forged nails

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Here are some of the nails I forged today at work on my break.  I used a low carbon steel rod, I think it was around 1/4 inch in size.  I stretched the steel rod almost a 1 1/4 inch and tapered down to a point.  I upset the head and drove it down to the size I wanted, once it was done I lightly wire brushed the nail and heated the head up again and took a small punch set of letters and numbers and drove my initials into the head of the nails.  I plan on making a coffe table base out of scrolled 3/8 square stock and make my own rivits for the base assembly and use the nails I make and use some petrified wood my grandfather has drive the wood together with the nails.  I want the table to look like it was a vintage piece but last a lifetime.to the left is what I started off with and the right is finished nail.  The only thing I will do before I use them as nails is lightly sand the tips on my belt sander to give them a sharper point for easier start.hope you guys like em!Last edited by travisbaker; 10-30-2012 at 05:06 PM.
Reply:Old carpenter trick was to blunt the nail end before driving it. Reason...the blunt end would tear through the wood fibers rather than providing the means/path for the tapered/angled point to split the wood like a logsplitter wedge. You might be better served leaving the nail tips as they are...or blunting them a bit more. For the same reasons, you'll get a blunt nail to 'hold' better in the wood than a sharpened nail.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:Originally Posted by WyoRoyOld carpenter trick was to blunt the nail end before driving it. Reason...the blunt end would tear through the wood fibers rather than providing the means/path for the tapered/angled point to split the wood like a logsplitter wedge. You might be better served leaving the nail tips as they are...or blunting them a bit more. For the same reasons, you'll get a blunt nail to 'hold' better in the wood than a sharpened nail.
Reply:wyoroy- thanks alot ive never heard that before but im more than willing to give it a try,swells- The nails are now square, i just used round stock cause we had some scrap.  While I was stretching the steel I squared it up a good bit.
Reply:The usual way to blunt the nail points is to put the nail head down onto something hard and strike the points a couple of times with the hammer.Lincoln SP-170 MigHypertherm powermax 45Lorch T220 AC/DC TigButters FM 215 synergic MigKemppi 180 adaptive mig RULES ARE FOR THE OBEDIENCE OF FOOLS AND THE  GUIDANCE OF WISE MEN.
Reply:Originally Posted by gordon stephensonThe usual way to blunt the nail points is to put the nail head down onto something hard and strike the points a couple of times with the hammer.
Reply:Those look great.  My only suggestion is to make a few more nails than you actually need, so you can practice and perfect your technique, before working on the final project.KevKevin / Machine_Punk from The Aerodrome Studio - Lincoln PowerMIG 210 MP - Meco N Midget w/custom welding station - Vintage Victor 100Current Projects: The Aerodrome Studio
Reply:Originally Posted by WyoRoyOld carpenter trick was to blunt the nail end before driving it. Reason...the blunt end would tear through the wood fibers rather than providing the means/path for the tapered/angled point to split the wood like a logsplitter wedge. You might be better served leaving the nail tips as they are...or blunting them a bit more. For the same reasons, you'll get a blunt nail to 'hold' better in the wood than a sharpened nail.
Reply:machine punk- Ive already made 5 or 6, I plan on making about 20 and picking the "best" or favorite ones that I've made for final project.  I'll save the other ones for future projects.
Reply:A-yup looking good. You don't want to sharpen them any more, just about right as you got them. The nail acts as a punch on the wood, making it sharp it will want to act like a wedge.You can still buy square nails. They in general are called cut nails. Any hardware store has them. Very common to use on flooring. They will rust less than normal steel nails.They also make what are called cut restoration nails which can have all sorts of heads. Simulates the stuff made by old time blacksmiths. In the old days the nails were not steel but usually some type of wrought iron. Once they were machine made still used in building many older houses. My last house had lots of them. They hold better than normal modern nails. Come in all sizes. Wooden shingles had their own designed cut nails. You can just web search for square or cut nails or restoration cut nails.http://www.calibex.com/square-nails-...0--search-htmlBTW the better blacksmiths had a punch and die type jig that sort of automated the making of nails in a very uniform and fast method. They didn't pound a lot on each one.One day I was working on putting siding on a house. Was using those machine cut nails and had this helper I just hired. He was up there on a ladder, would take a few nails out of his apron, pound in a couple, throw a few away, pound in a couple, throw a few away.So I go over and ask what is he doing, nails cost good money. He sezs some of the nails have the heads on the wrong ends, so he throws those away. I sezs you dumb arse those are for the other side of the house.
Reply:Okay ... drive the nails into green wood.  The wood dries out and shrinks and they NEVER come out!
Reply:A couple more facts on nails. Originally, the penny (d) designation came about from the cost of a measure of a given size of nails. While 16 d may not sound like much today, it was a significant expenditure back in the old days. Common practice was to burn down old, derelict buildings for their nail content which would then be sifted out of the ashes and reused. Not sure about the rest of you, but I'm darned glad modern manufacturing technique has improved to where nails are cheap and plentiful...because I hate being handed a soup can of straightened nails by a friend I'm going to help.  Driving force/number of blows is also an important factor in the holding power of regular nails. A single well placed blow from a 28 oz. Estwing to a 16d common nail will hold significantly better/more aggresively than the same 16 d nail driven haphazardly with a 16 oz. homeowner's hammer shaped object. If you doubt this, remember back to this post the next time you try taking apart a project that has been nailed together with a nail gun, which would give similar driving force as a well aimed heavy hammer. Your doubts may be assuaged.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:Originally Posted by WyoRoy Driving force/number of blows is also an important factor in the holding power of regular nails. A single well placed blow from a 28 oz. Estwing to a 16d common nail will hold significantly better/more aggresively than the same 16 d nail driven haphazardly with a 16 oz. homeowner's hammer shaped object. If you doubt this, remember back to this post the next time you try taking apart a project that has been nailed together with a nail gun, which would give similar driving force as a well aimed heavy hammer. Your doubts may be assuaged.
Reply:Originally Posted by CosmicRamblerIt ain't your daddy's game any more, can be very engineered and fast. Real bear to get some of it apart, like next to impossible.
Reply:WyoRoy I learned a lot of what you said from an old timer carpenter that I worked with last year. amazing tricks of the trade that you can pick up from the "experienced".. He explained every mistake he made and how he learned from them on the hours of driving to job sites we had. he also let me make many of my own mistakes but encouraged me to think on my own how to do it better next time! this is the sole reason I graduated with an industrial welding degree and I am still searching for the right shop. I want to learn what I didnt learn in school and hopefully some day be ahead of the kids in my class that are doing production. plus ADHD with out meds doesnt allow me to sit all day doing the same thing over and over again. I have tried it but couldnt do it.
Reply:Originally Posted by CosmicRamblerI'm not sure anybody can actually quantify that very well. Nobody does much hand driving of nails any more. Modern nail guns can use nails with a glue that acts like a lube going in, couple that with the practice of very easy to drive at some angle and vary that angle / direction with nails in the same area. The holding power in a modern sense is a factor of many things never available before. Plus you can get all sorts of nail sticks, some designed with extra holding power. It ain't your daddy's game any more, can be very engineered and fast. Real bear to get some of it apart, like next to impossible.
Reply:Originally Posted by barefooter14WyoRoy I learned a lot of what you said from an old timer carpenter that I worked with last year. amazing tricks of the trade that you can pick up from the "experienced".. He explained every mistake he made and how he learned from them on the hours of driving to job sites we had. he also let me make many of my own mistakes but encouraged me to think on my own how to do it better next time! this is the sole reason I graduated with an industrial welding degree and I am still searching for the right shop. I want to learn what I didnt learn in school and hopefully some day be ahead of the kids in my class that are doing production. plus ADHD with out meds doesnt allow me to sit all day doing the same thing over and over again. I have tried it but couldnt do it.
Reply:Tremont makes all kinds of cut nails, some have somewhat decorative heads.http://store.tremontnail.com/cgi-bin.../sp=subcat_new"USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by CosmicRamblerA-yup looking good. You don't want to sharpen them any more, just about right as you got them. The nail acts as a punch on the wood, making it sharp it will want to act like a wedge.You can still buy square nails. They in general are called cut nails. Any hardware store has them. Very common to use on flooring. They will rust less than normal steel nails.They also make what are called cut restoration nails which can have all sorts of heads. Simulates the stuff made by old time blacksmiths. In the old days the nails were not steel but usually some type of wrought iron. Once they were machine made still used in building many older houses. My last house had lots of them. They hold better than normal modern nails. Come in all sizes. Wooden shingles had their own designed cut nails. You can just web search for square or cut nails or restoration cut nails.http://www.calibex.com/square-nails-...0--search-htmlBTW the better blacksmiths had a punch and die type jig that sort of automated the making of nails in a very uniform and fast method. They didn't pound a lot on each one.