplate the joys of OSHA and EPA compliant cleanout of (x number) of systems per day, documenting the Hazardous Waste Stream, etc. More liquid for the Safety Kleen truck to retrieve, and more $$ for them to do it. Since you can't (well, legally) just blow waste out on the ground, a catch can or collection point receptacle is required, which then has to be emptied!http://www.firehouse.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74461I have used the petrogen torch several times and it works great as a unit. It cuts well and their is very little to no slag produced. But on the down side there are a couple problems we have found. Clean the lines out after every use with compressed air. The first time we went to use it at a scene after training we couldn't get it to light. When we returned to the station we found it had a gooey green mess in the hoses. Also if the gas can sits for very long the torch becomes even harder to ignite if at all. Which is a PITA because you can't stop at the quickie mart and fill the can on the way to the scene. As for the quality of the cut, I don't feel that matters to much as long as it cuts, which it does very well. We are performing a rescue not an auto restoration here, it may be an ugly cut but it is cut. Also even on the best of days their is a little bit of expertise needed to ignite the thing. Not to hijack the thread, but arc air, now there is an idiot proof cutting tool that will get the job done. I have tried to give you the good and the bad without leaning one way or the other. Hope this helps you a little bit.
Reply:If you want an open US evaluation, send a unit to one of the mods here (I'm not a mod) for testing along with a variety of tips. You can't buy publicity like that, and you may get useful suggestions for improvement from the very experience welding community here.Computer vendors routinely send samples to websites for evaluation, and that gets a lot of sales.For whatever odd reason most tool makers haven't figured this out.Welcome to weldingweb. There is much info here, including how to and how NOT to market products in the US market.
Reply:Originally Posted by NiteskyNo.  It doesn't cut the same.  With Petrogen you can cut through an entire spring pack of 5 leafs.  You can stack 10 layers of 1/2" flatbar and cut right through them all from top to bottom.That is -- In the hands of the guy demonstrating it.Our Ironworker hall bought one to train us with.  The instructor runs the welding class at our College.  He could NOT get this thing to work right no matter how many time he viewed the video - read the instructions - phoned the help line - changed tips, etc.It now sits neglected out back in the shed.  No good no how.Will have to ask and see what they want for it LOL
Reply:Originally Posted by farmallAbsent the specific statistics of the mysterious "baseline" OA system we don't have material for a scientific comparison. Scientific comparison demands data. Anecdotes are informative but partial data isn't sufficient data.While we are mentioning rescue, some "anecdotes" from folks who do that for a living. Preferences vary:http://www.firehouse.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41948For me having to clean it like a carb after each use is an instant dealbreaker. Modern so-called gasoline turns to varnishy crud very quickly. That's a bunch of time and hassle I would NOT be getting paid for:  Neither advertisement mentions that little nugget of info, but for ANY system using gasoline it is inevitably an issue. Of course, you could dump a bunch of STA-BIL in your gas can (it works very well for auto engines, I had a Bronco II sit for over three years and still fire up properly!) but that's more time and money.For businesses, contemplate the joys of OSHA and EPA compliant cleanout of (x number) of systems per day, documenting the Hazardous Waste Stream, etc. More liquid for the Safety Kleen truck to retrieve, and more $$ for them to do it. Since you can't (well, legally) just blow waste out on the ground, a catch can or collection point receptacle is required, which then has to be emptied!http://www.firehouse.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74461http://www.firehouse.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111679I phoned Petrogen (I like equipment research because I learn a lot doing it) and the economy model (website isn't updated yet) is a bit over 1600 dollars before shipping. It's the same as this one, and you ALSO need to buy an oxygen regulator so add another $121.00 for a nice Smith regulator.http://www.petrogen.com/page.asp?id=...dard%20PackageSpec chart says it'll cut to 14-inch.Let's go shopping with the same money and see what the internet will offer, based on Stick-man's interesting post in this thread but with an even nastier torch with more range and reach:http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...+hat+regulatorhttp://www.weldfabulous.com/Smith-SC...-p8392895.html    = $350.50Text from the Amazon site since the Smith site is so poorly done I can't find it there:"Smith Equipment - Gas Axe Extra Heavy Duty Straight Hand Cutting Torch Model: SC945 Length: 48" Head Angle: 75 degrees Gas Axe extra heavy duty SC929 cuts up to 24 inch steel. Hand cutting torches are built for the toughest jobs. They feature a reversible cutting lever and ease-on oxygen for smooth starts. The torch is also designed with a heavy wall manganese bronze head for durability and resistnace to heat warping. Ideal for foundry, scrap and demolition operations. Features: 3 tube "in-tip" mix design keeps gases separated until reaching the tip Reversible lever, top or bottom mounting Exceptional ease-on feature Uses long lasting "soft Seat" Graf-Tite cutting tips Replaceable hose connections and sintered filters Wide array of cutting, gouging and specialty tips available Versatile - for use with acetylene, propane, propylene and many other gases Superior "Ease-On" cutting jet action reduces tip-clogging and slag blow-back in piercing operation "http://www.weldfabulous.com/Regulato...-p8295963.html   $121.00http://www.weldfabulous.com/Regulato...-p8295963.html   $121.00100 feet of Grade T hose from Radnor is about 240 bucks in contrast to the 20-ft reach of the Petrogen.Throw in about 300 more (hey, we can splurge here) for tips, accessories and shipping.Round high to about 1200 bucks for a VERY NICE cutting outfit that can reach farther from the welding truck, has a longer torch length, cuts deeper (and possibly faster, need a drag race test to determine that) ,  stores conveniently, doesn't require purging liquid after use, etc. That leaves you with enough extra cash to pay for a plenty of oxygen and propane to get started. Alternately, that difference could be used for an even MORE capable cutting torch.  Make the drag race complete by starting from go and ending at the finish of equipment stowage for road transport to includebleeding the hoses of both systems down to zero/purging the gasoline lines.  Operation and Maintenance (O&M) costs are the full costs of a system, not just (in the case of a vehicle or cutting torch) what it burns.
Reply:Originally Posted by Oldiron2But some of us, perhaps many even, already have good OA systems and just don't need another type.Assuming that's even true, so what? Again, many of us don't do that much cutting so such 'savings' are irrelevant to our situation. What are the downsides to this equipment? How does it work in sub-zero conditions? How convenient is it to set up or leave assembled, ready to use? What is necessary to change for different thicknesses of work? Where is the documentation for either of these suppositions?What is so different about the two torches that would even allow it to be true?I don't know any decent cutting torch operator who has this kind of problem; more biased BS, as some others mentioned earlier. Again, no studies or explanation of how this is true; just a blanket statement.As someone with a chemistry background, I strongly challenge that statement. No basis in fact.  IMHO, no point reading the rest, just based on the above.
Reply:Originally Posted by gott2besafeIt is clear however, that you do not know the chemical properties of gasoline, the combustion rate, or BTU's per pound. .
Reply:Originally Posted by gott2besafeAre you sure you have a Chemistry backround? Where is the documentation to prove that? Just a blanket statement.  The only thing I agree with you on is if you dont do a decent amount of cutting then the investment is not advisable.It is clear however, that you do not know the chemical properties of gasoline, the combustion rate, or BTU's per pound.  All of these  matters support a lot of what they say.  Show me one other oxy/fuel cutting torch that can compare on any level? The USA Dept. Of energy did a 45 page report on their system explaining and recommending the Petrogen system over O/a and O/p torches. How much more proof is needed?  They have been in business for like 40 years and are an American made company and offer lifetime warranties.  Support and promote USA companies in general.