Cast Iron

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More of an information quest. Everybody loves cast iron rightOK cast has been around a long time, so BEFORE there were electric welders it was welded so how was it done? Here comes the unsubstantiated rumors.Two processes used before ( I underscore the before ) was:1:  preheating the cast under a charcoal fire, then using a torch to get it molten and then stir in a tungston rod into the weld2. A specialised torch, which turbulates the acet/oxygen before ignition, rod ? Not a clueSo running back to 1897 and NO electric welders how was it done?I also heard something I am doubtful of the claim, that cast iron was last manufactured in 1904, then the mix was changed, not quite so hard, increased tensile strength.Again I am looking for real scoop here, I know cast was welded in the 1800's, there are too many relic locomotives, and machinery as proof, question was HOW?Any welding historians?
Reply:Brazing perhaps, people still do that today. Way back when, back before they invented electricity and color, and everybody walked fast in movies, hot riveting was the joining method of choice. Maybe they used metal stitching? not sure how long that's been around but in many instances its superior to welding for repairs.Last edited by MikeGyver; 05-21-2012 at 04:28 AM.Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:Keep in mind with old iron there are two types, cast and wrought. Most cast was mechanically fastened. Bolts, rivets etc, brazing was an option as well.  Wrought iron could be forge welded or fastened mechanically..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:If your asking about how castings were repaired, you will sometimes see where a crack was drilled and "stitched" back together with pins
Reply:"Bolts, rivets"Yes I was aware of those, example old steam locomotives. But there were places that it wasn't possible or need to be welded. I also read that rods used besides tungston were: cast rod, and nickel.No I am not looking to repair anything ( especially this way ), and I was talking about new cast iron in a manufacturing processes.
Reply:I routinely weld cast iron in repairing/modifying parts of our old machines that are in need.  The weldor who is proficient with the oxy-acetyline torch will have no problem with the control of the molten metal puddle involved in the process. Challenges for all who attempt the process are that are critical and different from a non-cast part are ;  * identifying the parent metal and selecting a filler source(rod)--many times a piece of a  like casting can be used for a good match  *  predicting management of preheating and post heating and uniform cooling of the finished part to avoid cracking as the piece contracts  The molten puddle is very viscous and easily managed allowing buildup on vertical surfaces easier than braze.  The color match and machinability is just like the parent metal when proper precautions are taken to not allow excess oxygen in fact an excess acetyline flame is recommended.  welding or edge buildup of thin section are many times done without great concern for preheating or cracking.   The commercial rods WERE Harris Kastweld 111 ---stock # 0011190 probably not available now   10 yrs ago were 4.00/lb       4 yrs ago were 8.00/lb  also have used good rods from Cronatron  40.00/lb   but really flowed well  check online for other cast iron rods for gas welding maybe  muggyweld  Find a foundry near you and go talk to them as they very often repair new castings with this process and they probably cast their own rods.   The flux used is for CAST IRON WELDING specifically-- do not let the dumass behind the counter tell you a brazing flux is OK--it aint.   Usually the flux is in a red labeled can and my current brand is ATLAS.   try it you will like it   Some of my recent uses were welding a delicate casting on the control gate for a 80 year old Meadows grist mill,and building up the broken fins and a base bolt hole and surrounding metal the size of a quarter on the cylinder of a 1947 Indian Chief motorcycle a friend is restoring.  The advantage of brazing over welding is with brazing the process is done with less heat input.   some advantages of welding are color match,  and the ability to join metal of seemingly poorer condition like old manifolds which have seen repeated heating and cooling.
Reply:Enginenut, Kastweld is back in stock, just bought some a month ago. Aufhauser also has the same material. Back to the OP, most common method of actually welding cast iron back in the heyday was O/A, considered pretty common fare for the day and still used today by specialists for high quality cast iron repairs. The filler is a iron/silicon cast alloy, the composition hasnt changed since about 1902. Hope this helps!
Reply:Did this practice weld on a scrapped cast iron cylinder, knocked off an ear and built it back up again with a Henrob O/A welder and old cast iron piston rings as filler, no flux. Not perfect in any way, but I'm an amateur to begin with, was out of practice after a winter without welding anything, no previous cast iron experience, and as I said, piston rings and no flux... I'm suprised it turned out as good as it did.Anyway, what I had to work with was basically available close to a hundred years ago, their tools were a bit rougher but the technique hasn't really changed. And before acetylene they used hydrogen for a while, and people have been brazing metals for at least a millennia before "modern" welding of steel was possible...
Reply:Originally Posted by fredschromMore of an information quest. Everybody loves cast iron rightOK cast has been around a long time, so BEFORE there were electric welders it was welded so how was it done? Here comes the unsubstantiated rumors.Two processes used before ( I underscore the before ) was:1:  preheating the cast under a charcoal fire, then using a torch to get it molten and then stir in a tungston rod into the weld2. A specialised torch, which turbulates the acet/oxygen before ignition, rod ? Not a clueSo running back to 1897 and NO electric welders how was it done?I also heard something I am doubtful of the claim, that cast iron was last manufactured in 1904, then the mix was changed, not quite so hard, increased tensile strength.Again I am looking for real scoop here, I know cast was welded in the 1800's, there are too many relic locomotives, and machinery as proof, question was HOW?Any welding historians?
Reply:I knew the railroads thermit welded track, now its a little kit. What I didn't know was it was an old technology, used in the 1800's.Thanks for the Muggyweld tip, interesting
Reply:Can't cast iron be forge welded?Oldiron2... the photo hardly does the process justice.  The first time I saw the video it amazed me. The second video shows the whole process in better detail. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpOJE-mkWmw[/ame][ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uxsFglz2ig[/ame]
Reply:Originally Posted by forhireCan't cast iron be forge welded?Oldiron2... the photo hardly does the process justice.  The first time I saw the video it amazed me. The second video shows the whole process in better detail.