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So I am looking at the Thermal Arc 300GTSW. It's supposed to be an inverter machine. The specs say it wieghs 45lbs. Which definately means it's an inverter. Although I can't tell if it's IGBT or MOSFET. But if you look at the current draw. It draws just as much current as a transformer of similar size if not more.http://www.thermadyne.com/IM_Uploads...313_0_2514.pdfOn single phase power the ****ing thing needs a 125amp fuse? The Lincoln SquareWave 255 only needs 100amp and they both top out at about 300-310amps of welding current.Can someone explain to me what I am missing here?
Reply:Originally Posted by Freestyle72So I am looking at the Thermal Arc 300GTSW. It's supposed to be an inverter machine. The specs say it wieghs 45lbs. Which definately means it's an inverter. Although I can't tell if it's IGBT or MOSFET. But if you look at the current draw. It draws just as much current as a transformer of similar size if not more.http://www.thermadyne.com/IM_Uploads...313_0_2514.pdfOn single phase power the ****ing thing needs a 125amp fuse? The Lincoln SquareWave 255 only needs 100amp and they both top out at about 300-310amps of welding current.Can someone explain to me what I am missing here?
Reply:Originally Posted by Brand XThe current draw at the highest output of the Thermal (probably stick welding too) narrows up between a standard old school transformer machine, and a inverter. I am sure you would pull about 30 amp of 240 volts single phase out the wall, while welding at 200 amps output. The amp draw does not change when you change the wave balance on the Thermal, unlike the Lincoln machine. I bet at 250 amp tig welding ,you could run it off of a 50 amp service. Very easy. I had that machine, and a TSW 300. You really need to make sure that machine stays clean, because most of the issues are from metal dust getting on the board. Wonderful welding unit, and it's a IGBT machine made by Sanrex.
Reply:Originally Posted by Freestyle72The one I am looking at says it's a 600V machine (I live in Canada).I am hoping there is a switch to go to 240V... if there is at the price point and ability of the machine I think I will buy it.http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-s...AdIdZ307460812
Reply:From one of the pics of the specs tag, it seems to be a 600v machine only.
Reply:Also, clearly states in the ad, that it's a 3 PHASE machine.Do the homework.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:My Powcon 400SMT and 300SM will run max output of 400 and 375 amps on a 50 amp circuit... so if u you get a real good inverter you can run on a 50 amp all dayTiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIAlso, clearly states in the ad, that it's a 3 PHASE machine.Do the homework.
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawMy Powcon 400SMT and 300SM will run max output of 400 and 375 amps on a 50 amp circuit... so if u you get a real good inverter you can run on a 50 amp all day
Reply:Originally Posted by Freestyle72Thanks for the info. So basically it's specific to the particular inverter used.
Reply:Originally Posted by Brand XI can run my Thermal 400 MST at full output (400 amps) and Carbon-arc cutting on a 60 amp 230 single phase input. I don't have a 50 amp circuit in my shop. Just a 20/30/60/100 Thermal just rates stuff for worst case use. Don't pay too much attention to the # because real world is different. Even that old Thermal is way more Modern then any Powcon. (yes I owned a powcon too.)
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawModern yes as Powcon is not in business, however Modern does not mean better, actually often the opposite is true. in the business world Modern= cheaper to make and more profit for the company.
Reply:Here is something about Arcon inverters from another site. They were the upgrade Powcons.All the Arcon machines are based on very dated technology. I have met Gornan ( one of the original desitgners ). They are salesmen first and foremostFore example if you look at their FAQ , most of it is hype1. His reason for using old style SCR because they are more reliable than IGBT was true 10 years ago when the use of IGBT switching devices for welding equipment was relatively new, but compared to current IGBT technology that statement is simply false. IGBT are used in electric motor inverter drives and ALL recently designed ( last 10 years ) inverter machines. Failure of welding equipment is seldom the switching devices anyways. They claim new IGBT technology has 100 times the failure rate compared to SCR. Thats just total crap ! Keep in mind all non inverter welders use this "old" SCR technology and i have seen many of those fail as well ( not as often but certainly not twice...let alone 100 times )2 They claim that the relativly low switching frequency is has no effect on the "ripple" . That might be true but the problems with low ( 2000hz ) switching frequency is its audible ( you can hear the squeal ) , and you cannot do manipulation of the welding arc nearly as fast. This is important when it comes to pulse welding and when the arc characteristics need to be tweaked. This would be like opening your eyes while your driving only once every 10 seconds vs essentially keeping them openAll other inverter welder manufactueres ( ESAB , Lincoln , Miller , Thermlydyne etc ) use switching frequencies of over 20,000hzBecause the ARCON machines use older SCR technology they are not able to switch faster3. They make great claims of surviving voltage spikes. All new inverters have such as the Miller XMT / ALT / Invison etc and the Lincoln Inveretec and Power Waves all will "survive" voltage transients far higher than you would find in hydro or generator power.They talk about a "generator version" that shuts down the welder when abnormal power is seen. So what, all new inverts do that. It's a given4. They discuss the unreliability to auto voltage connects. This was true when the Miller XMT 300 come out but that was over 10 years ago. New Autolink and Autoline from Miller are very reliableEsab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:Bottom line is if you can get one cheap go for it. If you can purchase a V350Pro ( top in class IMO ) or an XMT305 / 350 or ALT 304 for the same money it would be a much better choice. The reason they tought "old" technology is that it cost millions to redesign and manufacture a new inverter welder. This is simply not practical for a company of their sizeKeep in mind that they are essentialy the design of the Pow Con inverters. They are not in busines anymore.ARCON keeps talking about reliability . The Invertec and Miller XMT are all "mature products" where the have a proven history out in the fieldLast but not least the Arcon does the following poorly1. Aluminum MIG starts not great ( lots of inverters have this problem )2. 6010 / 7010 / 8010 perfomance poor ( machine doesn't like the whipping of the electrode )Hope this helpsEsab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:I have a 300GTSW (bought new in 1997,I believe) and I recall that there were several different models made for different voltages, and that dual-voltage models were considerably more expensive. That machine is most likely 600V only. Inverter machines of that era are more efficient than transformer machines but draw more current than modern inverters. The newer machines have what is called "power factor correction" which allows them to run on a wide range of voltages as well as drawing less line current. Mine runs on a 50A single-phase circuit with no problems, but I seldom use it over 225A output.JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:my 300SM/5p runs 6010 real well. but I would sell my Powcons and Airco if I could get a decent deal on an AC/DC inverter machine like a 350xmt.Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:If you look up the specs of the very latest Arcmaster 300 AC/DC model, you will see it's Input amp draw is the same as the older 300 GTSW model.Esab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:Yes, I have noticed that as well. Perhaps that explains why the "latest" Thermal Arc machines are less expensive than their Miller equivalents. JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:But I also noticed that TA offer sa freaken 5 year warranty now on some of their machiens like ath AC/DC 200a machine. I also found it for like $2500 off one of the sites I can't remember now weldfabulous or something.EDIT:Found it $2625http://www.weldfabulous.com/Welders/...-p8555009.html
Reply:Originally Posted by Silicon-basedYes, I have noticed that as well. Perhaps that explains why the "latest" Thermal Arc machines are less expensive than their Miller equivalents. John
Reply:Originally Posted by Brand XMaybe on the AC/DC machines. (Always one of the best values) but the top DC only version have always been more money then Miller or Lincoln Machines. Probably because they flat out weld nicer.
Reply:Am I to understand crrectly from these pics that this welder will do 1 and 3 phase?
Reply:If the picture shown is the one you are looking at, it will run on 208/230 or 460V selected by a switch. It will run on single- or three-phase power although the current draw is substantially higher on single phase. If you are running it on single-phase power, simply insulate the red wire in the power cord and use the black and white wires as usual.JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:Originally Posted by Silicon-basedIf the picture shown is the one you are looking at, it will run on 208/230 or 460V selected by a switch. It will run on single- or three-phase power although the current draw is substantially higher on single phase. If you are running it on single-phase power, simply insulate the red wire in the power cord and use the black and white wires as usual.John
Reply:That seems like a hell of a large difference in current draw between single and 3 phase. I have the 400S model, which is very similar, just has an extra 100 amps and no high freq arc start. Looking at the owners manual, it says it draws 51 amps on single phase and 37 amps on 3 phase while putting out 300 amps at 60% duty cycle. It seems quite strange for your machine to be sucking in almost twice the current mine does.Originally Posted by larry08That seems like a hell of a large difference in current draw between single and 3 phase. I have the 400S model, which is very similar, just has an extra 100 amps and no high freq arc start. Looking at the owners manual, it says it draws 51 amps on single phase and 37 amps on 3 phase while putting out 300 amps at 60% duty cycle. It seems quite strange for your machine to be sucking in almost twice the current mine does.
Reply:So I bought it...I am now the proud owner of a TA GTSW300.
Reply:Congratulations! Hope you enjoy it; it's a pretty good stick welder as well.BTW, did yours come with the "optional" meter?JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:Originally Posted by Silicon-basedCongratulations! Hope you enjoy it; it's a pretty good stick welder as well.BTW, did yours come with the "optional" meter?John
Reply:so I found out the meter is Part number 10-4000 and it's called digital meter kit.And its $250+I am now wondering if I can just rig up my own somehow.
Reply:Dude, you made out good! As far as the meter is concerned, I wouldn't worry about it. I've managed just fine without it and I've had mine for about 14 years. Definitely not worth $250; the amp control is plenty accurate. Try to get at least a 125 cu. ft. tank if possible- even cheaper per cu. ft. and TIG eats gas faster than MIG. Lanthanated tungstens are the right choice for that machine, they work fine on AC and DC. Don't listen to anyone who tells you to use pure (green) tungsten for AC- that only applies to older sine-wave machines. For regulators, I like the Smith flowmeters the best. About $120, but accurate and reliable. I prefer flowmeters to flowgauges for TIG, except for portable work. I'll bet the 240V wire was cut to make it "idiot-proof" so that someone switching it to 240 while it was connected to 480 didn't fry something expen$ive!JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:Originally Posted by Freestyle72so I found out the meter is Part number 10-4000 and it's called digital meter kit.And its $250+I am now wondering if I can just rig up my own somehow.
Reply:Originally Posted by dave powelsonI've had a 300 GTSW since new. You'll need another person to view itwhile you're welding if you looking for a readout of actual amps/volts.As Silcone-based sez--it ain't worth it.I have 3 phase, 220, which gives the machine much more 'punch'on AC TIG than single phase will.
Reply:Originally Posted by dave powelsonI've had a 300 GTSW since new. You'll need another person to view itwhile you're welding if you looking for a readout of actual amps/volts.As Silcone-based sez--it ain't worth it.I have 3 phase, 220, which gives the machine much more 'punch'on AC TIG than single phase will.
Reply:OK so I haven't used my machine yet since I had to upgrade my electrics and such before I could.So I upgrade my service from 100amp to a 200amp service. Wired in the welder and I am ready to go. Switched it to 230V and hit on... takes a few seconds and then the fan fires up.So I put the switch in HF TIG, AC, 100hz, no pulse, no sloper, cleaning/penetration right in the middle.Try as I may I cannot get this bastard to strike an arc. I press the footpedal down and I don't hear any HF and there is no gas flow either. So I pulled the foot pedal plug out and jumpered pins 2 and 3 and I hear a little click from the contactor, but no gas flow, and no arc starting either.So I tried jumping the leads on the gas solenoid (purple and yellow wires) and nothing happened still no flow. I noticed the "ground" on the really isn't hooked up to anything, just the two other prongs are.I am kind of lost at the moment since it worked on three phase at the guys house. It seems like it supposed to work on my set up since it starts and fan lights up everything like it should, but it doesn't.Any hints or advice? I called the local thermal arc repair guys but no body picked up I'll have to try them tomorrow, but inthe mean time I would love to hear your opinions.
Reply:Are the two remote settings correct? The instructions confused me at first.Can you set it for touch start tig? I have an arcmaster 185. I have used it full tilt for long times and NEVER had the hot light come on. It will put out a tested 199 amps all day long tig welding. (I think its really an arcmaster 200) I don't use it for stick, I have other machines. It does not run 7018 as well as my other machines. BUT tig its the best. Always starts the arc, does aluminum awesome. DC its nice as can be. I have a 3 gallon water cooled torch that the water gets hot from extended use and the arcmaster just keeps on going. It only has a 10 gauge cord and runs on max of 30 amps on single phase 220.For comparison, my V350 will pop a 40 amp breaker gouging at 300 amps but not a 50 amp breaker.I went into the LWS wanting a V205T and left with the arcmaster 185 TSW. The manager said "Just take it and try it. I never brought it back and saved a thousand bucks over the Lincoln. That was 3 or 4 years ago.Inverters are the balls!DavidReal world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Is the plug wired right? You need ground connected and the white and black wires connected to 220V 1 phase, at least typically. The red wire is not connected for 1 phase. Maybe you crossed them up? Look up the manual and it should show you the proper connections.-DaveXMT304 with: 22A Feeder, or HF251 Hi Freq DC TIG air cooled
Reply:It can be set for scratch/touch start tig, but I couldn't get it start an arc that way either. But I think that has to do with argon flow still or am I wrong?
Reply:Originally Posted by davecIs the plug wired right? You need ground connected and the white and black wires connected to 220V 1 phase, at least typically. The red wire is not connected for 1 phase. Maybe you crossed them up? Look up the manual and it should show you the proper connections.
Reply:The click sound you here inside the machine is the gas solenoid; there is no contactor in inverter machines.I would double-check the argon regulator, the hose from the regulator to the machine, and the torch's argon hose- you may have a cracked or clogged hose somewhere.Your wiring is correct. The 5-second delay on start-up is normal. If the fan comes on and the red light goes off, the electrics are probably fine.Good luck,JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:If my hose is clogged shouldn't the machine still be able to strike an arc but just weld poorly?That's what I am not sure about. I am getting absolutely no action there even with lift start.
Reply:Ok got the welder sparking/arcing ... but the puddle and arc both look like poo.Arc wanders everywhere etc.Was only able to scratch start it, so I am thinking the HF board is dead or something. Did a quick test from the manual and it would seem my suspicions are correct.
Reply:It's always possible that your HF board is buggered, but if you have no argon flow you will probably not get a spark out of the HF, since air does not conduct as well as argon.If I were you, I would try to solve the argon-flow issue first, then tackle the HF issue if it remains.BTW, if you didn't get one with your machine, you can download one from www.thermalarc.com in the literature section. Unfortunately, they don't seem to have the service manual for that machine available.JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:Originally Posted by Silicon-basedIt's always possible that your HF board is buggered, but if you have no argon flow you will probably not get a spark out of the HF, since air does not conduct as well as argon.If I were you, I would try to solve the argon-flow issue first, then tackle the HF issue if it remains.BTW, if you didn't get one with your machine, you can download one from www.thermalarc.com in the literature section. Unfortunately, they don't seem to have the service manual for that machine available.John
Reply:Originally Posted by Freestyle72The argon flows now once I played with the ribbon connectors. I got the TA tech to email me the service manual. Did a few test seemed to read ok. Checked out the price of the main board and HF board. If they need replacement I think I will have to toss the welder out. Does no argon lead to a crappy bird poo like in th pics?
Reply:never mind - how can I delete?Last edited by con_fuse9; 10-27-2011 at 02:57 PM.Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX
Reply:Is that Aloominum?Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:yes its aluminum... ac frequency at ab out 100hz, AC, HF start (but touched the electrode).Also pretty sure the guy has it rigged so argon flows whenever the welder is on, he modified the footpedal for whatever reason. So there is argon flow. I cleaned the tungsten up and tried it again and still did the stupid bird poo spatter and no actual puddle formed. All that happened was it would boil up and spatter no real penetration.When I tested it at his place it was on steel. So I'll see if it behaves the same in DC as AC. Sure am hoping it's not. I am also hoping if I take the HF board to an electronics geek they ca just replace whatever resistors or whtever the hell makes it work.
Reply:Touch start and AC are not really an option. Need Hi freq to start the arc on an inverter. Need it on all the time on a sine wave welder. (transformer) because the arc voltage crosses zero and goes out. BIG advantage for Inverters.Touch start DC electrode negative..Real world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by Freestyle72yes its aluminum... ac frequency at ab out 100hz, AC, HF start (but touched the electrode).Also pretty sure the guy has it rigged so argon flows whenever the welder is on, he modified the footpedal for whatever reason. So there is argon flow. I cleaned the tungsten up and tried it again and still did the stupid bird poo spatter and no actual puddle formed. All that happened was it would boil up and spatter no real penetration.When I tested it at his place it was on steel. So I'll see if it behaves the same in DC as AC. Sure am hoping it's not. I am also hoping if I take the HF board to an electronics geek they ca just replace whatever resistors or whtever the hell makes it work. |
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发表于 2021-8-31 23:22:13