More TIGing Practice from Brad...

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I got bored the other day and decided to do some practice on some outside corner joints with the "Weldernator." Here are the results.Settings were as follows:Metal: 1/16" Mild steel scrap. Fit up was nearly perfect with no gap. Penetration was even the whole length of the inside of the weld.Max Amps: 70% (90A Alternator. You do the math.)Foot pedal: 75 - 100% (I varied my foot position along with my travel speed to try and get better at traveling faster.)Electrode: 3/32 2% LanthanatedFiller: 0.035" ER70-S6 MIG wire. Spun with a drill so it was straight and stiff.Gas: 100% Argon @ ~15CFHCup: Approximately a 4 or 5 sized ceramic cup. (It's actually a tip from a hand-held sand blasting gun. It's all I had available at the time I built the torch.)I also completely redesigned my homemade TIG torch. It works much better now that the electrode end is mounted at an angle. I can actually hold it properly like a real torch would be held. Being able to hold the torch properly has greatly helped my torch manipulation ability. I also added a micro-switch to my foot pedal(Sorry no picture.) and added a gas solenoid to my argon bottle. This also helped my control over the torch as I don't have a heavy brass valve hanging off the back side of the torch.I think this practice session went quite well. I am happy with my improvement since the last practice session. I was trying to concentrate on pedal control, torch angle, constant travel speed, and steadily feeding wire. I got the torch angle pretty well mastered on this type of joint. I know I should work on mastering one thing at a time, but I find it easier to just throw myself into it and go from there. Any comments, criticisms, or advice are very welcome and I would love to hear from you guys on my progress. I can't wait until I can afford to buy a real, fully featured, TIG welder, so that I no longer have to scratch start, and I'll have a "real" torch to use. Haha. Thanks in advance to everyone that replies.Brad GeorgeCurrent Equipment:AIRCO Heliwelder IV 300Amp Model - Total Awesomeness!Old 120v Hobart Handler MIGVarious grinders, cutting tools, hammers, clamps, ect..."I'm an amateur welder with lots left to learn..."
Reply:I also did one bead worth of practice today just as a test. I tried an inside corner joint, but I had it setup and I welded it like you would weld a T-Joint. Here were the results of that. This didn't go nearly as well as the outside corner joints from the above post. I definitely need a lot of practice with this kind of joint. I had a lot of problems with my torch angle and the filler melting prematurely before it got completely to the puddle. I had to jab the filler in and pull it back out very fast to keep it from melting before the puddle. Although as I said, I'm almost 100% positive that it was due to my poor torch angle. Also notice the undercut on the top of the bead while spots on the bottom of the bead look cold. I just don't have enough amps at my disposal to do this thick of metal. When I do more practice with this type of joint I will be using 1/16" coupons so that I won't have any issues with a lack of amperage.Settings were as follows:Metal: 1/4" Fit up was perfect with no gap as I also used this coupon to practice an open root outside corner joint a few weeks back. (That was posted in another thread.)Max Amps: 100% (Not nearly enough though. I only got 90A at my disposal.)Foot pedal: 100%Electrode: 3/32 2% LanthanatedFiller: 0.060" Stainless wire. Spun with a drill so it was straight and stiff. (This was just some random spool of stainless tie-down wire. It was the only filler I had that was larger than my 0.035" MIG wire. I know it's not ideal filler, but was all I had besides the MIG wire and that was way too thin.)Gas: 100% Argon @ ~15CFHCup: Approximately a 4 or 5 sized ceramic cup. (It's actually a tip from a hand-held sand blasting gun. It's all I had available at the time I built the torch.)I know I need much much more practice at this type of joint. This was my first attempt at welding this type of joint so I guess it isn't too bad, all things considered. I think it would have went better if I could have gotten the proper torch angle. Comments and criticisms are welcome. Thanks in advance.Brad GeorgeCurrent Equipment:AIRCO Heliwelder IV 300Amp Model - Total Awesomeness!Old 120v Hobart Handler MIGVarious grinders, cutting tools, hammers, clamps, ect..."I'm an amateur welder with lots left to learn..."
Reply:Dang, I am supremely impressed Brad, especially with the torch. When I saw your Redneck tig torch, I just about wet my pants. You are the new MacGuyver to tigging.Personally I am so shocked at what you achieved, there is nothing I can fault you with. Are you getting to the root of your fillets?Nice job.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Wow Shovelon, thank you...Very much. They say necessity is the mother of invention, right? I've wanted to learn how to use a TIG welder for about 7 or 8 years, I just haven't been able to afford to buy one. I also figured that buying a TIG machine and having absolutely no idea how to use it wouldn't be a good idea so I just built my own to give me something to learn on. The alternator power source was very easy as there are examples of this all over the internet. The foot pedal design/circuitry and the gas solenoid I had to come up with all on my own. I also couldn't find any examples of home-made torches either, so I completely designed the torch from the ground up. The torch pictured in this thread is the 3rd or 4th design I came up with and I think I'm going to stick with this one as it works just great.As for finding faults with my welds, I'm sure there are plenty. I mean I have less than 2 hours behind the hood using this TIG setup. I've welded with AC-Stick and I've also used tons of MIG and Flux Core before, but this "weldernator" is the first TIG I've ever laid my hands on. About reaching the root of the fillet, yes the arc was reaching in and melting the root of the weld. One of the problems with welding this type of joint with the "weldernator" is that the arc this thing produces is VERY narrow. I think the reason for this is that the output of the alternator is kind of like using a high-speed pulse setting on a real TIG welder. The arc has a high-pitched sound to it and it's very narrow and stiff. Because of this I had to keep rocking the torch back and forth to produce a wide enough weld. The beads this thing produces are only about an 1/8" wide(I ran a bead with no filler on a flat piece of metal as the test.). I've been thinking about digging out some large capacitors and hooking them to the output of the alternator to try and smooth the current output into straight DC current instead of the pulsed waveform that it puts out now. I'm not sure if it will work or not though, but I think it's worth a try. I've attached a picture showing the waveform of the output this thing creates. Internally it produces 3-phase power at a couple thousand Hz. which is then rectified by a full-wave bridge(6 diodes). Without any smoothing capacitors on the output this produces a pulsed DC output as shown in the picture below.Brad GeorgeCurrent Equipment:AIRCO Heliwelder IV 300Amp Model - Total Awesomeness!Old 120v Hobart Handler MIGVarious grinders, cutting tools, hammers, clamps, ect..."I'm an amateur welder with lots left to learn..."
Reply:I cant believe that works!! Impressive!! Very cool setup, and for being so new at tig, nice joints. On the box, maybe a little more heat next time.[Account Abandoned 8/8/16 Please Do Not Attempt Contact Or Expect A Reply]. See you on YouTube! -ChuckE2009
Reply:Thanks Lanse. I couldn't believe it worked the very first time I tried it either, especially the torch. I was grinning from ear to ear. My father-in-law was watching me and just as surprised as I was. The first 3 joints on the box were done at about 55A and the travel speed was quite slow. The last joint(on the box) was done at ~65A and I picked up the travel speed and the bead seemed much nicer and the penetration on the inside looks like the backside of a root pass even though there was no gap in my fit-up. As for the T-Joint, I had everything maxed out and 90A just isn't anywhere close to enough for the thickness of that metal and the very narrow arc and my poor torch angle didn't help much either. Thanks for the comments guys, keep 'em coming.Does anybody have any insight about the rippled output? Like whether or not that type of DC waveform I posted above is acting like high-speed pulse and causing my very narrow and stiff arc. Also does anybody think that a bank of capacitors across the output(I'm good with electronics and know how to wire them up) to smooth the ripples would work and take care of the pulsing effect I'm getting. If the capacitors will eliminate the ripples, does anybody know a formula I can use to calculate how many uF I would need to accomplish this?Brad GeorgeCurrent Equipment:AIRCO Heliwelder IV 300Amp Model - Total Awesomeness!Old 120v Hobart Handler MIGVarious grinders, cutting tools, hammers, clamps, ect..."I'm an amateur welder with lots left to learn..."
Reply:I like it!For thicker filler, spin a few strands of .035 together.NIce looking welds.  I don't think  you are going to gain much by getting your DC to be a flat line.   The wave dips do not go to zero or even close before the next one is there, so its not pulsed much.  Sure it will squeal.  Excellent job.You do no t have enough amps for the bigger fillet.  Moving the torch will make undercutting where the filler does not go.  For a wider arc, change the angle of the point on your tungsten and use a larger cup.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:That's very cool! What did you use to build your alternator?
Reply:Thanks David. I didn't know if the capacitor filter would be worth the effort or not. Thanks for the info about the T-Joint and the arc width. Appreciate it.Thanks Jake. The alternator is a 90A unit from a '96 Dodge Caravan. I didn't make any mods to it at all, just hooked it up. I had a thread in the intro section about my machine, with pictures and stuff. It's probably a few pages deep in the intro section but I'm sure it's still there.Brad GeorgeCurrent Equipment:AIRCO Heliwelder IV 300Amp Model - Total Awesomeness!Old 120v Hobart Handler MIGVarious grinders, cutting tools, hammers, clamps, ect..."I'm an amateur welder with lots left to learn..."
Reply:In a previous career blasphemy000 was also know to the real world as McGuyver. Job well done sir!
Reply:Haha...Thanks Jon. I love to build things with bits and parts that I just have laying around. It's so rewarding when it actually works. Ha!Brad GeorgeCurrent Equipment:AIRCO Heliwelder IV 300Amp Model - Total Awesomeness!Old 120v Hobart Handler MIGVarious grinders, cutting tools, hammers, clamps, ect..."I'm an amateur welder with lots left to learn..."
Reply:Wow this is cool, could you post some more pics or a diagram of the internals of the head. I saw the other thread you have posted, very interesting. What kind of pedal do you have, is it for a sewing machine or something? How is the gas inlet tube hooked up to the head of the torch? How is the heat towards the handle of the torch, being pvc pipe fittings?Very interesting, and amazing how simple things coming together can be very useful.
Reply:it would be even cooler if that torch was a flex head!!!!Lincoln pro mig 180Lincoln Square Wave Tig 300/wp 20/home built water cooler Victor, Purox, Harris, O/A welding/cutting setupsVintage Craftsman drill pressVintage Craftsman/Atlas 12"x 36'' lathe7''x 12'' w/c band saw Everlast 140 st
Reply:Originally Posted by mckutzyWow this is cool, could you post some more pics or a diagram of the internals of the head. I saw the other thread you have posted, very interesting. What kind of pedal do you have, is it for a sewing machine or something? How is the gas inlet tube hooked up to the head of the torch? How is the heat towards the handle of the torch, being pvc pipe fittings?Very interesting, and amazing how simple things coming together can be very useful.
Reply:if you are spinning the alternator with a 3600 rpm motor that is  60 rev / sec * 3 phases = 180 hz ac.  since you are then rectifying it to nearly DC, you end up with 360 hz dc with a smnall ac component.   This high of a pulse rate is very helpful for capacitor size.. you should be able to get by with a pretty small capacitor.  Since this is 3 phase, the phases overlap each other quite a bit as well, meaning the capacitor does not need to filter a full drop from 0v to peak v , it is only filtering the AC component on top of the DC.http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/powersup.htm#smoothing  is a link to an equation for single phase smoothing to get a 10% ripplehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectifi..._rectification  has a picture of the output and an equation to calc voltage ripple without a cap for 3 phase full wave rectification.An issue with these calcs is you need to know your output voltage, so get the meter handy first and measure it.. It is probably up in the 60-80v range.FWIW, I would just grab whatever broken electronics you havee laying around and grab the biggest cap you find in it that is a high enough voltage value.  A computer power supply is a good candidate.  I have a large assortment of decent sized caps I could mail you a few if you pay postage.miller syncrowave 250hobart handler 140home made 400 amp engine driven in progress...
Reply:The tag on the side of my motor says 1750RPM as its "no load" speed. The pulley setup has a slight overdrive to the alternator, I've never measured it but a rough guess I would say if the motor is spinning 1750RPM the alternator is probably spinning around 2000-2200RPM. I know there isn't much to filter out, I would say that the background current(when the wave is at it's lowest point) is probably around 80% of the full output since this thing actually has a full-wave rectifier instead of a half-wave. I know it's not very much of a pulsing effect but I think it is enough to stiffen up and narrow my arc. I did get a slightly wider arc my grinding my tungsten slightly differently so that helped some. I have a couple large capacitors(haven't looked yet to see their voltage or size) laying around that I'm going to wire up(if they have a high enough voltage rating) and see if it makes any difference. If they don't it's not really that big of a deal, it's not like I'm welding anything important with this machine as it's main purpose is for me to practice with until I get saved up for a real TIG welder. As for the output voltage, I've never checked to see what it was when I was welding, but the OCV at full power is about 80v.Brad GeorgeCurrent Equipment:AIRCO Heliwelder IV 300Amp Model - Total Awesomeness!Old 120v Hobart Handler MIGVarious grinders, cutting tools, hammers, clamps, ect..."I'm an amateur welder with lots left to learn..."
Reply:Originally Posted by blasphemy000I can't wait until I can afford to buy a real, fully featured, TIG welder, so that I no longer have to scratch start, and I'll have a "real" torch to use.
Reply:Tig welding voltage should be in the 14 to 20 volt range depending on arc length.  It pulls it down that far under load.  Just what the alternator was made to put out anyhow.Stick welders have an open circuit voltage of 60-80 v, but welding voltage is 27 to 32 v.Just my opinion, I don't think a cap is going to change the weld enough to notice.    Lincoln went through great lengths to emulate the output of an SA200 brushed generator on their newer alternator style machines.  "Chopper Technology"  Just before inverter technology.  Its not a flat dc line at all.  This is for stick.Still a nice project.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Torches and power cables are often cheap on Ebay.
Reply:I really don't see a point in buying a 50-60 dollar torch for this setup. The torch I built doesn't get hot even at full power. And as far as practicing with it, it works well enough. The only reason I was interested in filtering the output was because I have a whole handful of large caps already on hand. I only have $35 into this project from the start and that $35 went to tungsten and a tank of argon, I don't plan to put any more money into a welder that can only put out ~90A.Thanks for the info about the welding voltage, I was pretty sure the voltage dropped significantly once the arc was struck. I'll hook up the meter to it and figure out the max OCV and the welding voltage then wire in the caps and see if anything changes or if the arc profile changes at all. I don't really have anything to lose. Thanks for the comments guys. I'll post up more pics of my welds for critiquing once I get some more practice in.Brad GeorgeCurrent Equipment:AIRCO Heliwelder IV 300Amp Model - Total Awesomeness!Old 120v Hobart Handler MIGVarious grinders, cutting tools, hammers, clamps, ect..."I'm an amateur welder with lots left to learn..."
Reply:your practice looks better than my practice with the syncrowave, so the machine is not holding you back miller syncrowave 250hobart handler 140home made 400 amp engine driven in progress...
Reply:Thanks JD. I'm happy with my progress so far. Like I've said before, I think I'm doing good for having less than 2 hours of hood time with a TIG machine. This is also the only TIG machine I've ever used in my life. I plan on getting in as much practice as I can TIGing steel with this setup, then once I get the inverter I want and learn how to use all the settings on it I'm going to try my hand at some aluminum. Christmas is coming so hopefully I'll have my machine soon. =)Brad GeorgeCurrent Equipment:AIRCO Heliwelder IV 300Amp Model - Total Awesomeness!Old 120v Hobart Handler MIGVarious grinders, cutting tools, hammers, clamps, ect..."I'm an amateur welder with lots left to learn..."
Reply:Originally Posted by blasphemy000I also figured that buying a TIG machine and having absolutely no idea how to use it wouldn't be a good idea so I just built my own to give me something to learn on. The alternator power source was very easy as there are examples of this all over the internet. The foot pedal design/circuitry and the gas solenoid I had to come up with all on my own. I also couldn't find any examples of home-made torches either, so I completely designed the torch from the ground up.
Reply:Originally Posted by David HillmanI find this pretty entertaining.  The thought process behind... 'I do not know how to use one, so I will build one instead of buying one' is foreign to me.  I'm fairly sure that if you could figure out as much as you have so far, you could've figured out how to plug in and turn-on a commercial welder.   It's not harder that what you've done.   Very cool project though, and the beads are not at all bad regardless of the equipment used.
Reply:Very impressive work on your machine and welding.  I looked for your previous posts in the intro forum, but could not find any listing there.  Also, when I tried to find your photos at Photobucket, I found that they were deleted.  Would you mind posting photos of your weldernator here?  Thanks!Thanks weldordie. Here is the link to my intro thread: http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=60387All the pictures on my photobucket are still there, here are the links directly to the albums.Original Setup: http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/q.../TIG%20Welder/First Torch Mods: http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/q...0Modification/Practice and final torch mods: http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/q...re%20Practice/1/4" Outside corner w/slightly open root(Made this weld in 2 passes): http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/q...orner%20Joint/First attempt at a T-Joint, welder is way underpowered for 1/4" and the user is inexperienced: http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/q...nt%20Practice/Also, when I made the final mods to my torch, the one with the angled head, I also ditched the manual gas valve and added a micro-switch to my foot pedal and a gas solenoid to my setup. It is so much easier to use this way.Brad GeorgeCurrent Equipment:AIRCO Heliwelder IV 300Amp Model - Total Awesomeness!Old 120v Hobart Handler MIGVarious grinders, cutting tools, hammers, clamps, ect..."I'm an amateur welder with lots left to learn..."
Reply:Got in a little bit more practice tonight. It's freezing cold in my shed so I didn't stay up there to long. I used two 1/4" strips of steel, both pieces beveled, 5/64" land, and a 5/64" gap.Settings for root pass:3/32 2% Lanthanated TungstenAmps: Set at maximum.Pedal: ~90%(Root Pass) Full Pedal(Fill Pass)Filler: 0.060" Stainless (All I have in that size.)Gas: Argon @ 15 CFHI should have used a 1/16" land and gap, and full pedal, the root pass only penetrated about 90% so I had to run a bead w/o filler down the back side of the joint. The weld did hold up really well to the BFH test. I don't really have anything to do a bend test with and I wouldn't expect it to pass a bend test anyways since I used the wrong filler and I'm a little short on amperage. I was mostly just practicing torch angle/control and feeding the filler wire.Brad GeorgeCurrent Equipment:AIRCO Heliwelder IV 300Amp Model - Total Awesomeness!Old 120v Hobart Handler MIGVarious grinders, cutting tools, hammers, clamps, ect..."I'm an amateur welder with lots left to learn..."
Reply:Methinks you are going to have to start referring to yourself as "The Natural"... if you don't I will.  I'm sure you've made a lot of us pretty envious in how fast you've picked up tiggin'.
Reply:Thanks Weldordie. I think it kinda looks like crap. Haha. The left side of the top picture looks decent but the rest of it looks like a mess to me. I'm just beginning though so I have plenty of time to get better. As for the whole "The Natural" thing. I did pick up TIGing fairly quickly but I'm still working on the basics and I have a long long way to go. I'm trying to approach TIG welding with humility because I know there will always be something new I can learn for the rest of my welding life.Brad GeorgeCurrent Equipment:AIRCO Heliwelder IV 300Amp Model - Total Awesomeness!Old 120v Hobart Handler MIGVarious grinders, cutting tools, hammers, clamps, ect..."I'm an amateur welder with lots left to learn..."