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Ok so here is my problem. I am welding using a Thermal Arc 300GTSW inverter machine. 3/32 2% thoriated tungsten. Welding 1/8" aluminum plate and or bar stock just trying to get a puddle going.I get this aweful aweful spatter, no puddle forming and the arc is so erratic it's useless. Tungsten keeps blackening and there is black all over the weld. I was convinced it was my argon bottle was no good and was contaminated.I went and explained the situation to my LWS and the guy said bring in your whole set up and try it out in my shop and use my argon. So I took my machine and the whole set up and hooked up to his argon bottle and I got the most beautiful arc any guy could ask for. Extremely stable and smooth even on some heavily oxidized material. So then I was sure it was the argon until I hooked up my bottle while at his shop and voila the arc was still extremely stable and smooth. So at this point I am extremely embarassed as the issue seemed to have disappeared.So I took my set-up home and plugged it and tried to weld again. Lo and behold I am getting ****ty spatter and crazy contamination in my welds again. Frustrating.So I am thinking either 1 of 2 things. The argon is STILL contaminated and that I didn't weld enough at that guys shop to purge all of his argon out of my lines before declaring my argon OK. Or it's my electrical wiring at my house. I have my welder hooked up to a 60amp breaker that was an old one I had laying around. Also the cable that is supplying the welder is excessively long (40ish feet). Does anyone have any experience with the electrical supply being the issue rather than argon?
Reply:Got any pictures?Also what gauge is your wiring going to the welder?JoeMiller 140 Autoset (2010)Miller Syncrowave 250 (1996)
Reply:Maybe the gas is not flowing enough. It kinda sounds like polarity reversed on DC. Maybe swap the leads. Maybe the power is wrong, maybe hot and neutrals are swapped. Maybe the cord is the problem. I'd try setting up a temporary rig and hook the machines cord straight into the breaker at your power panel. After all that, get a new bottle. If the guy is convinced the argon is okay, he should take it back.Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:Originally Posted by joebieGot any pictures?Also what gauge is your wiring going to the welder?
Reply:Originally Posted by fortyonethirtyMaybe the gas is not flowing enough. It kinda sounds like polarity reversed on DC. Maybe swap the leads. Maybe the power is wrong, maybe hot and neutrals are swapped. Maybe the cord is the problem. I'd try setting up a temporary rig and hook the machines cord straight into the breaker at your power panel. After all that, get a new bottle. If the guy is convinced the argon is okay, he should take it back.
Reply:Is it possible to run the machine without the cord, with the pigtail from the welder hooked straight to the panel? Do you have another cord you can try? You can get about 100 amps welding current through a regular 12 ga. extension cord. What does the machine do on DC? Have you tried it on steel?What do you mean by excessively long? Is the cord rolled up in a coil on the floor when in use? If so, try pulling it out in a straight line.I have a 100' 10 ga. cord that I use with my maxstar 150 and have no problems with it.Last edited by fortyonethirty; 12-02-2011 at 11:54 AM.Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:Originally Posted by fortyonethirtyIs it possible to run the machine without the cord, with the pigtail from the welder hooked straight to the panel? Do you have another cord you can try? You can get about 100 amps welding current through a regular 12 ga. extension cord. What does the machine do on DC? Have you tried it on steel?What do you mean by excessively long? Is the cord rolled up in a coil on the floor when in use? If so, try pulling it out in a straight line.
Reply:My first thought is gas.I have sat down after a break to weld aluminum and forgotten to turn the gas back on. Its usually - "hey I can't hear the gas but I heard the solenoid click...."To figure out how much purge:Assuming 1/4" tubing - 25ft length(1/4)^2 * Pi / 4 / 144 * length_in_ft = cubic feet = .00852CFH / 3600 = CFS (i.e. per second).20cfh = .0555 cfs1x purge = .00852/.0555 = .155 seconds10x should be plenty.That being said, I have found that with my constant connecting are reconnecting for argon to the Maxstar, that I just go ahead and purge for a full 20 seconds at 15 cfh. Simply set the post flow timer to 20 and hit the pedal.Just for kicks, set the pre-flow to 2 seconds.As for power, just make sure you have both legs of the breaker working. Sometimes half a breaker trips. Part of the efficiency of an inverter is that the real cable size needed to power the welder is very much related to what you are welding. You don't need all the input amps if you are working thin sheet metal.Other suggestions:1) Don't use thoriated. That stuff is awful on aluminum - when it over heats it just turns ugly. Lanthanated - gold tip (1.5% or so) is probably the best choice. Ceriated is pretty good on inverters.2) Check your work clamp. I had some ugly looking welds on a radiator because I couldn't get a decent return path - it was actually/arcing and welding on the work clamp.3) Swap out the bottle anyway - you've already wasted enough time on this that $40 worth of gas isn't going to break you.4) Of course the slightest breeze could cause this as well. Ceiling fan? Need and A/C vent? Drafts?Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX
Reply:I have better luck with a 2% lanthanated blue, sharp tip, and run about 15 cfm, I'm also running an inverter machine.Lincoln Invertec 205-T AC/DCMiller Coolmate 1Hypertherm Powermax45
Reply:I've always used pure tungsten when ac tig welding aluminum on transformer based machines. Balled end. Arc blow can be the cause of eratic arc but this is usually more common with dc welding.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:I'm about as amateur as you can get. But, when my gas aint flowing, it makes a big mess - no heat, arc jumps all over the place, etc. When a wind gust comes through the cracked door, the metal boils and crackles instantly. From what I've read about the subject, looks like bad gas - maybe CO2 mixed in it.Junky Airco Heliwelder 350 TIG (ESAB)Hobart Beta-MIG 250 with Miget spool gunJunky LTec 225 MIGESAB PowerCut plasma cutterOA welding and cutting"Better grinder than a welder."
Reply:Check for argon leaks or holes in the hose pulling air into the argon.
Reply:Definitely need to uncoil that extension cord, even if it's not causing this issue. By coiling it, you are keeping it from dissipating heat properly, along with actually creating a choke coil.It certainly looks like contamination, so try to think of what you did between the LWS and your house that could introduce a leak. Maybe the routing of the argon hose or your torch lead which you would tend to put back in the same place, yet would have been positioned differently at the LWS.Were you using the same piece of material at the LWS?Just thinking out loud here.PapaLast edited by papaharley03; 12-02-2011 at 06:30 PM.Lincoln Idealarc 250 (circa 1962)Lincoln Weldpak 155 w/Mig KitLincoln Squarewave TIG 175
Reply:Originally Posted by Freestyle72...So I am thinking either 1 of 2 things. The argon is STILL contaminated and that I didn't weld enough at that guys shop to purge all of his argon out of my lines before declaring my argon OK.
Reply:sounds like your hydro is done wrong, you said the cord was coiled up? i used to run an diesel mobile machine for work that we had to unwrap all the ground cable off it or it wouldnt burn rod right! boss said it was something to to with an electrical or magnetic field caused by the wire being over and over itself in the coil!
Reply:Originally Posted by Fonz27sounds like your hydro is done wrong,
Reply:Freestyle721-You've got lack of proper shielding gas--be it bottle contamination, leaks in the variousfittings (have you soaped ALL of them?), squirrely torch or torch lead setup's leaking, or air flow in the weld area.Or combinations of the above.2-40' of 6 gauge cable is not suspect (I think that's what I've got for use as an extension cable).2 pics below of 300GTSW panel, for your reference use-after the contamination problem resolved,with some basic setup notes and comments from a novice end user who's only ran this machinefor 8,000 hours+, TIG steel, AL & SS. It's been a good machine to use, after (3) 400 amp transformer machines.If you haven't downloaded the manual from TD, suggest you do. It's very basic, but sometimes helpful.First is full panel. The torch lead needs to be in the (-) female dinse receptacle. It stays there forAC or DC TIG welding.http://weldingweb.com/attachment.php...1&d=1322885842Second is control panel.http://weldingweb.com/attachment.php...1&d=1322885855 It's wholly easy for those lettle knobs and switches to get bumped, changed, without yourealizing this. Suggest checking, flipping positions--every time you setup and in between on longruns. (Like running a mini-checklist--just like airplane drivers do)AC-TIG--from left top:pulser toggle-offsloper toggle-off3 way toggle:center position for H.F. startOutput Selector:uP for ACAmperage knob--set to appropriate metal thicknessTop RightAC Freq. knob:20 cps gives the most heat, but the arc is not as stiff(for an awful lot of stuff, even touchy-thin, I'll run it here)150 cps is the stiffest arc, with much less heatWave Balance-crank down to minimum-10%90% of the current is thru the ground cable-not the torchtungsten--which really helps the point-stay pointed, evenat high amp settings. The long tapered point in turn, creates focused arc in AC,rather than a big, spread-out, dancing around arc from pure tungsten in AC.Massive, focused heat succeeds where all other methods-fail.(The cleaning action bantered about so much, has a place--a lot of cleaning action is actually just giving time for more preheating to take placeand then things magically seem to wet and flow so nice.)Spot time and pulse knobs only are activated whensloper switch or pulser switches are set Arc Control-in use in the SMAWmode only. Rotate the control clockwise to increase theshort circuit current available to control the welding arc.Hot Start Control--at 'O'--provides avariable selection of start circuit current that operatesin the HF TIG modes. The Hot Start time isapproximately 0.06 seconds in STICK. The current valueis adjusted from 0 to 100 Amps over the determinedweld current set by the Amperage Control. Rotating thecontrol clockwise increases Hot Start current.(above last 2 descriptions from TD's manual)-----(just use the hand or foot remote for starts) Attached ImagesBlackbird
Reply:Originally Posted by Fonz27 boss said it was something to to with an electrical or magnetic field caused by the wire being over and over itself in the coil!
Reply:Maybe drawing in air from a leak or something?JoeMiller 140 Autoset (2010)Miller Syncrowave 250 (1996)
Reply:Thanks fore the advice so far gents. I uncoiled all the input cable and gave welding a shot again with the same results. At this point I am 100% convinced the argon is still no good. That said since I bought this bottle in the states my LWS will not exchange the bottle. I also tried TSC but they didn't have any 80CF of pure argon in stock that day. I did find another shop near by that doesn't do cylinder exchange. They just fill your cylinder for you on the spot. So they don't care what and where or who you got the tank from as long as the hydro date is good. So is there anything I can have them purge my tank with to insure no contaminate remains? What's the typical procedure for this? Better to just buy another bottle (although I really prefer not to as the 80CF ones cost $280 with no gas, although TSC is having a sale for $231 no gas still). Anyways to me that's pretty steep. So do you guys thing just emptying the bottle and filling with good argon should be good enough? Or is there any purging procedure that should be done? For example I suspect there was some C25 or something in that bottle mixed with my argon, judging by how much the tungsten is getting eaten everytime I weld.
Reply:If you guesstimate that the empty bottle contains about 1 cubic foot, it's actually less but that doesn't hurt here, then assume that the current gas 100% bad, also probably not that bad, you get these numbers.1 / 80 = .0125.0125 / 80 = 0.00015625So I think if you empty it and refill once, you'll have about 1% contamination, probably okay. If you do it twice you'll be about one percent of one percent, so I think two times should be plenty. If the guy at the LWS has a heart he won't charge full price for the two fills either.Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:Don't know if this has been mentioned but this happened to me once albeit not quite as bad and it was a heater across the room from me, had just enough breeze to blow the argon away.
Reply:$4 nitrogen purge$40 argon fillHad to drive 30 mins out of town to get to this guy cuz my local doesn't touch any tank that he hasn't sold. Anyways he charges $67 for a tank fill/exchange. So it all comes out in the wash. I'll report on my contamination issues when I get it all set up again.
Reply:So it works. Arc is smooth as butter.
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick VBINGO! That's my guess.The FACT is... your welds look like Bad Gas - period! |
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发表于 2021-8-31 23:20:58