Trailer axle welding info please

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hey guys im in need of some info. i bought a 3500# axle kit to use with my 2x2 1/4 wall square tube . when welding the spindles up to the sqaure tube do i just weld it on the outside edge only ? or do i drill a hole in the square tube so i can fill the hole in with weld so it wont slide out to help on the outside weld ? any info would be great .BTW what a great site !
Reply:i have square tube spindles to match the sqaure tube i have
Reply:Then go all the way around..If done right that's all you will need...I could not understand the post at first.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:np .......ok so just welding the outside edge is enough .
Reply:Originally Posted by nycutlassnp .......ok so just welding the outside edge is enough .
Reply:would you mind explaining when you say do it right ?............i pulled spindles out 1/4 inch and did 2 passes with my mig .35 wire on it .
Reply:Originally Posted by nycutlasswould you mind explaining when you say do it right ?............i pulled spindles out 1/4 inch and did 2 passes with my mig .35 wire on it .
Reply:yes a lincoln 110v mig .it can weld 1/4 inch with .35 wire with no issue at all !
Reply:Oh boy..NO!!110 will not do at all..Not for what you are doing..Stop and put the gun down.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:ok explain please then .i know for a fact the machine can weld 1/4 inch with no problem .if there is another reason please tell me .i just joined this site,did i mess something when i signed up that we need to be a pro ?
Reply:No that mig will not do 1/4" "well". Your weld is cold and did not bond well with the base material..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:why does the machine say it can weld 1/4 inch when i called lincoln to verify this they said yes it canLast edited by nycutlass; 02-23-2012 at 10:57 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by nycutlassok explain please then .i know for a fact the machine can weld 1/4 inch with no problem .if there is another reason please tell me .i just joined this site,did i mess something when i signed up that we need to be a pro ?
Reply:please post a couple pictures of the weld, We are concerned about the ability to properly fuse and penetrate 1/4 material with the amperage you have available from the 110 MIG. Won't be able to tell if penetration is absolute and proper if welds are close, but will know instantly if they are not even close. 1/4 material with most 110 MIGs even in the hands of experienced and skilled mechanics has shown to be rare here. But many have cheap knock off machines. Did you use Flux core or Hard wire with gas shielding?"Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DCMillermatic 251   Syncrowave 300   30A spoolgunLincoln MP210Hypertherm 45(2) LN 25(2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV(4) SA200   1 short hood    SA250    SAM 400
Reply:Would be safer to drilla hole and put a bolt through. To see how good a 110 mig is on 1/4" lay your weld then saw across it and inspect the penetrationMillermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:Originally Posted by kolotplease post a couple pictures of the weld, We are concerned about the ability to properly fuse and penetrate 1/4 material with the amperage you have available from the 110 MIG. Won't be able to tell if penetration is absolute and proper if welds are close, but will know instantly if they are not even close. 1/4 material with most 110 MIGs even in the hands of experienced and skilled mechanics has shown to be rare here. But many have cheap knock off machines. Did you use Flux core or Hard wire with gas shielding?
Reply:Originally Posted by nycutlasswould you mind explaining when you say do it right ?............i pulled spindles out 1/4 inch and did 2 passes with my mig .35 wire on it .
Reply:here is a picture of my welds on 1/4 inch ..dont have a axle one yetLast edited by nycutlass; 02-23-2012 at 10:42 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by nycutlassthank you kolot that is the answer i wanted ...yes sir i used .35 flux core wire as per lincoln spec
Reply:Originally Posted by kolotOK, don't get me wrong or take this the wrong way,  I personally am on board with the others when we are skeptical of a 110 MIG weld on 1/4 structural. At the same time we want ot help you do it right and more importantly safe. Don't know your experience but MIG is notorious for a thing we call cold lap, that is the bead goes down nice , looks uniform and appears to penetrate but in fact only just lays on the surface. When you wire feed you are putting a lot of material into the puddle and it tends to bridge over areas without burning in.
Reply:Originally Posted by nycutlasshere is a picture of my welds on 1/4 inch ..dont have a axle one yet
Reply:I saw the pic and still say it's not going to cut it..And with that I will let you sort this out with other members..I'M going to 3:45 comes fast....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:only picture i have .didnt think i was going to be showing anyone .yes welds are smooth no build ups
Reply:Originally Posted by nycutlassok explain please then .i know for a fact the machine can weld 1/4 inch with no problem .if there is another reason please tell me .i just joined this site,did i mess something when i signed up that we need to be a pro ?
Reply:Also remember that you are not really welding 1/4". You are welding a 1/4" thick tube to a solid axle, you are essentially welding 2" solid steel, with a 140 amp machine. Ain't gonna work well. I doubt you called Lincoln, but regardless, get Lincoln to submit to you in writing, that your 140 amp, 110volt mig welder is capable of welding a soolid axle stub to a 2" .250 wall tube. They will not do it! End of story!I'm on board with it not working out with the little machine.
Reply:Originally Posted by nycutlassi understand now kolot ty for taking the time in telling me ......befor from zap all i get is oh boy or put the gun down or if its done right stuff like that  .i get more smart comments from zap then a education why
Reply:Maybe Zap (and some of the other experienced posters) just get tired of the crap put out by the newbies who haven't paid their "welding dues".I'll say it one more time.  You don't have the experience or the machine to be welding up an axle for a trailer that will go over the highways.  120v mig welders are notorious for producing "pretty beads" that don't hold crap.  An underpowered machine and an inexperienced welder makes for an accident looking for a place to happen.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:i am with zap and sundown on this matter you just don't have the amps to burn it in properlyMiller Xmt 350Lincoln Ln-25Ahp 200xSmith Gas Mixer AR/HTig is my Kung FuThrowing down dimes and weaving aboutInstagram http://instagram.com/[email protected]
Reply:Axle assembly is just plain difficult. I hate to even attempt it. Although, I have done a couple axles that were only meant for yard duty, no big deal. But I would fail to be honest if I said mine were good enough for highway use. After the question of joint penetration, you still have alignment to contend with. They must be clamped, or jigged to keep fit-up tight. But then heat distortion takes a hold. The end result I have found is that the ones I did would never track well on the road. Commercially built axles are available to fit any need, and the quality is handled by computer driven automatic machines. My former classmate and work partner took a tour of a facility that built trailer axles by automatic process. The spindles we sell are not recommended for service axles, but generally for custom equipment builds that use the same bearing sets for other purposes. Maybe one day I will learn enough about fabrication to get better at alignment of spindles in or on tubes, but I don't work in a "fab" shop. I would want a nice big layout table, and some serious clamping ability, not to mention the "right" measuring instruments to be able to tell when the final product was "true".Good luck, you'll need it.  Attached ImagesCity of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:I wonder why there has not been any class action lawsuits over misrepresentation of the capabilities of these 110 machines??  Similar to what occurred with small engines and air compressors..Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:I like PIZZA.........lol  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Originally Posted by nycutlassi understand now kolot ty for taking the time in telling me ......befor from zap all i get is oh boy or put the gun down or if its done right stuff like that  .i get more smart comments from zap then a education why
Reply:Originally Posted by B_CI like PIZZA.........lol
Reply:The tube is 1/4 inch thick but the spindle  is 2" thick where you are welding it. No way is the 110 machine going to have enough heat to dig into that spindle. The welds might look good but 2000 lb load going around a corner is going to cause some problems. Need at least a 240 volt 200 amp machine to weld that up.
Reply:The other day i was trying to tack together the frame for my new table, its .250 wall 2X2. Plan was to tack it with my hobart 120 mig then finish it all with 7018 with the thunderbolt. Ended up having to basically weld one side all the way cause the tacks would not hold. I'm sure i could still break it apart by hand. No way, at my limited skill level, would i attempt a trailer axle with my little mig, and I'm kinda reckless! You're getting good advice from these guys.  Do you have any shops close by? Maybe if you had it already to weld, you could have it done pretty cheap and it'd be done with the right machineSafety 3rdGump
Reply:The OP hasn't been back since 11pm on the day he posted. Hopefully he didn't just decide that he knew better than guys with more experience and take off for good..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:He Pm'd me, you guys run him off.  I think he will find pretty much anywhere he inquires that that 110 isn't the tool for the job. maybe he will chill out and post again.  Tuff love is hard to understand at times."Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DCMillermatic 251   Syncrowave 300   30A spoolgunLincoln MP210Hypertherm 45(2) LN 25(2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV(4) SA200   1 short hood    SA250    SAM 400
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterI like chinese FOOD.................zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by kolotI think he will find pretty much anywhere he inquires that that 110 isn't the tool for the job.
Reply:Originally Posted by kolotHe Pm'd me, you guys run him off.  I think he will find pretty much anywhere he inquires that that 110 isn't the tool for the job. maybe he will chill out and post again.  Tuff love is hard to understand at times.
Reply:Some folks don't like being helped, which makes me wonder why they ask in the first place.If OP is still lurking, the comments were meant to avert you dying horribly in a jack-knifed cartwheeling exploding pile of wreckage. Not KNOWING that in advance is not bad, and you were wise to ASK for advice. Now be wise and TAKE the advice.Keep an open mind, and get a stick welder with some amps for heavier work. Little MIGs are fine for sheet metal and valuable within their range. A welder is like a wrench. One size doesn't fit all.I like PIZZA.........lol
Reply:this is a tough board
Reply:Originally Posted by Joe Kingthis is a tough board
Reply:Originally Posted by Joe Kingthis is a tough board
Reply:Tough love. Gotta be torn down to be built back up.Millermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:listen to the others look at it this way. if you build an axle that you think is fine and it fails on the road and mayhem ensues  you will be liable.  your insurance will have an investigator looking into the cause to make sure they don't have to pay and when determined weld failure  they will look into the manufacture when thats determined to be you guess whos on the hook and if you dont have insurance be assured there investigator will be looking to you oh and by the way you've just supplied plenty of evidenceLast edited by umahunter; 03-04-2012 at 11:21 PM.350P 30A spool gun cut master 51  syncro 250 other stuff " take a dog off the street and make him prosper and he will not bite you sad the same cannot be said for man" i didnt use punctuation just to piss you off
Reply:I dont think anyone here was harsh, and I have watched some pretty stern advice be given on this forum over the years. This was one of the nicer conversations Ive seen. I hope he took the message and comes back.UA Local 598
Reply:Why dont some of you guys do some welds with 110 mig to show what can and cant be done ?
Reply:Originally Posted by Old DougWhy dont some of you guys do some welds with 110 mig to show what can and cant be done ?