He/Ar Mix

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I'm occasionally doing some aluminum projects using 1/4".  My Dynasty 200 is a great machine, but a bit underpowered for this.  Preheating with propane helps alot to get the bead going. I have an extra 88 cf bottle and was wondering if it would be worthwhile to fill it with Helium mix for these occasional situations.  I've read alot on contradictory info on Helium.  A poster on the Miller forum was having a hard time using his mix with a Dynasty.  SDIII had stated that inverters don't work the same as transformers with He because unlike transformers, the HF is off once the arc is initiated on an inverter.  This apparently significantly changes the arc character with He.  However, Jodi Collier has a video where he mixes his own, uses a Dynasty, and loves the results.  You can see how much better and faster the welding is with the He mix.  So the questions:For my desired reason and machine, is it worth it?What blend should I aim to get?Should I just get pure He and "Y" it in like Jodi as needed?What flow rate would I use?ThanksTA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:I have used both straight helium and 50-50 argon helium for steel.  I really don't remember too much about the straight stuff as it was a long time ago but it got empty quite quick and was bigger than what you mention.  the 50-50 is good and can get a lot faster travel speeds, according to literature the cross section of penetration is a bit deeper but I never did destructive testing.  This was all with a transformer based stick/tig 500 pound machine or in that range.  What I think (might be wrong) about the inverter is more the switch that makes the volt amp curve different for tig vs stick.  On my inverter, just a dc one, the tig is about 19 volts and the stick is about 28 though I am not sure what value it has at the low range.  I think the tig setting also doesn't give more amps as the arc length decreases which takes a bit of getting used to if you are used to the big 500 pound machine.  You might just first try and use the tig on the stick setting on mine that makes a lot more power per knob setting.  You might not have a knob but hopefully get my point.  I would recommend getting some mix if you have a source and experiment.  I put the tig torch on a track cutting device and manually fed the wire with surprising results though that might have been with the straight helium.Fran
Reply:75%argon/25%helium is the most common and most effective mix for what you want. Any more helium than that is just a waste of money IMO.You could either rent a bottle, or buy one. An extra bottle is not a bad idea. And you could use the mix for steel in a pinch, and in some occasions an addition of helium helps like the previous poster indicated.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:I have a dynasty 300DX  and tried the HE route while mixing it with Argon with a “Y” fitting and hoses (I have a separate bottle of HE and AR). No good. I could not get the arc to start no matter what I did, if I turned the HE down super low it would work, cool colors as well. You really need a specified gas mixer for this to work and not just hook up a “Y” to it. A gas mixer is not cheap though. I did see his videos too and he is also using some sort of screen before the “Y”. I did not pursue it anymore after that though.www.tjsperformance.comDynasty 300 DXHTP 240HTP Microcut 380Hyperthem 85JD2 Hyd Bender and HF Hyd Ring Roller all in one =(Frankenbender)Bpt. Mill/DRO4' x 8' CNC Plasma TableInstagram: tjsperformanceYT: TJS Welding and Fabrication
Reply:After re reading the first post and seeing alumimum I thought I might mention helium is dirtier.  It doesn't have the nice cleaning effect of argon.  Whether the lab grade that experts can use with excessive clenlieness and dc for aluminum would be any different than what they sold me, don't know.  I had no idea what was the most common when I got 50-50 mix but that doesn't seem a lot different than argon to me.  50-50 is about the density of air.  One guy's opinion of helium and tig is that it is for overhead.  There are things called proportional gas mixers and are a lot more complex than a Y.
Reply:Trying to mix Ar/He with a simple Y valve is pissing in the wind.DC welding with pure helium is a method of attacking heavy aluminum weldments.  Used extensively by Pangea (NASA), however for the average consumer it gets expensive quite rapidly.  Cost of helium and much higher flow rate required (lighter than air), means you'll be spending about 7x as much on gas.A good "industry standard" is 75%Ar/25%He.  Provides about all the "heat help" you'll be able to take advantage of.  Much higher, you're better off going with a larger welder.Want to "mix" your own gases.  Get a "proportional mixer".  The Smith mixers are about 1,500 retail and can sometimes be found on flea bay for around $600 or even less.Mixed gases were never intended to compensate for lack of experience.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:I have a Smith's mixer and on heavy aluminum I run 38% helium..62% argon....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I have been building a compressor mount thing.   Its all 2 x 2  x 1/4"  aluminum square tube and  1/4" sheet.   I just barely had enough balls with the arcmaster 185 to make the welds.   Starting on an edge helped and turning down the frequency helped.   Welding at 15 Hz is a little odd, but it did make a shallow wet puddle.    I then switched to 75% He, 25$% argon.   Life got much better.   Puddle started right up and once I got going I had to back off on the pedal. I went back to 90 Hz like I usually do and 25% + wave.  So it works for me.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by David RI have been building a compressor mount thing.   Its all 2 x 2  x 1/4"  aluminum square tube and  1/4" sheet.   I just barely had enough balls with the arcmaster 185 to make the welds.   Starting on an edge helped and turning down the frequency helped.   Welding at 15 Hz is a little odd, but it did make a shallow wet puddle.    I then switched to 75% He, 25$% argon.   Life got much better.   Puddle started right up and once I got going I had to back off on the pedal. I went back to 90 Hz like I usually do and 25% + wave.  So it works for me.David
Reply:I tried 75% Argon a while back.  I could not tell the difference  from pure argon.  So this time I used 75%  He.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:DavidR,Know you're an experienced welder, but your "advice" on tig leaves a lot to be desired.  I know you're trying to relate "your experience", but some, who don't understand the basics may be mislead into thinking this is "the right way" because I read it on the internet.In this case, I refer to the OP, who, rather than do his own real "research" about why things really happen, he looks to a message board and takes what is said as the gospel.Here's where I have problems with your comments.  To say you turned your frequencey down to 15HZ in order to achieve a puddle makes absolutely no sense.  Why would you even try that?  What you're doing at that hz is reducing your "arc focus" and creating a huge heat affected zone (HAZ).  This is the last thing you want to do with aluminum.One of the advantages of an inverter vs a transformer based machine is the ability to INCREASE the HZ (frequency) from the 60HZ of a transformer.  Increasing the frequency results in a more focused arc, deeper penetration, and a smaller HAZ.  All of which are desirable when welding aluminum.I've been welding aluminum "for a few years" and have had the capability of mixing my own gas (proportional mixers) for quite a few years.  I have NEVER found a 75%He/25%Ar mix to useful.  If you notice Zap is using/mentioning a He/Ar mix higher than the generally accepted 75%Ar/25%He.   One of the reasons he's having good results with that mix is he's using a Sine Wave machine which uses constant HF to maintain the AC arc.As you go up in He % (in a mixed gas) the more difficult it becomes for the arc to be maintained as it passes thru the 0 state.  This is particularly true for inverters which only use HF to INITIATE (not maintain) the arc.There has been much discussion on the forum about using straight He (lab grade/welding grade) and straight DC current.  This is a very viable process for heavy weldments, but, take my word for it, is not quite as "easy" as Pangea and BC make it out to be.  Both these guys are very experienced tiggers and have refined the process thru years of experience.  It's not something a newbie just goes out and does with much success.  Besides the "experience factor", when you start buying hi purity He, you'll find the process to be very expensive.  Cost of gas as well as a much higher flow rate are at issue here.  I used the process for years but only resort to it now when nothing else will work.What it all comes down to is the fact that there's no "Silver Bullet" when it comes to welding aluminum.  You can't use amps you didn't buy.  Granted, technique and gas mixes can sometimes be used to "maximize" a machine's capability, but they were never intended to make a machine do something it was not built for.  Using an underpowered welder to build a "non-critical" part may be OK, but don't think it's the correct way to build something that could injure someone if it fails.PS.  I'll bet that if you did some "destructive testing" of the welds you did at 15HZ, you won't be very happy with the results.Part of my response is due to the frustration I feel when reading posts from our new generation of welders.  Seems their only source for information is the internet.  Getting pretty tired of reading, "Poster xy says, or I saw it on U-Tube".  Guys I read a lot of pure BS on the boards and I see a lot of horrible advice on U-Tube.  There's too much great, accurate information put out by companies like Miller, Lincoln, ESAB, etc to settle for just what your read on internet forums.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIPart of my response is due to the frustration I feel when reading posts from our new generation of welders.  Seems their only source for information is the internet.  Getting pretty tired of reading, "Poster xy says, or I saw it on U-Tube".  Guys I read a lot of pure BS on the boards and I see a lot of horrible advice on U-Tube.  There's too much great, accurate information put out by companies like Miller, Lincoln, ESAB, etc to settle for just what your read on internet forums.
Reply:DRF,You are precisely the lazy type poster I was referring to in my previous post.  You'd rather ask a question on a message board than pick up an established reference and learn about the subject.  Often times what you get in response on a message board is either a half truth, doesn't go into sufficient detail, or is flat out wrong.  Furthermore, many of the questions you ask, you could answer for yourself with 30 minutes of hood time.My response to David was in no way intended as an "insult".  David is an accomplished welder and has extensive experience in areas of welding that I lack.  If you go back just a few months, you'll note that he is just now really refining his tig skills.  When he, an experienced welder, whose input is respected, makes comments "from left field", it makes things even worse because it's taken more as gospel.You seem quite "hung up" on the fact that I choose not to post a lot of photos of my work.  That is my personal decision.  I you don't think that I know what I'm talking about, then I suggest you use the "ignore this poster" option.I have never understood what is gained by showing pictures of welds.  If you don't know what a good weld (mig, tig, stick) looks like, woe be it for me to have to show you.  Some of our posters are doing "interesting, creative work" and there are posters who enjoy seeing what can be accomplished by welding.  That's great.  Personally, a lot of what I do today is repair work for customers who wouldn't be real happy about me posting up pictures of their mistakes and what it took to correct them.  In the past, I have posted up photos of things I though would better help other posters.  Here I'm referring to photos of a little tungsten sharpening station I put together, an air filtration system for plasma cutters, my setup for mixing gasses, etc, etc.At this point in my life I do very little welding for fun or for practice.  When I take on a job the most severe critic I face is the guy I look at while shaving in the morning.  My goal is to do the best job possible and get the material back in the hands of the paying customer, not to fart around taking pictures to get oos and awes from internet posters.  Satisfied customers are what keeps my business going.In my lifetime, I've taken thousands upon thousands of photos.  In the military, many of those photos ended up being classified others ended up doing the processing, handling, and distribution.  In the yacht sales business I took thousands of photos of boats I had listed.  Here I always had a "listing secretary" who did the downloads, processing, assembling portfolios, and distributing.  Now it's just me and frankly, I don't enjoy the downloading, resizing, storing and posting process.  Since I moved to a new computer with an updated version of Photoshop, I find it even less enjoyable.  Guess I'm just not a computer/photo geek.Nowhere in any of my posts will you ever find that I've claimed to be "the best" at any particular facet of welding.  I have been fortunate enough to have worked with some of the best the industry has to offer and can "hold my own", at least til the best gets there.If you wish to attack me, I'd suggest, rather than complaining about what I don't do (post a lot of photos) is go back and read my posts and find one case where I gave bad advice that may have lead a poster astray.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Can one of these modern ac variable frequency inverter welders be adjusted to turn off the high frequency and use a seperate high frequency box?  Or would it be ill advised to use a high frequency box and have the one in the welder do it's thing as well?Does the sine wave, square wave or other like triangle wave figure into this besides the hi frequency.
Reply:Originally Posted by fran...k.Can one of these modern ac variable frequency inverter welders be adjusted to turn off the high frequency and use a seperate high frequency box?  Or would it be ill advised to use a high frequency box and have the one in the welder do it's thing as well?
Reply:Originally Posted by fran...k.Can one of these modern ac variable frequency inverter welders be adjusted to turn off the high frequency and use a seperate high frequency box?  Or would it be ill advised to use a high frequency box and have the one in the welder do it's thing as well?Does the sine wave, square wave or other like triangle wave figure into this besides the hi frequency.
Reply:For Mr. Potato Head.Here is some destructive testing.  First is the set up.  6061 Alulminum plate about 3 or so inches wide.   Cut on a band saw, cleaned up with a SS wire brush and wiped with solvent.I used .045 filler to set a gap so both would be the same.    75% helium and 25% argon was used for both runs.  I just fed the wire in not looking for any stinking dimes.   3/32 4043 filler was used for both plates.  machine set to 185 amps and I floored it for both runs.   Startup on the 150 hz was a little harry, but once it got going......First welds 15 Hz.Not quite what I expected.  I planned on pulling the wire out and welding the back side.   I only did one side.   Look at the back, you can see the penetration of the HEAT, not so much of the bead.150 HzReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Here are the welds with a root bend.Draw your own conclusion.Here is a weld with the pure argon 15 HzAnd here is 75/25  75 Hz.Everything you are looking at is 1/4" aluminum.     I post more and more of my projects on other welding web sites because of the BS here.I never said my way was the best or what everyone else should do, just my results.  If you do a search you will find I built a compressor belt guard out of 1/4" and had the same results.  With pure argon at 90 Hz, I could barely get a puddle going on 1/4".   At 15 Hz, the puddle starts right up.David Parts of my initial post Originally Posted by David Rsnip... Starting on an edge helped and turning down the frequency helped.   Welding at 15 Hz is a little odd, but it did make a shallow wet puddle.    I then switched to 75% He, 25$% argon.   Life got much better.   Puddle started right up and once I got going I had to back off on the pedal. I went back to 90 Hz like I usually do and 25% + wave.  So it works for me.David