Anyone use Harris torch model 50-7?

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Hi I recently made a trade for a used Harris model 50-7 torch, and I can't find an online manual for the model so I thought I would ask some questions here. Here are the questions that currently come to mind.1. I understand it has a screw for a pilot light but  how high should I set the flame at at idle?2. If I turn the pilot screw all the way in, the pilot still lets gas out, is this the way it is supposed to work or should it turn the gas off? Even all the way in the flame sometimes stays lit but I just can't see it. But I know it is lit because when I turn the fuel back up it is still burning.3. Also I have been turning the Oxygen off before I put the torch in pilot light, mode is this method correct?4. And my biggest question is how do I set the regulator to the lower pressure levels when the gauge doesn't even have marks for the pressures I need to weld with?Thanks
Reply:Here are a couple of pictures sorry the one is kinda blurry. It looks like the other Harris model 50 s but I would really like to know what all was changed between this model and the newer ones.
Reply:Another question that came to mind are there any kind of adapters to fit a smaller grade of hose? I am working my way up to sheet metal replacement on my car and it would be nice to have a little less bulk for a little more finesse.
Reply:I have a few of those none the -7 version but basically the same thing I even have one branded eutectic.http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/e.../Model-50.aspxI don't use that pilot light feature but it should shut off all the way when screwed in.  Harris doesn't have much  besides safety stuff in their manuals.  I think you don't use the pilot for rosebud type things, maybe for cutting attachment can't remember.  I bought the seats for one of mine, the ones that the lever operates I had to call harris and get a # and then order it at the welding shop.  They show an h16e and an h16f mixer but there is or was a larger one I think with an F in it not in the catalog.  the h16-2 is just for different size threaded tips or tip tubes.  I don't know if it is custom or just the way the alternate fuel ones are but you will notice a lump on the oxygen side like contains the gas pilot screw.  One of mine has a screw in there so it seems you could get a two speed adjusted torch but like I said I don't use the screws.I don't see any sense getting an adapter, I would cut the hose and make ends that fit if you have an a fitting hose.  You generally can get the same a-a hoses as a-b and use the b end on the torch and use the 3/16 hose as a whip with an adapter on the non torch end if needed.some of the lower number ones are all metal handle not that bakelite or black substance like yours and the more modern ones.  The latest ones have kind of lumps on the knobs to make turning them easier but the lever for the cutting attachment won't fit in the space like the earlier ones.  Odd is acetylene even is alternate fuel,I guess your issue is with the oxygen regulator lots of them adjust much higher than most folks need so the low end suffers. I just blow them, only one gas at a time at my face in the cheek area.  I have previously typed out how to adjust without looking at the regulators as have others and one guy linked to a description over on the hobart forum.  Try the search and see how you do.#3 in the first post, you just release that lever thing and the seats inside close off the passages for both gasses.  The screw thing takes a bypass route.  Probably should only use pilot light feature for single flame stuff, set it as low as you can without it blowing out would seem sensible wouldn't it?Last edited by fran...k.; 01-14-2012 at 09:39 AM.
Reply:Thanks for covering  all that! I think I found the other thread with your post also. Light the torch and adjust the flame from the regulator itself...? It makes me worry about a flame traveling up the hose a little bit, but I will give in a shot. The main problems with the regulators is for both the oxy and ace. The tips I have been using have 0's instead of numbers and seem to go out easily from having too much pressure. And I guess I am going to have to get the 50-7 inspected to see why the flame won't shut of in pilot mode. Again Thanks
Reply:I adjust from the regulators so it is a bit higher so there is some use to the knobs.  Strangely I found an old ,before safety craze like today, instructions stating if the printed numbe for the acetylene didn't work out for you to adjust (regulator)  with wide open acetylene torch knob for a 4x acetylene feather then set desired flame at torch knob.Whast you have pictued appears to be the h16e mixer d50c tip tube and the screw in little brazing tip.  Well the one in the picture is a pretty big one, 0,1,2,and maybe 3 are all the same length then they get longer and bigger except the thread and nut part.  I put here a picture showing some stuff the actual 50-x, x being apparently gone, showing the welding tips (5090 series) the larger mixer set up mentioned in the previous post with a 6 tip.  There are some tips like that with an N on one flat of the nut besides the actual number on another flat.  That tip you are showing is at least as big as the 6 which with that mixer you have would be set both regulators at 6 which shouldn't be beyond the guages.The flame will go out if you shut it off by just letting the lever thing flip to the shut position. As for the leakage it could be either coming past the knob needle valve and lever seat or past the bypass circuit and the screw.  You could just send it out or see there is crud where the fuel needle valve and screw needle valve go.  Like I stated earlier those seats under those big screw things on the back could be suspect, though they are in series with the knob needle valves.  lI would suppose like the last regulator instructions I read, long term storage should relieve the seat sealing parts pressure. Attached ImagesLast edited by fran...k.; 01-15-2012 at 09:54 AM.
Reply:Very good guess on the tip size and tube d-50-c. The tip is a #8 (I bought of lot of them on ebay some of them are still for sale #2- #10 and are a good deal if you might need any). I haven't had any problems with that tip, just the smaller numbers under #2. I guess they are sized for brazing more than for welding. The sheet metal I am practicing on is maybe 20 gauge steel. I burn through it like it's paper but I do a little better with the smaller tips and less heat.I will check any crud around the valve and see how that helps.
Reply:I loosened the fuel valve until they got tight again (which I don't understand why it got tight after it was unscrewed) and then re-tightened . But that did the trick, the leak seams to be gone. Didn't have much luck with the big screws as they wouldn't budge so I just left them alone.  I tried the method you suggested on setting the regulators and it seemed to work until I turned the torch off and re-lit the fuel flame pressure would either be too high or too low. I also tried the dual cut off lever and it works but it gives off a pop. Is that pop normal/safe or might there still be a leak from the pilot?Last edited by jere; 01-17-2012 at 05:01 AM.
Reply:Your torch seems to be in pretty crisp condition so you might not yet have to fuss with those big screw things.  I messed mine up getting them out, next time a little heat to soften the loctite will be in order.  Generally in order to get the needle valve and knob out of a torch you loosen the packing nut and the knob both and work them off together.  They will bind against each other well before dis assembly otherwise.If you let that lever thing snap up it will make a pop and go out most likely if there is even a bit of a leak.  If you let it up gently the oxygen probably will shut off first then the fuel gas.  This way most likely won't pop. Conversely careful pressure on the lever will allow you to light the fuel before the oxygen starts coming out.  Without inspecting it I am not sure if that can be adjusted on the model 50 torch. It doesn't bother me and must be normal but plays into the reason to only use it for stuff with small internal volume.  Just from what I read on here I think it is kind of a trade off which to close first, close acetylene first and get a pop close oxygen first and get no pop but possibility of unburned carbon particles inside the torch.  Harris is the same as Lincoln and do answer the phone pretty well.  They might send  you some stuff in the mail that would come with their latest models of that torch.The re light not being ready to go at exactly the flame setting has to do with the regulators and hoses.  Once you get your steady state flame adjusted it may well take quite a while for that situation to re occur when you start after stopping.  Some regulators creep some seem to flow at lower pressure for a while, better regulators and less hose and larger tips lessen this phenomenon.Last edited by fran...k.; 01-17-2012 at 08:59 AM.Reason: spilled coffee in keyboard leading to sticking keys
Reply:I keep the heat tip in mind for removing the valves that makes good sense. I will give Lincoln a call and see what they say too.About the regulators I am just happy to have a basic idea where they should read, just a hair off of the peg. There is a good amount of difference from where I was setting the pressures before.  Thanks
Reply:Jere,    I have four Harris model 50 torches; a "50-3", a "50-2", and two "50"s.  Finding one of these at a garage sale in a box of stuff marked "$6" is what started my intrest in OF.    To adjust your torch, first turn off both knobs, turn both bleed valves all of the way in (lightly!), and squeeze and lock the lever.  Next, open the acetylene bleed valve one or two turns.  Then, open the knobs and adjust your torch for welding like normal.  After this, slowly release the lever.  A pure acetylene flame should then appear at the tip.  You may need to adjust the acetylene bleed valve out further to get enough flow to keep the flame burning, depending on the condition of the torch and the size of the tip.    Then, add oxygen to the tip by opening the oxygen bleed valve until you get a neutral flame.  Adjust the two bleed valves to get a stable flame at the tip that is as small as the tip will allow without burning back.  Next, test your torch by squeezing the lever and releasing it.  You may need to adjust the bleed valves to get a good transition between the idle and working flames.  Keep in mind that you can use a smaller idle flame if you operate the lever slowly.  Also, you may need to readjust your welding flame after adjusting the bleed valves.    Keep in mind that the torch knobs always override both the bleed valves and the valves controlled by the lever.  Turining them off will completely turn off the torch.  Also, your bleed valves should be able to completely shut off the flow of gas with the lever released.  If they can't, then they may need to be replaced, the seats may need to be recut, or the torch may just need to be cleaned to remove acetylene-residue buildup.  Also, the flame should never disappear from view at the tip.  If it burns into the torch it can cause damage.                                                                                       Sincerely,                                                                                       taylorcraft1947
Reply:Taylorcraft1947, thanks for covering that, that explains a lot.
Reply:This bleed screw and idle flame business is confusing.  Look at the top picture near the number 7 is a plug and to the right is what I assume is getting called the fuel bleed valve.  The 50-10 (that I have) has a screw where that plug is and raised letters OX but all the other versions I have seen are like those pictured here. pilot fuel gas screw, plug in the other spot.
Reply:Sorry, I now see that all of the torches pictured above have the oxygen screw blanked out.  My "50" and "50-2" torches have this same setup with only one screw (and no spot in the casting for another screw).  My model 50-3 has two screws, one marked "gas" and the other marked "ox".  However, I think that the 50-3 is for alternative fuels.  It could be that all of the acetylene models have only one bleed screw.  I assumed that Harris added the second screw to all of the newer model "50"s after the "50-2."  Anyway, the singe bleed screw torches adjust the same way as the two screw torches, you just can't add oxygen to the idle flame.    Also, I find that my single screw torches make quite a mess when you let them burn at idle for a while.  They soot up the tip and the room.