3/8" plate, 1/8 7018 electrode, vertical up lap joint

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Wow I'm having a hell of a time with this right now.  Using a Miller XMT 350. Amps set around 108, AC set at 60.  I noticed my instructor uses a side-to-side motion going up, and his beads were beautiful. I tried mimicing his motion but had a hard time, so I tried doing little e's and that worked a little better. Then I tried just going straight up, no motion and I had the best results with that. But I still can't nail it down, he wants two stop-and-starts on a single pass and I can't get it. I was flying through our checklist, and now I've been stuck on this for 3 days.
Reply:Are you getting a build-up in the middle? If that is the case whip across quickly and pause at the sides.When you go across and reach the side raise up a bit then go across to the other side.Leo
Reply:Not so much in the middle, but my beads are inconsistent. They're nice and uniform for a few inches, and then thin or too thick. I think my problem could be pulling my arc out and not keeping it in tight? I'm keeping about a 50* angle.
Reply:Without pics it's hard to give advice.As you go the plate heats up, so you have to travel faster Also try and keep the rod more perpendicular to the plate. That isn't written in stone, whatever works for you is fine.Leo
Reply:Seems like you may need to turn the amps up a bit. You may be over heating the steel from a slow travel speed and thats why the first few inches are good.
Reply:Picts would help greatly. My guess is you haven't learned to read the puddle. Most of the students at the tech school get thru flat and horizontal doing what I refer to as timing patterns. As soon as they hit vertical they crash and burn and can't understand why the suddenly can't get good beads. The reason is they never learned to read the puddle and react to it. With stick it's a bit harder as you have to differentiate between the slag and the puddle.Once you learn to read the puddle and understand what different changes are doing to it as you weld, all of this will make sense and become easier.Pay close attention to the puddle not the arc. Most newer welders watch the arc not the puddle around it. It's easier to watch this say doing a flat weld where you can concentrate on the puddle. Try and distinguish between the slag and the puddle and start to note what happens as you manipulate the rod. I prefer to do a side to side motion on vertical filets. I pause at the side and watch the puddle. As soon as the puddle catches up to the arc, I'm quickly swinging across to the other side and then waiting for the puddle to catch up again. I find "e's" a bit harder to do vertical and get the fills right. Straight vertical is tough as you have to watch both sides fill at once as you go up..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:i was just doing the same thing tonight, only with a t-joint.  what i really started to concentrate on was rod angle.  my hand was 15-20* below the puddle.  if i didn't concentrate on moving my right hand up to keep my rod angle consistant, i had trouble.  bags, big gaps in the beads, long arcing, you name it.  once i really started to concentrate on the puddle and my right arm, things really looked better.  good luck
Reply:Thanks. I will pay more attention to my puddles tomorrow, I have been keeping an eye on them so far, but now that you say it I realize I could be paying more attention and putting more focus into puddle control. Keeping a close arc is pretty easy for me, but I do have a harder time keeping consistent angles (keeping my rod angle consistent) and sometimes catch myself dropping my angle as I get higher and higher.  I wish I had my own machine at home so I could practice after school. Any suggestions on what kind of machine to buy just for home use? A stick machine, I don't think I could afford anything else right now, like a MIG or Multiprocess machine.   I couldn't spend anything more than $300.
Reply:That amperage is a little low. I would try something more near 114. Like someone said earlier, these are just suggestions, not rules. But it gives you a somewhere to start. You would be amazed what a little extra heat can do for your welding.IW Local 580 NY, NY
Reply:Thanks. I will also try turning up my amps tomorrow!
Reply:If you keep your eyes open on CL you can usually easily find a nice AC stick for less than $150. $300 should get you a nice AC/DC machine if you are patient. Take a look at some of Rick V's scores or see if he's looking to unload one he picked up.  Most of the older transformer stick machines are very ruggedly built, have almost zero electronics that can go bad and are usually almost new as far as use is concerned. Worst comes to worst, you can probably get a new Lincoln 225AC stick machine for that price, but I wouldn't waste the money on a new one when you can get exactly the same machine used for less than 1/2 the money.If I had to have just one machine for home/hobby use, it would be a 230v mig however. I just can't do thin metal all that well with stick, and the times I need a machine capable of doing over say 1/4" are usually some what limited. Unfortunately $300 is most likely to low to get you a 230v machine unless you are very lucky. It's even a borderline budget for a good small 110v mig machine. You probably need to save up $800 or so to get into a good mig..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:In my opinion the amps maybe too low. when I passed this test in my class, I went side to side with a one onethousand count on either side and very fast through the middle. Also when I was looking at it through my "noob glasses" it felt as though I were welding directly over my last line, but once I stopped and cleaned it, it looked good. I hope my erratic answer helps some.
Reply:I used a XMT 304 quit a bit, pretty similar to the 350 your welding on. 108 is too low bump up to 114-118, 108 is for smaller rod or fancy weaves. Also where is your arc control set? Just little under mid point on the dial is a good zone 35-40.When I weld vertical I am about 4-5 degrees less than a straight ninety so about 85 degrees.My son is in welding scholl and just two weeks ago called me with the same problem and after talking with me one night went in the next day and straightened himself out. He was holding his rod at 30-40 also. That causes problems as your pushing your puddle and what you push is slag which your going to run your rod into next which donks up your puddle.I wouldn't now be working on the oscillation left to right initially, you need to get straight stringers working first then work on weaves, the basic count for me BTW is a quick 1.2.3 quick through the center and repeat 1.2.3 on the other side ( but thats not a hard rule ) when its working right its sort of like a dance step. The oscillation pattern is important but you will need to try several, my instructor used the T pattern and his welds looked great, I prefer C's, zig zag, circular and figure 8. As you weld more you will find different types of rod favor different weave patterns I don't use the same pattern on 7018 vertical as I use on 6010 on a hot pass. I also learned backwards I started on 6010, then learned 7018 I had to stop oscillating and work on straight stringers.Just learning don't fuss with weaves get your straight stringers going first, you won't be weaving when you do your test on weld coupons it will be stringers. When you get to 6010 you need to weave but thats a whole different animal and you will get there later in your course.You were already given some excellent advice with your puddle, there are three places to watch, 1. your leading edge 2. the center of the puddle 3. your edge where your cutting into. The edge is important so you don't undercut.And practice, practice, practice welding is one thing you can't learn from a book it definately helps with the theory but the old saying is:" The difference between a good welder and a bad welder is 1000 pounds of rod "
Reply:Originally Posted by fredschromI used a XMT 304 quit a bit, pretty similar to the 350 your welding on. 108 is too low bump up to 114-118, 108 is for smaller rod or fancy weaves. Also where is your arc control set? Just little under mid point on the dial is a good zone 35-40.When I weld vertical I am about 4-5 degrees less than a straight ninety so about 85 degrees.My son is in welding scholl and just two weeks ago called me with the same problem and after talking with me one night went in the next day and straightened himself out. He was holding his rod at 30-40 also. That causes problems as your pushing your puddle and what you push is slag which your going to run your rod into next which donks up your puddle.I wouldn't now be working on the oscillation left to right initially, you need to get straight stringers working first then work on weaves, the basic count for me BTW is a quick 1.2.3 quick through the center and repeat 1.2.3 on the other side ( but thats not a hard rule ) when its working right its sort of like a dance step. The oscillation pattern is important but you will need to try several, my instructor used the T pattern and his welds looked great, I prefer C's, zig zag, circular and figure 8. As you weld more you will find different types of rod favor different weave patterns I don't use the same pattern on 7018 vertical as I use on 6010 on a hot pass. I also learned backwards I started on 6010, then learned 7018 I had to stop oscillating and work on straight stringers.Just learning don't fuss with weaves get your straight stringers going first, you won't be weaving when you do your test on weld coupons it will be stringers. When you get to 6010 you need to weave but thats a whole different animal and you will get there later in your course.You were already given some excellent advice with your puddle, there are three places to watch, 1. your leading edge 2. the center of the puddle 3. your edge where your cutting into. The edge is important so you don't undercut.And practice, practice, practice welding is one thing you can't learn from a book it definately helps with the theory but the old saying is:" The difference between a good welder and a bad welder is 1000 pounds of rod "
Reply:A few things that may help.  Turn the arc force up towards crisp.  It will help the weld cool faster.More amps may help.   Push the rod into the puddle.  (Short arc)Heat travels up, so you are close with the amps but not quite exactly on.  Make 5 amp adjustments up and down to see what it does for your puddle.Enough for now.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Finally got past it, thanks to all the tips!  Since then I finished up my stick checklist, and I've moved onto 1/4" plate MIG, did inside and outside corners, lap joint, 3/8" padding, and horizontal inside corner root pass and triple pass. I'm now on something that my instructor designed to prepare us for test coupons, he called it a Test Replica 7/8 Five Pass. I will post a pic tomorrow after school, because I had one hell of a time with it back on my SMAW checklist, and you'll see why. It's really difficult!  Will be back to update this tomorrow night.
Reply:I run my vertical stringers with 1/8" E7018 around 120 amps with no oscillation. On the tie-in's I start above the weld crater and drag the rod back into the crater and do a slight circular motion and then continue on welding as close to the same speed and as close to the same arc length as i was welding with before. Remember to keep a tight arc and learn to WATCH YOUR PUDDLE and keep practicing and dont give up and soon you'll be running some beautiful welds.Aaron Olsonmiller dynasty 200dx
Reply:oops    sorry     i didnt see your last post.    im glad you got through it and are still welding    keep it upAaron Olsonmiller dynasty 200dx