Multi-Pass Fillets With 6011

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Hey all,I'm excited that I have a project to share with you all here, but I'm also frightened cuz I've seen how ya'll tear into people. Anyway,This here is off of a PTO mower and it's where the upper blade attaches. My friend's son was getting ready to mow and he remembered it had a wobble and found out it was because of this. He was going to MIG it but I offered to arc weld it and he gladly handed it over to me. I really need to stop getting into things before thinking about them. So, I was going to grind out a big V and multi-pass weld it with the old Miller ac thunderbolt and 6011 1/8" rod, is this a correct approach? The thunderbolt really doesn't like 7018 AC and 6011 is the only stuff I've got that penetrates well. I can also truck my Idealarc over there and that would give me more rod options.While I'm here, the break is right at the almost 90 degree bend so I was going to grind the V on the outside of the bend. Is there a reason I should grind it on the inside? Thanks a bunch for any input. I'll post pictures of it during and after completion for your critique.
Reply:6011 should be fine for this. I doubt you'd need to do a multipass weld though unless I'm missing something. Material doesn't look all that thick. One good pass with 1/8" should be fine with a bit of prep. If the material is thinner than 3/16", 1/8" rod might be a bit too big. You might have more control with 3/32" rods if the material is 1/8" lets say, especially if you do a lot of beveling..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:7018 ac, at 140-150amps would be my choice.A 1/8 0r 5/32 6011, nice and hot should so good also.Don't worry, at least I won't tear into you....Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:Ha, I got back on because I forgot to specify thickness and I already got replies, It's at least a 1/2" maybe a little thicker. As usual, I only had my crap phone camera.AK, I've welded at all amperages on that buzz box and 7018 still runs cold on that thing. However, I don't keep in a hot locker, would it help if I zapped in a microwave or toaster oven? Thanks for not tearing into me
Reply:I used a little toaster oven for a while.Gave $1 for it at a garage sale....Held about 5lbs....Broil.Seriously,6011 cranked up, will do just fine...Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:Alright, I'll post pics soon and then you can all see if I can weld or not.
Reply:Don't be scared to try a pass with 3/32 7018ac. 6011 would be very good like everyone already said. So you won't feel bad consider yourself cussed out thoroughly and publicly humiliated by me. For no reason whatsoever.........No, I am not a woman.Arcon Workhorse 300MSPowcon 400SMTPowcon SM400 x 2Powcon SM3001968 SA200 Redface1978 SA250 DieselMiller Super 32P FeederPre 1927 American 14" High Duty LatheK&T Milwaukee 2H Horizontal MillBryan
Reply:If you take more pics, I want one of the rods while you're heating them up in the microwave.
Reply:Originally Posted by Drf255If you take more pics, I want one of the rods while you're heating them up in the microwave.
Reply:I remember when microwaves first came out. I was working in a refinery, you wouldn't believe how many guys put cans of soup in the microwaves there. Sometimes the same guy would do it 2 or 3 days in a row, like the results were going to change.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by Drf255If you take more pics, I want one of the rods while you're heating them up in the microwave.
Reply:Originally Posted by CabbagehatsHa, I was almost asleep last night, and then I realized, " Oh no! I look like an idiot!" It ain't my microwave but I can stage a welding fail if you would like.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPI remember when microwaves first came out. I was working in a refinery, you wouldn't believe how many guys put cans of soup in the microwaves there. Sometimes the same guy would do it 2 or 3 days in a row, like the results were going to change.
Reply:For the love of God Dave don't show all your seniority. Did they heat 7018 very well? Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveFirst came out? Are you referring to the 1954 Raytheon 1161 Radarange?
Reply:Originally Posted by CabbagehatsHa, I got back on because I forgot to specify thickness and I already got replies, It's at least a 1/2" maybe a little thicker. As usual, I only had my crap phone camera.AK, I've welded at all amperages on that buzz box and 7018 still runs cold on that thing. However, I don't keep in a hot locker, would it help if I zapped in a microwave or toaster oven? Thanks for not tearing into me
Reply:6011 is just fine.Last edited by MoonshineMetals; 05-18-2014 at 05:20 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by blawlessFor the love of God Dave don't show all your seniority. Did they heat 7018 very well?
Reply:Alright, it happened Tuesday and I documented it for your viewing pleasure, or displeasure as the case may be.Was greeted by a shiny new 9" grinder when I got to work which made me happy as I was not looking forward to grinding that bevel with a 4.5". As you can see I went a little overboard and my 45 degree V ended up closer to 90. After a couple of practice whips I nervously laid the root which shows I think as I went a little fast on it. Starting the fourth pass, whips getting a little more even. Finished and shined up so I look good but a little low so,I capped it with 3/32 7014 which at 135 amps had me blazing across the work. Still acted a little cold on the first two passes (that's why they're lumpy) but warmed up after and looked alright. 7014 welds so easy that I need to get some 3/32 7018 as Blawless suggested and try that out.
Reply:A few more picsMy welding/grinding station, complete with two fire extinguishers, and two buckets of greeen barrel water. Please note the International Harvester log splitter in the background, clearer pictures will be taken if desired.The welder, bought new 15+ years ago, still welds strong but found out Tuesday that the high range is bust so I have to open her up. Also the fan grumbles something fierce.The finished product, will hopefully mow again and again and again, but I am open to the possibility of it flying off at the first rock or stump or what-not. Forgot to take a picture of it, but I flipped it over and back gouged it until the crack was gone and filled it with 6011 and ground it back smooth.
Reply:looks to be a very good repair!Hobart Champion EliteMiller S-32p 12Lincoln sp175tLincoln 225 ac tombstoneHarris oxy/aceteleneMakita grinders/chopsawHypertherm Powermax 45
Reply:Looks a lot thicker in those picts than I'd originally expected.  Looks like it should hold. I'm not sure why you'd weld all of that up with 6011 only to cap with 7014 unless you simply ran out of rods, or simply wanted to "play". 135 amps 3/32" 7014 is super hot, so it's not surprise you had to go fast. 135 amps is on the hot side for 1/8" 7014.Your 6011 beads look like they improved as you went on. I see what looks like some undercutting in the 1st weld  pict. 2nd weld pict shows a fair amount of slag down in the cracks you may have burried if you didn't either crank up the amps and burn it out or clean it better before the next bead. Big question would be how did the back of your 1st pass look? 95% of the time it's that 1st pass that usually makes or breaks it with students on outside corners or v groove joints. They want to go too cold so they don't blow big holes in things and end up not getting good penetration to the back of the pieces. Of course with this, you could have always ran one from the back to deal with that.I'll also comment that the fillet on the closer one looks a bit concave. You could have either slowed down or added some more motion to get a bit more fill..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:You did a great job!!That thing will never come apart.That job was begging for 1/8 7018 though...Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:looking good. i would have used run-off tabs on the beveled multi pass weld but that's me. that repair should be plenty strong.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:Originally Posted by docwelderi would have used run-off tabs on the beveled multi pass weld but that's me.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPYou are in good company!Originally Posted by docwelderon that short run i would want every inch of weld to be perfect.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWI'm not sure why you'd weld all of that up with 6011 only to cap with 7014 unless you simply ran out of rods, or simply wanted to "play". 135 amps 3/32" 7014 is super hot, so it's not surprise you had to go fast. 135 amps is on the hot side for 1/8" 7014.
Reply:Low range on your machine has a higher OCV than the high tap.Generally go to the high tap when you run out of amps on the low side.Since you are running AC only you'll want 7018AC rods - but you likely knew that.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveGenerally go to the high tap when you run out of amps on the low side.Since you are running AC only you'll want 7018AC rods - but you likely knew that.
Reply:Originally Posted by CabbagehatsYeah, I don't know. I had the machine at 150 amps and the 7018 AC struck ok, but it was real sluggish and wanted to sputter. Had to go real slow and the welds were really piled. Tried to go to high tap for higher amps and it would strike sort of but I couldn't keep it going for more than a second. The fan has been crying for a while anyway so I'll open it up and give it a once over.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveAh, you already knew there was a difference, the low tap (with higher OCV) runs them better.
Reply:You use it when the low tap runs out of amps - then run the high tap.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Here's a pic of your volt/amp curves. Note the low tap has the higher voltage for a while.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by CabbagehatsI was originally going to weld it 6011 through and through but those craters made me a little low so I switched to something that didn't dig as much so I could finish the weld up better and at a leisurely pace so I wasn't nerky and jervously playing chicken with the puddle. Also I knew the 1/8" 7018 didn't weld well on the machine and 7014 I'd heard mixed reviews about so I felt the only rod I could do a decent job with was the 6011. My instructor taught me hot, close, fast and I take it a little literally sometimes. The guy I work for does cold, whatever, slow and I can't get him to change. Yeah I haven't practiced much with 6011 so it's hard to get the whip even when you are 14" inches away from the weld. I think that that undercutting is actually slag as I slowed up more towards the end but it could be, I hit each pass with a wire brush so I cleaned that crap out before the next weld so the inclusions are hopefully minimal. Back of the first pass went through a little but not much so I did grind out a groove along the crack and filled it back in.I was taught that concave was stronger but I think what you are referring to is my whip being a little loose and I agree I could have come back and filled a little more.AKweldshop, I'm going to fix the high range on the buzzbox and then I'll let you know if it handles 7018 better. Would've been my first choice too.  Docwelder, I think I know what you mean but what do these tabs look like? would've been a lot easier having something to help with filling those craters.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveYou use it when the low tap runs out of amps - then run the high tap.
Reply:Originally Posted by docwelderrun off tabs are small pieces of flat or angle that extend on either end of the bevel about an inch and are cut off after the weld is completed. the weld is started and finished on these tabs.
Reply:Cabbage hats,I know what you mean.I was running a 5/32 lincoln 7018 on a AC225, and it would not run!!!I started at 180amps, up to 225amps.You had to hold a 1/2in arc length, any closer and the arc would go out.I don't know what to say....Except,Buy a DC machine...Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:1/2"? I will experiment before I clean it and inspect it.as for DC,how about this one?
Reply:Those are great little machines! I gave $50.00 for one at an auction once. It also had a Miller high freq box too. Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by CEP It also had a Miller high freq box too.
Reply:Does that machine come with any leads??If no leads, it isn't worth a $100.Leads are worth $1 - $2 o foot.Two of my old welding friends, have had the larger model, the Idealarc 300, in there shops for over 40yrs.The machine run 3/16 7018 really nice....Anyway,A DC machine will shock you, to how you've been missing out on it.Its like bucketing 20,000lbs of grain, by 5 gallon bucket, then standing back watching the auger pump 2,000lbs per minute.Not quite thoughAn everlast powerarc 200 is a good buy, and will weld great....But that machine you showed there, has been running for 30-40yrs, and if it still works good, it will last another 20.It has a nice 7018 arc.Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:Originally Posted by CabbagehatsFor TIG? Like a scratch start?
Reply:AKweldshop-- Came with a whole mess of cables that I never actually measured till about now. 35' leads in 3/0 and a 100' extension in....something. I'll know when I replace the ends. extension is copper which is nice. I first welded on that Thunderbolt in this thread but I learned to weld on idealarc 250s and I quite like them so this should be a cuter version of that. CEP-- Would like to think about a scratch start just so I can say I did. I've done a little tig welding but need more practice. That Everlast looks nice, but I guess I'll have to be content with my 1960s technology...
Reply:Originally Posted by CabbagehatsCEP-- Would like to think about a scratch start just so I can say I did. I've done a little tig welding but need more practice. That Everlast looks nice, but I guess I'll have to be content with my 1960s technology...
Reply:Someday when I'm rich and spoiled I'll have every welder I could ever possibly need . Thanks for the ebay tip, i frequent that place a lot so I'll just add another item to cruise for. But for right now, I have to see how much I'm actually going to use my little lincoln.
Reply:Originally Posted by CabbagehatsAKweldshop-- Came with a whole mess of cables that I never actually measured till about now. 35' leads in 3/0 and a 100' extension in....something. I'll know when I replace the ends. extension is copper which is nice. I first welded on that Thunderbolt in this thread but I learned to weld on idealarc 250s and I quite like them so this should be a cuter version of that. CEP-- Would like to think about a scratch start just so I can say I did. I've done a little tig welding but need more practice. That Everlast looks nice, but I guess I'll have to be content with my 1960s technology...
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopDid you buy that idealarc 180 machine???
Reply:Originally Posted by Cabbagehatsis it alright that I bought it?
Reply:Yep,Will it not run 7018 on DC????Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopYep,Will it not run 7018 on DC????