How far can the argon tank be from the welder?

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To maximize garage space, I am going to bench mount my tig welder. This way I can put my welding table (still have to build one) under it for storage. The problem is that I dont have room to mount a big argon tank close to the welder. I could but it would be in way. I was thinking about putting it a ways away and running a 25' hose. Is there any neg to this other than a couple extra sec on the initial purge? See pics below. I have the tank where I was thinking about putting it.I was going to go up and over so that will add to the length. Any advice would be great. Also, the hose size is like a 7/32. I can buy from HTP but its like 30 something for 25'. Any places sell it cheaper? Tried to google but didnt come up with anything. First pic is the shelf that will house the cooler, tig and a couple drawers. The second shows how far the tank will be (about 25' total length with going up and over and back down).Hobart Handler 210 with SpoolgunHypertherm PM30 PlasmaHTP 221 Tig WelderHF BandsawHF Auto Dark Helmet
Reply:You can try it that way. We ran plenty of machines off "header and hose" combinations at a distance. If flow is insufficient, then put a pressure regulator on the tank, crank it up, and put a flowmeter at the welder to get the pressure and flow you desire at the machine.Western make a CGA-580 female to NPT thread adapter, and you can figure out the rest of the fittings. I buy hose at my LWS for about 70 cents a foot, and use fittings with reusable hose clamps instead of crimped ferrules.
Reply:You can go as far as you want, but you are right, you will get a lot of pressure buildup in the hose.But I have had this come up in the past. I put a Western Enterprises gas saver at the machine end of the hose. Then adust the pressure accordingly to reduce the surge and still deliver gas through your torch. It works out to be approximately 11 to 13 psi. to the gas soliniod. I still use it on my ThermalArc400.http://www.bettymills.com/shop/produ...ntent=FacilityWeld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:sometimes i have to weld with my argon bottle 100+ ft away
Reply:How long is the hose? It can't be any further that that.
Reply:In that closed room , do you plan on using any kind of air extraction for the fumes?
Reply:High pressure bottles are required to be restrained from falling over,bustin' off the fittings/regulator, etc. The last thing you'd want tosee is a loose bottle-venting under high pressure, slamming around inside that garage,before it punches thru a wall.Blackbird
Reply:You will have NO problems with a 25' hose from tank to welder.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:I had zero problems with my tank 25' from my tig.  I used regular home depot pneumatic quick connects as well on the lines for the input and the tig torch.  A 10 second purge at 15 cfh cleared the lines and I was good.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:You may have a problem with high gas consumption.  You are pressurizing a lot of gas line - like a large reservoir.  When you start the gas flow at the torch, you will get a surge of gas that will take a while disipate as the pressure in the hose slowly returns to the normal flow rate.As both farmall and shovelon have suggested, it would be best to put a pressure regulator on the tank, crank it up, and put a flowmeter (or gas saver) at the welder to get the pressure and flow you desire at the machine.Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:You can put the flowmeter wherever you want.The flow rate coming out of the end is the same as it is going in (argon isn't created nor destroyed in the length of hose lol...) The longer hose is going to be a greater resistance to flow, which may require higher pressures to push the same flow amount through a longer hose, not that it's of any consequence in this situation. Technically at some ridiculous length the resistance to flow will become so great that the tank will need a minimum pressure to supply the desired flow. You can probably run a hose much longer than would ever be required under any circumstances without any issues.Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:Originally Posted by farmallWestern make a CGA-580 female to NPT thread adapter, and you can figure out the rest of the fittings.
Reply:I run a 100' to my ln25 feeder all day long in the field. Reg on bottle, and reg on machine. I keep bottle reg open more  and ajust the other. works well.
Reply:It's like pslwelder says; you should have two - "Reg on bottle, and reg on machine".  With due respect MikeGyver, "The flow rate coming out of the end is the same as it is going in" is only true when the gas has been flowing for a while and steady-state conditions have been achieved.The typical gas regulator is only a single stage unit and it will deliver a reasonably fixed pressure (say 15 psi) when gas is flowing.  However, stop the gas flow and you will see the pressure gauge rise up (say to 25 psi).  Now the whole gas line is pressurized to 10 psi above the normal line delivery pressure of 15 psi.  Now you trigger open the gas valve and all that excess pressure in the entire gas line tries to burst out of your nozzle; it's a audible pulse of gas with a flow rate way above normal - and its duration depends directly upon the length of the gas line: long gas line = long duration high flow rate.By placing a second regulator close to the welder, you go a long way to eliminating this gas burst.This concern about wasting gas via this gas pulse, especially for MIG welding, has led to a few manufacturer's supplying special small-diameter gas lines that incorporate a small orifice nearest the welder.  Their purpose is to save gas = save money.Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:i've had bottles well over 100ft away from me and it worked fine, just when you got down to like 1000lbs you had to switch out bottles.ESAB MigMaster 275Miller Econotwin HFMiller Syncrowave 250
Reply:clayman,Your statement makes absolutely no sense.A quality flowmeter serves two purposes.  First it takes the high pressure gas in the bottle and steps it down to a lower working pressure (generally 30 to 80 PSI).  Then the flowmeter delivers the gas at specified volume (expressed in CFH).As long as the pressure in the bottle is greater than the "working pressure" of the regulator, there should be no reason to have to swap out the bottle.  If you had to swap out your bottles when the pressure dropped below 1000PSI, you had OTHER PROBLEMS not at all related to the discussion here.People are making way too much of the minimal volume of gas that will "build up" in the lines during periods of non-use.  There may be "critical applications" where this is not acceptable, but for the average user, it's not something to be concerned about.  I've always kinda looked at that initial puff (while the lines stabilized) as just providing an initial surge of covering gas protecting the start of the weld bead.  Same principle as a small amount of "pre-flow".Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Thats guys for all the comments. When the caps are off, they do get chained the the wall.Hobart Handler 210 with SpoolgunHypertherm PM30 PlasmaHTP 221 Tig WelderHF BandsawHF Auto Dark Helmet
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIPeople are making way too much of the minimal volume of gas that will "build up" in the lines during periods of non-use.  There may be "critical applications" where this is not acceptable, but for the average user, it's not something to be concerned about.  I've always kinda looked at that initial puff (while the lines stabilized) as just providing an initial surge of covering gas protecting the start of the weld bead.  Same principle as a small amount of "pre-flow".
Reply:Originally Posted by mikeb9550Thats guys for all the comments. When the caps are off, they do get chained the the wall.
Reply:238,857 miles....but you might have to use fluxcore.HammerFile Big Hammer------------------------------Here, let me Google that for you...
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIII  I've always kinda looked at that initial puff (while the lines stabilized) as just providing an initial surge of covering gas protecting the start of the weld bead.  Same principle as a small amount of "pre-flow".
Reply:A warning about this statement... A CGA-580 to female NPT connector sees high pressure gas.
Reply:How long is the hose?
Reply:How long is the hose?
Reply:When I was welding bank vaults together on the job it was common to have 200- 250 feet of hose and cable laid out to avoid being in the way of other contrators on the same job. No problems with gas flow.Originally Posted by lars66When I was welding bank vaults together on the job it was common to have 200- 250 feet of hose and cable laid out to avoid being in the way of other contrators on the same job. No problems with gas flow.
Reply:No talking mig welding new bank vaults together on the construction sites. Some were put up in existing buildings and some in new building construction in various stages of construction. Some were even open air welding with just the building slab in place. Only problem I ever had was freezing regulator from the cold but laying a trouble light on top of the regulator normally provided enough heat to keep it thawed.Last edited by lars66; 04-07-2012 at 11:29 AM.
Reply:For a 25' line, you could use nylon airbrake tubing, and get the SMALLEST diameter available.  A 1/8" ID would be fine, because your flow rates are so low.  Just leave the flowmeter and regulator on the tank.You don't need a remove flow meter.  Unless you kink the hose (or somehow magically change it's length while you're using it), whatever you set the flow to will remain constant.  This really isn't something to worry yourself about so much.
Reply:i never even gave this a thought.   i run my 30A with a miller 50 foot extension;  no problem.  i keep 50 ft of argon line on a hose reel and another 25 in the box but that's the most i've ever run out.   still i didn't notice anything different.  if i can avoid unloading a bottle, i do.
Reply:At work I have about 300' of argon line :]