Diesel Fuel Tank

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Hey Everyone, A guy stops at my shop the other day and asks if I would be interested in building him a fuel tank for his pick up for extra fuel for tractors and farm equipment? I have repaired aluminum tanks before but never built one so unsure of baffle placement and if any inside structure support?
Reply:Instead of building a baffle, summit sells foam baffles. Food for thought.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Good idea Gamble. Would a person have a issue closing up the tank with the heat? I know racers have been using them forever just never thought of how or if it was a issue? Thanx
Reply:I gotta ask.....why not just buy one?  Is it some special configuration?  Or does he think you'll be cheaper?My name's not Jim....
Reply:My question as well.  I have a 120 gallon L shaped diamond plate tank (with a toolbox over it) in my pickup that I fuel the tractors with in the field.  Ready made, DOT certified, lifting eyes, vapor cap and it was a bit over a grand.BTW, it has one central baffle in it.
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmI gotta ask.....why not just buy one?  Is it some special configuration?  Or does he think you'll be cheaper?
Reply:With no idea on size and design, it's tough to answer you question on placement of baffles and supports.The idea of the baffles is two fold. One they are there to limit the amount of fuel slosh ( free surface action) and two the provide interior support for large flat sides. Round structures, by their nature, support themselves for the most part, hence why most pressure vessels are round.Lets say you have two 100 gal tanks. One is tall and skinny, one is short and wide. The tall skinny one might not need any baffles at all, since the distance the fuel can move side to side is very small. On the other hand the short wide one, would allow fuel to get up quite a bit of momentum if you didn't install a few baffles. Think about sloshing water back and forth in the tub as a kid and how soon you'd be swept along with the water after a certain point.I think my 4' wide  100 gallon transfer tank has 2-3 baffles in it, restricting the distance the fuel can slosh to 16" or less.I'm pretty sure regs on transfer tanks change at roughly 100 gals for road use. You don't see many over that size generally except as stationary units..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I suspect there are regulations governing baffle placement in motor fuel tanks written by the Federal DOT.  They have regs for everything else, so why not.
Reply:The foam they use in race fuel cells isnt put in until after the cell is finished.  It generally comes in square lengths and you just stuff it in through the fuel opening which is generally the larger style aircraft type cap.
Reply:Originally Posted by Comp ChassisThe foam they use in race fuel cells isnt put in until after the cell is finished.  It generally comes in square lengths and you just stuff it in through the fuel opening which is generally the larger style aircraft type cap.
Reply:It will probably be cheaper in the end to buy a tank rather than build one.Just find a tank that fits his specs online, mark it up 20% and sell it to him.I break things for a living...
Reply:Originally Posted by rlitman....So, if you have a tank of 115 gallons or more (I found that number elsewhere), you need to hazmat placard the vehicle.Otherwise, I believe you can carry as many 110 gallon or less tanks of diesel fuel, so long as you stay under 5000 lbs gross weight (say around 700 gallons to be safe)....
Reply:Originally Posted by MondoNope.  Almost but not quite.   You can't carry multiple 110 gallon tanks containing diesel fuel unless . . .
Reply:Well, ya know, the law is a veritible mine field of cross-references and exceptions and anything is always open to interpretation.  But in the event a law enforcement officer prosecutes a given circumstance as a violation the final interpretation will be left to a court.  I really think you are stretching your interpretation in the wrong direction and hope you are doing so only to be rhetorical.But just for fun, read this from the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration:Subpart F - Fueling precautions § 392.51Reserve fuel; materials of trade.Small amounts of fuel for the operation or maintenance of a commercial motor vehicle (including its auxiliary equipment) may be designated as materials of trade (see 49 CFR 171.8).(a) The aggregate gross weight of all materials of trade on a motor vehicle may not exceed 200 kg (440 pounds).(b) Packaging for gasoline must be made of metal or plastic and conform to requirements of 49 CFR Parts 171, 172, 173, and 178 or requirements of the Occupational Safety and Health Administration contained in 29 CFR 1910.106.(c) For Packing Group II (including gasoline), Packing Group III (including aviation fuel and fuel oil), or ORM-D, the material is limited to 30 kg (66 pounds) or 30 L (8 gallons).(d) For diesel fuel, the capacity of the package is limited to 450 L (119 gallons).(e) A Division 2.1 material in a cylinder is limited to a gross weight of 100 kg (220 pounds). (A Division 2.1 material is a flammable gas, including liquefied petroleum gas, butane, propane, liquefied natural gas, and methane).[63 FR 33279, June 18, 1998](emphasis added)My interpretation of the above is that for any auxillary fuel stores on the vehicle there is a limitation of 440 pounds, but for diesel the package size is limited to 119 gallons.  So you can carry 119 gallons of diesel as auxillary fuel if it is in a single 119 gallon container.   But if you have multiple containers that are smaller than 119 gallons you are limited to an aggregate total weight of 440 lbs, or about 61 and 1/2 gallons.  But that is providing you do not also carry any gasoline or kerosene for other purposes.But we aren't really talking about auxillary fuel for the vehicle, we are discussing a transfer tank for providing fuel for off-road vehicles.  It may be that I am citing the wrong applicable law, but I have spent about as much time on researching this item as I care to and can't say for certain that this same 119 gallon (450L) quantity applies to a "transfer tank" for fueling off-road vehicles today. I expect it may, at least on the federal level.  It makes snese because this would permit crossing into or out of Canada or Mexico directly; both countries measure fuel in liters.  I know there are a number of agricultural farms that have land on both sides of our northern border in and around ME, VT, NY and Quebec.  I expect there are more to the west. I regret I no longer maintain my CDL-A HAZMAT license so I am bit out of the loop on this, but my recollection was that when carrying fuel for my bulldozer in my pickup (I sold out of the dirt business in 1994 - four years before the citation above was enacted)  I was limited to 110 gallons without needing to document it and placard the vehicle.  I do not recall there being a limit on the number of containers.  I had a single 55 gallon drum which was equiped with a hand-crank pump and that was more than adequate to fill the 22 gallon tank in my tiny JD350.- MondoMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:All I know is that I see farmers regularly hauling 500-1000 gallon fuel tanks on flat racks and I'm not even sure all of 'em have a driver's license....My name's not Jim....
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmAll I know is that I see farmers regularly hauling 500-1000 gallon fuel tanks on flat racks and I'm not even sure all of 'em have a driver's license....
Reply:theres an onsite fueling company here local that runs dodge dually pickups with little tandem axle trailers that the truck AND the trailer have ever single inch filled with fuel tanks.    6 separate tanks in the truck 6 in the trailer.   approx 700 gallons of diesel fuel,  they run a legal operation and pull into the scales when open and all the trucks and trailers have recent CVSA stickers.     Not a single placard to be seen on ANY OF THEM.I personally wondered how they get away with it but never bothered looking into it to deep.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Originally Posted by MondoWell, ya know, the law is a veritible mine field of cross-references and exceptions and anything is always open to interpretation.  But in the event a law enforcement officer prosecutes a given circumstance as a violation the final interpretation will be left to a court.  I really think you are stretching your interpretation in the wrong direction and hope you are doing so only to be rhetorical.
Reply:First of all........  You do NOT have to have any special license, or placarding on the vehicle, if the vehicle is farm plated.  This goes for all states.  You DO have to clearly identify the type of fuel in the tank either by stenciled "diesel" or placard when farm plated.  You may haul up to 500 gallons if farm plated.As far as baffles go............To build a nice tank all you need for the average tank is two interior bulkheads to support the tank sides from inside.  These bulkheads also serve as baffles if you cut a triangular piece out of all 4 outside corners of the bulkhead.  A 3 or 4" triangle serves very well.  This allows fuel, and air at the top, to flow across the entire length of the tank unimpeded.I prefer a stout tank, so mine's made of 10ga metal.  It holds approx. 160 gal, and weighs around 300+ pounds.  No fancy vented openings, it's not required.  Simple pipe thread fittings and caps.  A nice water drain would be nice, but it can get knocked off when handling the tank.  I prefer using a length of steel brake line to siphon off the water at the bottom of the tank maybe once a year.  The two bulkheads run across the short side of the tank at right angles to the length.  This is a fully welded tank, no brake work for bending.  I think it's easier this way, and cheaper.  I probably had 3 leaks in the job when finished which isn't bad.  Low pressure test and some soapy water finds all your leaks.To keep water out of your pump filter, park the tank so that the side opposite the pump is the low end, this holds the water out of the way of the pump, and allows you to siphon it easier.I used to carry this in the back of the pickup against the back of the cab.  One thing to watch is to allow the fuel to settle for a while after you drive.  Otherwise all the sediment is up in the fuel, and goes to the filter.  Let it set for about 1/2hr before pumping.You can provide for mounting tabs to bolt it to the floor if you wish, they're handy.  Mine doesn't have any, and in hindsight I wish it did."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Interesting little tidbit............When the OHP trooper dooood did my DOT safety audit, he said I gotta carry 1 million in insurance if I carry any kind of equipment with fuel, batteries, oil, or antifreeze even if drained out of the vehicle.  This is to pay for the hazmat cleanup.  Ain't that a crock of pure unadulterated BS??So how's come cars don't have to have this?  They spill all sorts of crap on the highway when wrecked.  Trucks are cash cows for all the states and greedy business doods.  Gotta luv it"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Holy Crap, I'm carrying 750,000 insurance as it is!!!!!!!!!"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/