Few questions on angle

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I have a project coming up and I am mostly a hobby welder so I have a few questions maybe you guys can answer.First a little background on the project, it's 4 cattle feeders that are poured from concrete.  They are roughly 35' long each. On the inside of the feeders there is 1" rebar that is maybe 3' tall that sticks straight up on about 18" centers where the cattle can stick their heads through to get into the troughs.  The owner is wanting to cap and weld these all together as they are very dangerous to the cattle being open on the top as well as being spread by the cattle reaching in.  The rebar is not perfect height all the way across but I believe a piece of angle iron with a 4" side will cover from the tallest to the shortest without having to cut each rod. He is wanting it done as cheap as possible (doesn't everybody) with decent results.My plan was to use a piece of angle that is 4"x1.5"x.25" thick for the top with the 4" side running vertical.  I would then weld on the inside of the angle roughly 1" tall .125" thick piece of angle that I cut myself over the top of each rebar to the back side of the angle iron to keep them in place.  The owner was wanting me to weld the rebar directly to the 4"x1.5" angle but I am afraid he would be paying more for my wire than buying the extra angle iron with the amount of weld that would be needed to get a good weld (for me) filling in the back side behind the rebar.  Now for my questions.  Will it be tough to find 4" x 1.5" x .25" thick angle iron at a local yard or is that something they will have to special order?  What kind of price should I expect to pay for steel in those dimensions?  Length is not really a problem as I will join them on site.  What is the common length for steel of that size?  When I weld on the 1" strips of angle that is 1/8th inch thick how big does that angle iron have to be to get a 1.25" gap under neath it so the 1" rebar will have no problem clearing the back side?  I used (1.25*1.25)+(1.25*1.25) = 3.125     Square root of 3.125 = 1.76 so I figured I would need 1.75"x1.75" angle that is 1/8th" to weld onto the back sides.  Can somebody double check that for me to make sure there will be enough space to clear 1" rebar underneath or will the sides of the rebar be hitting where I need to go bigger?I am wanting to add a 4" piece of 1/8th" thick flat steel over the back after all completed for a nice finish but I'm not sure the owner is going to want that being the price of steel. I do apologize if my explanations are confusing, if they are just say so and I will try to better explain what I am wanting to do.Any help is greatly appreciated!Thanks.Brett
Reply:I have tried about 3 times now to read an understand all that; no dice. Getting late and my caffeine buzz is gone for the evening.But.....1/4" x 4" x 1.5" angle may prove to be a pain to find. Might be better having a local steel supplier bend you a piece up. I can fully visualize the project and what you are wanting to accomplish with the 4" angle, but after that I get lost. Since this is nothing more than a feed trough, why go through the extra hassles of any other materials. Simply set your angle (4" stuff) in place, get it leveled off and weld the re-bar to it. I don;t think the cows are going to criticize you too much for it.
Reply:This should help explain what I was thinking.  I apologize for the quality, it's just a paint drawing.  Will 1.75X1.75 angle clear a 1" rebar under it?I guess my main reason for wanting to use the angle instead of welding directly to the rebar is the amount of wire I would be using.  I know I can make good strong welds with the angle, not sure sure about my abilities welding the rebar directly having to fill that much material.  I will be using a Hobart 210 MVP with .035 flux core.  Thanks for the quick reply.Last edited by ProCharger; 03-02-2014 at 10:48 PM.
Reply:Ahhh... that makes sense. The math does check out alright using 1.75" angle as a gusset like you are showing. But, It really isn't going to do much of anything for you I don't think. Unless your welding abilities lack that much that you feel you need that, a simple weld on each side of the 1" re-bar is more than enough to hold for this application.
Reply:Could you use 1'' schedule 40 pipe ?  1'' might just drop over the rebar , it's 1'' ID. If not 1 1/4'' will fit for sure. Cut the pipe all the same height ,drop over rebar, then use angle on top like 2x2 .
Reply:You are going to have to weld the rebar.  If you don't, the cows will knock your cap off.My name's not Jim....
Reply:This also sounds like the prefect job for a simple stick welder.   I don't think you'll be burning "that" much wire.  Besides if you do, make your customer/boss pay for it.  Tell him up front how much it's going to cost.Last edited by SuperArc; 03-03-2014 at 02:26 AM.Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:Maybe I'm just anal but I would just get a 2x2 cold rolled square tube and drill out the 1 inch holes in the bottom. Insert the rebar and weld it get's the job done and looks much better IMHO........ Anyone see any flaw in my logic here????GOD, GUNS,& GUTS Made America Free
Reply:Originally Posted by CharleyMarblesMaybe I'm just anal but I would just get a 2x2 cold rolled square tube and drill out the 1 inch holes in the bottom. Insert the rebar and weld it get's the job done and looks much better IMHO........ Anyone see any flaw in my logic here????
Reply:Originally Posted by ProChargerThis should help explain what I was thinking.  I apologize for the quality, it's just a paint drawing.  Will 1.75X1.75 angle clear a 1" rebar under it?I guess my main reason for wanting to use the angle instead of welding directly to the rebar is the amount of wire I would be using.  I know I can make good strong welds with the angle, not sure sure about my abilities welding the rebar directly having to fill that much material.  I will be using a Hobart 210 MVP with .035 flux core.  Thanks for the quick reply.
Reply:Originally Posted by dcoffmanjrYes - drilling 1" holes into 2" thick steel and cost of a 2" squat solid bar Is a feed trough, and the animals that are feeding from it are going to be providing either chocolate milk, or cheeseburgers for us. I don't think they car about aesthetics. Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by walkerweldHe's not saying 2" solid bar.  He's trying to say 2" box tube with 1/4" wall thickness.
Reply:cows will still waste alot of feed if the bars are straight/vertical, which defeats the4 whole purpose of them.Google feeder panels and explain to the rancher why you have to rebuild the whole mess. Lincoln SA 200Esab Caddy 160Thermal Arc 201TSMiller Dialarc HFI don't like making plans for the day because then the word "premeditated" gets thrown around the courtroom....
Reply:Easiest thing to do would be to find the lowest height piece of rebar. Meausure the same height far right and far left, run a stringline across. If you cut about halfway through the bar and give it a good rap with a hand sledge it will snap right off. Use a 2x3 or a more common size angle and you will have a much better job. A little time spent doing the proper prep will give you a much better job than the proposed cobbled up hack job.Miller xmt304,  Miller S22 p12, Miier Maxstar SD, Miller 252 w 30A, Miller super32p12, Lincoln Ranger 9, Thermal Arc 181I with spoolgun, Hypertherm 10000 ,Smith torches. Esab 161lts miniarc.
Reply:Originally Posted by M J DEasiest thing to do would be to find the lowest height piece of rebar. Meausure the same height far right and far left, run a stringline across. If you cut about halfway through the bar and give it a good rap with a hand sledge it will snap right off. Use a 2x3 or a more common size angle and you will have a much better job. A little time spent doing the proper prep will give you a much better job than the proposed cobbled up hack job.
Reply:Just use 4" x what ever size angle you can get easily  lay it on like your picture shows and just weld to the rebar it won't take that much to hold if you don't weld it the cattle will have it off before you can wrap up your cables. You could drill a few 1" holes in the top of the angle stick the rebar up through the hole and weld around the top. On the long ( tallest rebar) .Or you could drill them all level up the angle weld around the top then cut the tall rebar with a thin fabric cutting disk in a hand grinder .
Reply:I like the idea of running a string line down the re-bars and with a $50 grinder and a stack of cut-off wheels, trimming them all up to the same height (or as close as is necessary for them to be hidden by a 2"x2"x1/4" angle). The angle comes in 20' lengths and when you consider the very small difference in the cost of angle vs. flat bar, I'd buy the angle (there are pennies a pound in price difference between the two). It's going to be tough to keep the flat bar straight if you make your own angle. The factory made angle will look ten times better anyway.  I'd also forget any straps on the back side. If you fill in the gap between the re-bar and angle with weld, I just don't see a need for them. Just make sure you get good penetration and you'll be all set. Sometimes finding a cheaper way of doing something is the same thing as finding the better or simpler way (sometimes its not however). It's for cows so as long as its straight, strong, and you hide your welds behind the angle, I think that farmer will be happy. Good luck, I know it'll come out fine.
Reply:Do you have access to a gas powered concrete saw? Put an abrasive blade on it and chop away. Even with a grinder and cutoff wheels it wouldn't take long to cutoff the bars. Just use decent wheels, thin to win and slice partway thru and they will break clean with a good hit from a hammer.Miller xmt304,  Miller S22 p12, Miier Maxstar SD, Miller 252 w 30A, Miller super32p12, Lincoln Ranger 9, Thermal Arc 181I with spoolgun, Hypertherm 10000 ,Smith torches. Esab 161lts miniarc.
Reply:Welding flat stock into angle isn't productive or cost effective either. You have to get off the idea of painting a Rembrandt for these cows, and the owner wants cheap. The more common angle of the size range will be 2"x4" angle, probably 3/16" and/or 1/4". Get the 3/16ths if you think you need angle. He11, for a cow I'd be out there right now welding flat stock to the rebar. All he wants to do is keep them from impaling themselves on the top and keep them (the rebars) from spreading."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt