Getting new mig bottle...98/2 or C25?`

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I'm changing suppliers for welding gasses in order to reduce how much I'm paying in rental fees on bottles.  I'm curious before I commit about a few things on argon mixes for Mig.  Right now I'm using 75/25 AR/C02 and it seems like a pretty good all purpose mix.  I have not used 98/2 but I hear its good for spray-arc which I would like to try, but I'm curious if its any good for traditional short-circuit arc, especially on thinner metals (As in, would it work at all if I wanted to do automotive sheet metal with it?)
Reply:Originally Posted by greenbuggyI'm changing suppliers for welding gasses in order to reduce how much I'm paying in rental fees on bottles.  I'm curious before I commit about a few things on argon mixes for Mig.  Right now I'm using 75/25 AR/C02 and it seems like a pretty good all purpose mix.  I have not used 98/2 but I hear its good for spray-arc which I would like to try, but I'm curious if its any good for traditional short-circuit arc, especially on thinner metals (As in, would it work at all if I wanted to do automotive sheet metal with it?)
Reply:As has been stated MANY times in many posts:There is not one gas that is BEST for both short arc and spray transfer.When you refer to 98/2 do you mean 98%Argon/2%O2 or 98%Argon/2%CO2.  Big difference.98%Argon/2%O2 is a good spray mix but nearly useless as a short arc gas.98%Argon/2%CO2 is usable as a pulsed spray mix but does not have sufficient CO2 to "wet out" a mild steel short arc weld.  Some (Ed Craig) recommend this mix as an alternative to tri-mix for short arc SS.If you want gas for both short arc and spray, either use two bottles or buy a mixer.  Even then you're going to need two bottles (one for Argon, one for CO2).The C10 that Brand X mentioned "Will Work" but is far from ideal, especially for short arc. If you're working with a marginal output welder, it's even less of an option.At last count, I think this makes about post #1001 on gas mixes.  Maybe it's time for admin to HIGHLIGHT the SEARCH feature.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Greenbuggy,Do you own a 250+ amp MIG machine?ESAB Migmaster 250 Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:Originally Posted by DanGreenbuggy,Do you own a 250+ amp MIG machine?
Reply:I couldnt imaging a shop with out a bottle of 75% Argon/25% CO2 and 100% Argon. I would say those two for sure if you are doing Steel and Aluminum.Hobart Handler 210 with SpoolgunHypertherm PM30 PlasmaHTP 221 Tig WelderHF BandsawHF Auto Dark Helmet
Reply:Hey greenbuggy,You will have to really supply much more data to give you any kind or reasonable solution to fill your needs.1)  MIG output power?????2)  Materials you use or want to use?????3)  Amount of work applicable?????  Small repairs?  Large production runs?  Different metals(HR/CR/SS/Alum.)?????SDIII has suggested a mixer that can really enhance your applications & welding parameters. I know he has one, as I do. They really will save you $$$$$ & provide many more options.DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:I was stating for thin metal only. (which he asked) It will work well.(Just not as well overall as C-25 short-arc gas) If he has a decent size machine it will spray nice too. My new little machine is setup for (slope setting etc..) For 98% argon-2% CO2 stainless short-arc. It will be interesting if it will weld as nice as a SS tri-mix. Which I sort of doubt.. Of course I traded my 98/2 CO2 away for a bottle of 98% Argon-2% O2 There are some Tri-mixes that will do fair job at both, finding the right one for your machine is another matter. Been a long time since I have used one, but it did work in the Migmaster 250 I had. The place I got it from had 2 different ones with different O2 % in them Argon/CO2/O2 The one with the lower% the O2 seemed to work better for me. There was not a lot of difference in price between C-25 and tri-mix from them.Last edited by Brand X; 01-14-2012 at 03:54 PM.Esab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:I have 92% argon 8% Co2 for pulsed spray.I have 75% argon /25% Co2 for short arc mig. For short arc mig 92/8 does not get the penetration of the 75/25 at all.  I have pure Co2 for attempting MIG out side.  I can crank it up to 30 cfh at little cost.Its cheap, gets the most penetration and makes the most spatter.If I could use 92/8 for everything  I would.   How much do you really spray arc?DavidLast edited by David R; 01-14-2012 at 05:45 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:To answer a few questions - Yes, I have a big enough machine.  The shop has a 400A lincoln CV power source with an LN-7 feeder, and I have my own personal Esab Migmaster 251.  They are currently sharing a bottle (I use the Esab more - I only use the lincoln if I really need all those amps).  I also have an L-Tec Heliarc 307 for tig and stick work if I need to, so I never use Mig for aluminum repairs.  Most of the work I do is with 16 ga-3/8" angle, tubular and flat steel when I'm building things, 1/8-5/8" for repairs.  A lot of what I do is in a repair setting, so I can't specifically narrow it down as if I were in a production setting - some days its repairing frame cracks in equipment, and some days I'm doing light sheet metal type work.  I anticipate replacing cab corners in my pickup soon so the reason I ask is that I don't want to limit my options, though I would like to experiment more with spray arc.