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I am a complete rookie, so please humor me a bit.I need a stick welder (I think). I want it to be able to run either 6010 or 6011. The duty cycle of the Thunderbolt and the modern tombstone are pretty dismal.So, I have been looking at cheap inverters.Out of the cheap inverters, Esab claims that their 161LTS has adequate 6010 performance. Lincoln claims the V155-S has good 6011 performance through the use of the switchable soft/crisp arc force switch.While I would rather have 6010 capabilty, the switchable arc force intrigues me. Is it really that big of a deal?(PS: Speaking of cheap inverters and 6010, I realize that one of the Everlast machines has a 6010 port. However, I am really only looking at Miller, Lincoln, Thermal Arc, and Esab right now.)
Reply:I use the are force on my V350-Pro at +9.5 for open root pipe. But for everything else I use it more like an inductance control. It's pretty cool, and gives a lot of control over the puddle, but look how many years we went with out it.Dont pay any attention to meIm just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by WolfmanI am a complete rookie, so please humor me a bit.I need a stick welder (I think). I want it to be able to run either 6010 or 6011. The duty cycle of the Thunderbolt and the modern tombstone are pretty dismal.So, I have been looking at cheap inverters.Out of the cheap inverters, Esab claims that their 161LTS has adequate 6010 performance. Lincoln claims the V155-S has good 6011 performance through the use of the switchable soft/crisp arc force switch.While I would rather have 6010 capabilty, the switchable arc force intrigues me. Is it really that big of a deal?(PS: Speaking of cheap inverters and 6010, I realize that one of the Everlast machines has a 6010 port. However, I am really only looking at Miller, Lincoln, Thermal Arc, and Esab right now.)
Reply:You can run Thunderchickens(and close relatives) and Lincoln Radios(and close relatives) seemingly all day long at reasonable amps 90-140.I've glued many a BBQ, swamp buggy and wood stove together and waited and waited and waited for them to fail. Maybe a poll is in order ! ?Who here has ever fried a "big four" transformer type buzz box ? Heard of one fried ? Know someone who said they knew someone who knew a guy that toasted one ?Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:If your a hobbyist the tombstone or thunderbolt will do fine for you and last a lot longer than other new ones. I've burned up to 20 1/8" sticks w/ my thunderbolt only stopping long enough to change sticks. If you'll be welding on prooduction all day then yeah, you might need something better. MikeOl' Stonebreaker "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:I fried an old Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC. It no overheat protection and I was in a rush welding on a loader cutting edge with 5/32 12018s. I was cruising right along, stopping only to swap rods. Halfway done, my machine stopped welding and simply made a humming noise. I learned my lesson, and my next welder had built in overheat protection. I'm also more conscious of my duty cycle and amperage.Lincoln Precision Tig 185Lincoln Power Mig 256Hypertherm PM 45Everlast 140STSmith O/A
Reply:Ok, this is turning into a transformer vs inverter thread. I didn't intend for that to happen.What I really want to know is: Is the soft/crisp switch on the Lincoln V155-S actually useful? Or, is it just hype on a low dollar machine like that? If it is just hype, I will just get the Esab, be able to run 6010, and save a couple hundred dollars.As far as duty cycle is concerned:Lincoln Invertec V155-S30% @ 145A - 100% @ 100ALincoln AC/DC 225"The 60 Hz welders are rated 20% duty cycle for the welding current shown on each switch position."Miller Maxstar S30% @ 150A - 100% @ 100AMiller Thunderbolt XL 225/150 AC/DC30% @ 120A - 100% @ 65AHowever, duty cycle isn't everything. Quality of arc matters also.
Reply:Originally Posted by WolfmanOk, this is turning into a transformer vs inverter thread. I didn't intend for that to happen.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveDang, I missed my chance to brag on big, old, ugly, power hungry, perfectly operating transformer welders...
Reply:As stated above, the arc force is used for open butt root welding on pipe with 6010. The rod has a tendency to stick and go out when you try to jam it in a tight gap on soft setting. Put it on crisp and you're good to go. If you plan on pipe welding with 6010, then you need it. Otherwise you can get by fine without it.Last edited by TimmyTIG; 11-17-2013 at 11:10 PM.
Reply:When you are adjusting arc force you are changing the slope of the volt amp curve. On older larger machines changing ranges but keeping the same amp setting will result in a different slope. Arc force is a Lincoln term. Crisp will get you large increases in amperage when you reduce the arc gap and a large decrease when you increase the gap. Soft is the reverse. ( small changes in amps)An example of an extreme soft setting is when you are using TIG and you don't want radical changes in amperage with arc gap.Miller has a different term than Lincoln... Can't think of it now. Many of the larger old transformer rectifiers had crisp soft adjustment. All inverters I have ever seen have the arc control. I like especially with cellulose rods since you can adjust amperage instantly by going long or short on the arc. With low hydrogen E 7018 you can't change arc length much or you lose shielding. read this article and get thoroughly confused LOLhttp://www.millerwelds.com/resources...rticle108.htmlLast edited by lotechman; 11-18-2013 at 12:02 AM.Reason: additional info
Reply:I've only run a hand full of machines with arc force. (2) Lincoln V350-Pros, Lincoln 305G, Miller Dynasty 300. Everlast PA-200, Longevity Stickweld 250. By far the Lincolns were the best. My Dynasty 300 just plain sucks on SMAW! My Everlast PA-200 has automatic arc force, if I really pay attention I can tell it is there. The Longevity Stickweld 250 didn't have near the range as the Lincolns.Dont pay any attention to meIm just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Miller calls their arc force ( dig) . The only time I really change my setting is for air arc (set it to max ). I don't use 6010, so I set it around 20-30 and it works well on 7018 and it is also inductance on mig, with the XMT. I do believe the control on Lincolns (350 pro ) have more effect on the arc than the Millers do.Miller xmt304, Miller S22 p12, Miier Maxstar SD, Miller 252 w 30A, Miller super32p12, Lincoln Ranger 9, Thermal Arc 181I with spoolgun, Hypertherm 10000 ,Smith torches. Esab 161lts miniarc.
Reply:Originally Posted by BurpeeYou can run Thunderchickens(and close relatives) and Lincoln Radios(and close relatives) seemingly all day long at reasonable amps 90-140.I've glued many a BBQ, swamp buggy and wood stove together and waited and waited and waited for them to fail. Maybe a poll is in order ! ?Who here has ever fried a "big four" transformer type buzz box ? Heard of one fried ? Know someone who said they knew someone who knew a guy that toasted one ?
Reply:I own a V155S and the arc force is helpful. I bought it for a potable tig, but it has no remote. I then bought a used V160-S that takes a foot pedal. This is the Tig I take into kitchens and stuff for stainless. Smooth means a low spatter slower cooling puddle.Crisp is more POP sounds from the arc and possibly more spatter. It seems to be faster cooling for out of position. I only run 7018 on this welder. I did a review of the machine a while back. DavidTry this http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...-V155-S-ReviewLast edited by David R; 11-19-2013 at 07:09 PM.Real world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I have a Miller syncrowave 250 and I believe they call that a DIG function. I'm still new to welding but have done a great deal of stick recently. I noticed there is a BIG difference between the transformer and inverter machines especially when doing vertical or overhead welding. It's more of a technique issue than one of the machine but an difference worth mentioning. I found the Lincoln at the school (225 I think) is very smooth and responds to the adjustment very nicely BUT because I learned on a transformer machine I tend to bury the electrode to control the heat. This action seems to but a hurting on that arc control circuit as it gradually gets harder and harder to get the edges to tie in. It takes some time to cool that machine down before being able to continue. Don't get me wrong the machine welds but just not as smooth as it did at the start. Like I said MY improper technique that causes the issue but I thought I'd mention it. Obviously I don't have this issue with my Miller as it's the machine I learned on. I like the DIG function because I can control the puddle (read arc force) better when doing out of position welds and I don't get the sticking of the electrode when I bury the tip.GizzmoSyncrowave 250 CK aircooled tig
Reply:What's a duty cycle? Miller 300a...can you call it semi-portable?Sorry, no real information, or meat contained within this post.Chay
Reply:Arc force explained. 1957 Lincoln arc welding handbook ... "with a welding machine with modern controls, the weldor does not need to compromise."I saw an Italian inverter machine that had adjustable arc force knob. One one end of the scale was a smiley face. On the other, an angry face. Last edited by Oldendum; 11-20-2013 at 12:48 PM."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Yep - "all that is old is new again" - paraphrased from I know not who. Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by OldendumArc force explained. 1957 Lincoln arc welding handbook ...
Reply:Yes, the Procedure Handbook of Arc Welding Design and Practice. Got it at a thrift store for 50 cents. It even has an old product insert stapled in the back behind the index.It also has a pretty good explanation of why heavily coated electrodes are better than bare coat hanger wire. "USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:50 cents! dang you got a better deal than I did on a used copy. I forget now what I paid, but it wasn't much. I think shipping cost me more than the book did. The vast majority of the stuff in the book is still good even if it's not the latest version..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:That book is one of my bedside readers. My old Machinery's Handbook was a little boring and got to smelling funny. Given the current political climate, I guess I should read my 2-volume set of "The Modern Gunsmith" by Howe, 1941 edition. That one was free."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:WOW! I got egg on my face. I bought my Procedure Handbook in the early 70s, seems as I paid $19.00 for it at the welding supply. Looks like I got took to the cleaners! Attached ImagesDont pay any attention to meIm just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:CEP, you did get ripped off. Mine is red and even has a longer title. But it's printed on what appears to be a thick but low-grade toilet paper. I hope the yellow-brown around the edges is from age and not use."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welderOriginally Posted by OldendumCEP, you did get ripped off.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPWOW! I got egg on my face. I bought my Procedure Handbook in the early 70s, seems as I paid $19.00 for it at the welding supply. Looks like I got took to the cleaners!
Reply:I got all of yall beat, I got mine for FREE.
Reply:I change my arc force on my vantage from time to time and am glad to have the feature. I weld pipe, which seems to be the primary demographic for changing arc force. I would use it on the invertecs and the cst280's and XMT's I used. Can I weld without arc control? of course, but why not use the features I paid for.Local 597
Reply:I use mine on my XMT 304 when I weld pipe with 6010 root. |
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发表于 2021-8-31 23:18:25