Costs to get into welding

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Newbie alert here.I have done woodworking, some lath and mill work, all hobby stuff. I now am thinking of taking up welding as a hobby to add into my bag of tricks.The lathe and mill with accessories put me in pretty deep but was well worth the effort and cost, I know welding is not going to come close to that but what do I really need to start out and get something welded.Let's say my plans are to weld up a welding table, fix up the rider mower with a new deck that needs some brackets welded on, fix up a bit of body work on the car and weld in new sheet metal instead of just bondo. Mostly small stuff, The welding table could end up being 3/8" plate on some square tube.I know I need a welder, would a stick do for most things to keep it cheap and really help me learn? I need a helmet, gloves, rods, what else is going to get me started that I need to consider in my overall costs?Thanks in advance for all replies.SteveCheck out MyShopNotes on youtube.
Reply:Lots of buzz boxes on craiglist for $100 but they aren't good for welding thin sheet metal, or aluminum. My advice to you is buy a Hobart 210 or Ironman 230. Both will weld thick,thin, aluminum(with a spool gun) and stainless. Also you can weld with flux cored out side and it's very much like stick welding.One machine to do it all.The 210 is $900 at Northern tool and the Ironman is $1550. The 210 is more portable than the Ironman and is rated for 3/8 metal on a single pass. The Ironman is much bigger and is rated for 1/2 inch with a single pass. I have the 210 because I needed portability, it has worked well for me. Both welders are basic simple welders with no digital readouts to burn out. I'm not a fan of digital junk on my welders, very expensive to get repaired.
Reply:Besides the hood, gloves etc figure in a 4 1/2" grinder minimum for preping material.As far as machine cost, that can vary over a very wide range. Cheapest way to get in is to find an old AC only transformer stick welder. Around me I've seen them on CL for between $50-150. The AC/Dc units run more money. Problem is stick is a poor choice for sheet metal because it's a hot process. These are also 230v machines. I'll get to that in a bit.Mig/ Flux core wire is a bit easier to learn and works better in thin material. Problem is mig machines that will do material thicker than 1/8" are not as inexpensive. Avoid the flux core only units. To do thin material you really need gas mig and solid wire. 110v FC only units have a small range that they work well in below 1/16" they are too hot, above 1/8" they don't have the power. They do make 110v/ 230v units, but they are very expensive.  Keep in mind that 110v migs top out at 1/8" even if the manufacturers lit says they can weld thicker. However for art projects and noncritical things like a table, you can stretch them some. Just be aware that they jsut glue metal together at those thicknesses and duty cycle is very low. I've seen small 110v migs go for reasonable prices used. Guys usually have discovered their error and moved up to bigger machines that will do both thin and thick materials. Used 230v migs pop up from time to time. There's really too wide a price range to give you a sold idea on cost. Under $700-900 should get you a nice 180 amp 230v mig new, and the  dual voltage units tack on another few hundred plus cylinder.  I'd highly recommend you look at a 230v mig if you think about going this route. It's cheaper in the long run than buying once then upgrading later.230v power scares some guys. They think they can't get it easily. However if your home uses an electric dryer, you are already set for 230v power. All you need is an extension cord. Tranny stick machines won't run full power on 30 amps, but they will give you enough power to run 3/32" rods that's more than enough for most home projects. The dryer will power almost all homeowner grade migs full power.Last option is Oxy acetylene. Lost of artists use OA for all sorts of things. You can heat and bend with it. Cut. Weld or braze. You don't need huge cylinders, but the really small sets you find in home stores are really too small for most work. You can get really really tiny torches for fine detailed work, and a lot of artists use these for wire sculptures and jewelry. Bigger torch sets can be a bit clunkier, but will do the job. Used with cylinders and torch, I see them in the sub $350 range on occasion. Make sure the torch will take welding tips and isn't just a cutting torch. OA is a very versitle option, but it does take a bit to learn.You might think hard about starting out taking a night class at a local high school or community college. When you add up what it will cost you for gas, wire, rod, electric and so on, not to mention instruction, a class is stupid cheap. Around me it breaks down to about $11.50 an hour of class for all the material you can use. You also get a chance often to play with all the processes, mig, stick, OA and even tig. Tig is much like OA welding but using an arc. It's a favorite of artists who want really clean small welds that don't show up. However the process is more expensive on average, and the skill level to do it well is much higher..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I'm sure you'll get a lot of replies depending on what everyone's preferences are, but my recommendation would be to go with a decent MIG machine.  It is fairly versatile unless you want to do very thin material and alloys such as aluminum.  I would not go for a cheap box store flux core version but one where you can using welding gas and make nice clean welds.  You can make the welding table, welder cart, etc. and save some $$ that way, but I would not scrimp on the welder, even if it is for hobby type stuff.  I'm a hobby welder myself and work on a lot of the same type of things you mention.  I did some research as I was looking at a cheap stick or wire feed machine, but went with a MillerMatic 211.  I have not regretted my choice and am really enjoying welding with this machine."All of this and some of that's the only way to skin the cat!"
Reply:My .02 - since you have a mill and lathe I'm going to assume you are precision minded.So I say go straight to tig and have fun with it. One of my friends does machining as a hobby and is super happy that he switched to tig.If not, a nice mig would be my second choice.On second thought - mig and tig...and a torch...yeah that will do Last edited by MinnesotaDave; 03-19-2014 at 09:45 PM.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:I agree on the MILLER 211 as Bipestuff stated. It's in the current rebate program too which ends this month. http://www.millerwelds.com/landing/build-with-blue/  . Might be worth considering since you will need accessories too. The 211 and a AC / DC stick welder and you'll be set.
Reply:Thanks for the info so far everyone.I have a grinder to prep metal and clean up welds. I don't have a helmet, gloves, enough clamps, welding rods or any other consumable supplies. What other supplies are needed?A high school night school thing just doesn't happen here it seems, I can fork out $700 per class and get into college level classes to become a welder, not something I'm willing to spend on.I'm not afraid of 220v, I run my compressor, tablesaw and some heating on 220v, my buddy, who moved away (darn), used my shop power to weld up all the bodywork on my old van. I have 20 and 30 amp 220 outlets readily available. I am running a 60 amp breaker off my main panel into my house and can goto 100amps if needed.My problem is, I don't want to spend a ton of money on a welder, then drop another bunch of money on extras. Can I grab a used $50 stick welder, and weld up a welding table of 3/8-1/2 thick steel to some angle or square tubing, let's forget about auto body repair. I will be welbing things at least 1/8" thick. Can I just use OA and get it done and possibly learn the hard way? If I can do it on the cheap then I can spend the $ on outfitting my tools and eventually buy a real welder when I need it.It almost seems for my use a OA setup would do a ton of stuff for me, I actually have a small OA set my buddy gave me that I've used to heat some work up when the propane torch wouldn't handle the job.Time to hit up youtube and learn about OA welding.SteveCheck out MyShopNotes on youtube.
Reply:Originally Posted by schorMy problem is, I don't want to spend a ton of money on a welder, then drop another bunch of money on extras. Can I grab a used $50 stick welder, and weld up a welding table of 3/8-1/2 thick steel to some angle or square tubing, let's forget about auto body repair. I will be welbing things at least 1/8" thick.
Reply:Originally Posted by schorI have a grinder to prep metal and clean up welds. I don't have a helmet, gloves, enough clamps, welding rods or any other consumable supplies. What other supplies are needed?
Reply:Ajax ?  Is that in Ontario ?  Or do you live where they make the kitchen cleaner ? Prices on machines and equipment vary by location. By me in Northern Illinois $250.00 is about average for a decent buzz box. I would consider a AC/DC machine over a AC only. The AC only will be less expensive. I don't like the fixed taps and would suggest a MILLER THUNDERBOLT. There are many out there it's just a matter of finding one.
Reply:You already know "cost effective-on the cheap" is false hope when dealing with hobbies in the crafts that require machinery.Plan on devoting a minimum of $5,000 over the next 24 months into your new addiction. Normally I'd say 10-15 but you already have "stuff" feeding your other addictions ...tapes, squares, levels, extension cords,clamps, safety glasses,drill, drill bits,on on on on on on on.Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:Originally Posted by BurpeeYou already know "cost effective-on the cheap" is false hope when dealing with hobbies in the crafts that require machinery.Plan on devoting a minimum of $5,000 over the next 24 months into your new addiction. Normally I'd say 10-15 but you already have "stuff" feeding your other addictions ...tapes, squares, levels, extension cords,clamps, safety glasses,drill, drill bits,on on on on on on on.
Reply:Nothing wrong with oxy/fuel - that's what I bought first when I got out of the Air Force in '94.Then some bigger stuff needed fixing and I bought a stick welder.Small mig next.Big mig.Engine driveHuge tigEngine driveInverter stick welder....etc...Getting the picture  Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.