Which rail design would you pick?

admin

That is assuming you even like the design enough to want to pick one. These were sent to a customer, yesterday, who has already committed to a 7'-10" piece of rail with the mountain design in it. It's very similar to one I did a couple of years ago. I haven't heard back yet about which one they like. I'm curious to see who likes what.Last edited by app-ironworksllc; 08-16-2012 at 01:45 PM.Brian LeonardAppalachian Ironworks L.L.C.434 Long Branch Rd, Marshall, NC 28753828 649 9966828 702 [email protected]
Reply:I like #3. it kinda looks almost 3 dimensional . One is my next choice. Is the entire design going to be clearly seen ,or some landscape blocking it  ?
Reply:Originally Posted by BD1I like #3. it kinda looks almost 3 dimensional . One is my next choice. Is the entire design going to be clearly seen ,or some landscape blocking it  ?
Reply:# 1 is a finger pincher. people running there hand along the top may get them wedged. just my 2 cents. all are nice though, great design.
Reply:Originally Posted by steeleman# 1 is a finger pincher. people running there hand along the top may get them wedged. just my 2 cents. all are nice though, great design.
Reply:Pinch-points and meeting the 4" sphere fence/rail test, only one that looks like it 'passes' is #1.And even there I'm not sure the mountain design element (looks nice btw) set that low into the fence/rail will meet the 4" sphere test.2nd floor rail?  I'd go for the picket section as ~36" tall and set the design element (~12" tall) on top of that for a total final top height of ~48".  Codes specify minimum 42" height for balcony guard rails (not stair rails!!!).  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:I like #3
Reply:Originally Posted by MoonRisePinch-points and meeting the 4" sphere fence/rail test, only one that looks like it 'passes' is #1.And even there I'm not sure the mountain design element (looks nice btw) set that low into the fence/rail will meet the 4" sphere test.2nd floor rail?  I'd go for the picket section as ~36" tall and set the design element (~12" tall) on top of that for a total final top height of ~48".  Codes specify minimum 42" height for balcony guard rails (not stair rails!!!).
Reply:#3.  Where are the little skiers and mountain goats and ski-doos and stuff? "USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Brian,Double-check the height requirements.  Residential or commercial the 'balcony' stuff is pretty much the same height requirements AFAIK.Handrails (stairs)  heights are 36" +/- 2" above the 'surface', plus all the other specs.But 'balcony' stuff (decks, balconies, widow's walks, etc) are 42" minimum (but watch out for the stair requirements if the two 'areas' connect).   The 36" height for balcony/deck rails hasn't been the spec for a while now (circa 1970 in a lot of places, per some web references I saw).http://inspectapedia.com/interiors/S...rdrailings.htmAs always, YMMV based on your locale's 'Codes'.  Glad to hear you checked the 4" spacing for the design area of the rail.  I have seen a bunch of 'decorative' rails/gates/etc around that look like they aren't even close.  Makes me shudder picturing a kid sticking their head through there and then getting trapped or worse.Please post some more pics of the project.  I enjoy looking at your work, as you seem to have a nice eye for design and proportions.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Originally Posted by MoonRiseBrian,Double-check the height requirements.  Residential or commercial the 'balcony' stuff is pretty much the same height requirements AFAIK.Handrails (stairs)  heights are 36" +/- 2" above the 'surface', plus all the other specs.But 'balcony' stuff (decks, balconies, widow's walks, etc) are 42" minimum (but watch out for the stair requirements if the two 'areas' connect).   The 36" height for balcony/deck rails hasn't been the spec for a while now (circa 1970 in a lot of places, per some web references I saw).http://inspectapedia.com/interiors/S...rdrailings.htmAs always, YMMV based on your locale's 'Codes'.  Glad to hear you checked the 4" spacing for the design area of the rail.  I have seen a bunch of 'decorative' rails/gates/etc around that look like they aren't even close.  Makes me shudder picturing a kid sticking their head through there and then getting trapped or worse.Please post some more pics of the project.  I enjoy looking at your work, as you seem to have a nice eye for design and proportions.
Reply:If its going to be elevated ala billboard, then I would like option 5 - people are naturally drawn to symmetry .When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, "This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know," the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives.
Reply:Originally Posted by Oldendum#3.  Where are the little skiers and mountain goats and ski-doos and stuff?
Reply:Originally Posted by BD1I like #3. it kinda looks almost 3 dimensional . One is my next choice. Is the entire design going to be clearly seen ,or some landscape blocking it  ?
Reply:I really like #3 thats my vote But if I had to make it for a bid job I would go with #2 a lot easier to make and I think a little stronger www.georgesplasmacuttershop.comPlasma Cutter and Welder Sales and Repairs--Ebay storeTec.Mo. Dealer Consumables for the PT and IPT torch's
Reply:I voted #1, the others just seem to take away from the design in one way or the other... if I had to pick a 2nd choice it'd be #5 considering how high up it will be, centered is next best thing to #1 I thinkmiller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:# 3I like the look of 1 but fingers will get brokenDave ReberWadsworth Ohio
Reply:As it's the second floor and you're trying to draw the eye. I would have liked to see an option 6 with the design on the bottom and the balasters coming off of it like in 3 and 4. Here's why. As you've already got to look up to see it, having the design at the bottom catches the eye first. Then having the bars going straight off the design makes the rest of the rails look like it's meant to be sky. gives it a pretty nice effect. not just drawing the eye up to the rail but actually bringing it up further to look at the rest of the house.I picked three because I don't like the centered look without the top bar above the design, and well, I don't like the look with the bar above the design. not sure that makes sense. but visually I think 3 is better than 4. Almost makes it look like a sunset scene.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:I'm looking forward to what is the customers choice. I bet the customers taste isn't as good as ours !
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerAs it's the second floor and you're trying to draw the eye. I would have liked to see an option 6 with the design on the bottom and the balasters coming off of it like in 3 and 4. Here's why. As you've already got to look up to see it, having the design at the bottom catches the eye first. Then having the bars going straight off the design makes the rest of the rails look like it's meant to be sky. gives it a pretty nice effect. not just drawing the eye up to the rail but actually bringing it up further to look at the rest of the house.I picked three because I don't like the centered look without the top bar above the design, and well, I don't like the look with the bar above the design. not sure that makes sense. but visually I think 3 is better than 4. Almost makes it look like a sunset scene.
Reply:I like #1 best, both for ease of building and aesthetics as well. I'm sure what ever you do they will be pleased as that is a solid design and they all look great.
Reply:app-i  -  Option 3.5, add a bottom horizon  -  Opus
Reply:#1 seems to be the easiest to build, dont have to go through the hassle of lining up the top and bottom straight pickets. honestly though its a lot like mulling over different paint swatches of the same damn color, in the end they're all so similar that it really wont matter. i used to stress over details like this (sometimes still do, usually when i'm procrastinating) but have found that often one design isnt better than the other and it saves a lot of time and frustration to just pick one, based on something like easiest to build or easiest to paint.
Reply:Originally Posted by BD1I'm looking forward to what is the customers choice. I bet the customers taste isn't as good as ours !
Reply:the design all the way at the bottom does also sound like it would be very nicemiller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....Nice designs. I'd go #3, but, and this is just to my eye, I'd drop the scene about 1-2" and put a slight "ripple" in the straight bar, below the scene. The straight line takes a little away from it and a little bit of random waviness would give the appearance of the ground. Just my thoughts. And to make the scene stand out, you could PC the gate black or white and tape off the none scene bits and paint or PC the scene a different color to make it pop. Forest green maybe, or rust brown. Don't go nuts painting the water blue and sun yellow, etc.. It will make it look craft in a hurry. Nice having clients that will let you show them that gates don't have to be like in prison and it doesn't cost that much more, really.Let us know what they go with.BTW200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:as an aside, around here I think #4 and #5 would get a no go due to the "foot hold" the design presents. I've done some really crazy, not a straight pick to be had type stuff. We always warn the client if it is going to be inspected. Sometimes the inspector looks at it and loves it and turns a blind eye, other times we set-screw on plexi panels for the inspection. Client can choose what happens to the panels after the final........ 200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:I think #1 is the most aesthetically pleasing, nice job on the design http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:If I was buying it, I'd want #3. If I was building it, I'd want #2.Last edited by whiskeyrichard; 08-17-2012 at 12:45 AM.Miller TrailBlazer 301Miller 12rc feederMiller ShopmasterMiller 22a feederPlasmaCam CNC TableHypertherm 45 cutterDrills, saws, blast cabinets etc.
Reply:#3.  It has more of a depth apearance to it.  Some what 3D.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:I went # OneTo me , it draws your eye to the detail rather than the balustrade as a whole.It seems you have to have a straight line at the bottom , whilst I can appreciate the craftsmanship of the cut in balusters it looks a bit messy.Compliancy issues aside I would like to see a pic of the completed job if the client is comfortable with you posting it .BrettA good guess is better than a bad measurement
Reply:Originally Posted by bert the welderas an aside, around here I think #4 and #5 would get a no go due to the "foot hold" the design presents. I've done some really crazy, not a straight pick to be had type stuff. We always warn the client if it is going to be inspected. Sometimes the inspector looks at it and loves it and turns a blind eye, other times we set-screw on plexi panels for the inspection. Client can choose what happens to the panels after the final........
Reply:last i heard, in the us the ladder effect is basically considered a dead issue.  the main proponent was a retired civil engineer who has since died. as i understand it, very few people on building codes commissions ever truly believed it was a problem. it was added to the 2000 codes, then removed in 2001 iirc, so some areas may still be using older codes and some inspectors may still consider it a problem.   it was a huge deal with nomma, but my membership expired about a year ago  so i havent heard anything lately.  i never understood why chain link fences were never considered a climbing hazard, i suspect theres waaay too much money involved for anyone to try and tackle that.  i know we used to climb chain link fences all the time, and fell off the damn things with about the same frequency.
Reply:#3 is my vote. I wondered how closely the proportion between the top and the bottom corespond to the golden ration, 1.61 etc. I frequently apply this when I have a proportion decision to make and it always looks just about right, good figure.
Reply:#3. i voted for this as i used to make alot of these and number 3 is what i would build and i definitly think thats what the customer would like. numbers 1 and 2 are just to close to the top for the design to stand out, and 4 and 5 i think it would end up looking upside down, and it wouldnt stand out alot being on a secong story balconycheersBrendan
Reply:My vote for #3!
Reply:I keep checking this posting so much that I'm gonna build  # 3
Reply:Originally Posted by app-ironworksllcYou guys have the "ladder effect" sentence codified? It's working its way through the many jurisdictions down here slowly. Not a ton of places have it yet, but give it time. Can you still do cable rails? I'm guessing not.
Reply:Originally Posted by Gjertson#3 is my vote. I wondered how closely the proportion between the top and the bottom corespond to the golden ration, 1.61 etc. I frequently apply this when I have a proportion decision to make and it always looks just about right, good figure.
Reply:app-iThere is a larger lesson for everyone in the tie for #1 and #2 from another forum.  Builders and Contractors are cost driven, not design driven; this is the foremost reason for the plethora of poor metal work.  I don't do work for either, because they think architecture is a race to the bottom-line.The enduring value in a project is the design, this is why I onlycollaborate with the client, designer, or architect.     Opus
Reply:Originally Posted by OPUS FERROapp-iThere is a larger lesson for everyone in the tie for #1 and #2 from another forum.  Builders and Contractors are cost driven, not design driven; this is the foremost reason for the plethora of poor metal work.  I don't do work for either, because they think architecture is a race to the bottom-line.The enduring value in a project is the design, this is why I onlycollaborate with the client, designer, or architect.     Opus
Reply:Cool! Congrats!As for the contractors/builders. I've found that the further up the scale you go, the more design counts. Once you pass the line where a real designer is in the mix( not some bored executive house wife that took a weekend decorating course to impress her "friends" .....) design is a main focus. Just my experience. Once your in the private jet clients, anything goes.200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:making some progress, have to have it at the powder coater's by the morning. I'm already a day late. Brian LeonardAppalachian Ironworks L.L.C.434 Long Branch Rd, Marshall, NC 28753828 649 9966828 702 [email protected]
Reply:All done, except for the powder coat.The h.o.'s picked a dark grey metallic that matches the mortar of their home. Brian LeonardAppalachian Ironworks L.L.C.434 Long Branch Rd, Marshall, NC 28753828 649 9966828 702 [email protected]
Reply:Very good job !
Reply:The only thing I'd change if I were the HO is I'd add pannel/s to the back side of the "mountains" and sun. I'd probably have each "mountain" be a slightly different color to make it stand out from the others. This would bring that extra pop, and eliminate the "trees through the mountain" effect from the backside. but it still looks great.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Awesome ! We did good with our #3 pick. Looks great. That must have been time consuming.
Reply:I Love your Work Brian!   I chose #3.Not to get all mushy.....  but your work inspired me to start doing Ornamental rails and Gates, I did one last year and it sno-balled out of control, I got jobs lined up for months, and today I just finished my biggest job yet, 140' of Ornamental Rails 4 sets of stair rails and 1 spiral stair case.  Please keep posting pics of your work.....I live in the Appalachian mauntains too, I would love to do a "Appalachian" Style rail....Maybe on my house one day.Some Blue , Some Red & Some GreyProverbs 16:2-3.2 "All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord. 3 Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans."
Reply:Nice drawing with steel!Miller Syncrowave 180SDLincoln WeldPak 100 with gasHandheld Milwaukee BandsawO/A Cutting Torch
Reply:Beautiful work, I'd love to try to do something like that, looks great! http://www.philswelding.com