help me fix my hay feeder

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So i scored a deal on a beat up and broken hay feeder.  Got whats left of the rings and the hoops for $20.  These things are well over $100 new, and about $70 if they are still decent.so here's the heap:heres the hoops:so obviously, its rusty.so i started off by grinding as much as i could, and tacked it with 3/32" 6011, then tried a full weld with the same:then i capped it with a couple passes of 3/32" 6013my thinking was that the 6011 would burn through the rust and the 6013 would fill in the gaps.  i had troubles controlling the 6011 on such tin metal, though. so i[m thinking i might just stick with 6013 all the way through.they are kinda ugly, but the welds appeared to be stronger than the metal when i was bending on them to see if they were worth a poop.I'm on AC stick, so i'm somewhat limited on what i can do.what do you guys think? am i on the right track, or way off in left field?at the end of the day, i got two of them reattached, so i think i can save it!
Reply:Honestly, I'd just leave it alone, thats gonna take way more effort than its worth...But, if you want to fix it...Id stay with the 6011. 6013 produces very weak welds, but yes, they're probably stronger than that metal.Staying with 6011 will also help to fight your problems with porosity. Maybe you're running too cold/and/or using the wrong drag angle. Hopefully, this will help you :Good luck [Account Abandoned 8/8/16 Please Do Not Attempt Contact Or Expect A Reply]. See you on YouTube! -ChuckE2009
Reply:What's hay worth in your area? I'd pay the $100 any day over fixing that. Maybe make a stencil from what's there, and make one with fresh steel? That stuff is so thin and rusted, it'll never handle a bale being dropped or a rough bull wanting hay.My $0.02Bruce
Reply:He must have meant $1000 new. I wouldn't have touched it if new was only $100.
Reply:Looks like they are about $300 new.  http://www.tractorsupply.com/galvani...-skirt-3603190
Reply:The best use for your money is use it as a template and make a new one....... The metal is thin, rusty, and not worth the effort......When the steel is 1/16th thick and rusty, you might have 1/32nd of decent metal to work with....... Slightly thicker than aluminum foil........Precision TIG 185 and MP 210Bobcat 225NTCutmaster 42O/A tanks.... 2 Argon tanks...... 2 C25 TanksFacebook...... F2 Metal WorksETSY....... https://www.etsy.com/shop/F2MetalWorksF2MetalWorks.com....... http://www.f2metalworks.com/
Reply:Looks like the cattle pretty well beat it up the first go-round when it was new and stronger(?).Looks like the metal that's left could be beat up by some goats....may be a lost cause if you have to spend more $$ on steel than it's worth.  Good luck with it.
Reply:I would use the 6011 just try and tac it on like 45 amps or something similar with the 3 32s 6011 to much heat for to long is going to be extremly hard. You can probably do it but I think unless you are really strapped for cash some new sheet metal would make it look 100% better off.Vantage 300 kubota ,miller 304 xmt ,lincoln ln 25 pro , ranger 305 G, plenty of other tools of the trade to make the sparks fly.
Reply:The guy should've paid you $20 to haul it off. Good luck if you choose to repair.DannyMy SiteJust worrying 'bout what I can't get to today.
Reply:I've welded on those things so many times I cringe just seeing the pictures. I've got 2 of them laying over in the steel pile now in various state of disrepair. They are made paper thin. I always used 6010/11 turned way down. With rust and poor fit up pretty much have to spot weld. Get good at it because it is a constant battle keeping them repaired.Horses are hard on them because they lean on the rungs. Cattle like to climb into them. Once they break the edges are like razor blades.I doubt I'd want to tackle that one. For the work involved still end up with a light duty feeder. Better spend the time to build something from scratch with much heavier materials.AlA man is judged by what's between his legs...always ride a good horseMiller DialArc HFLincoln Classic 300DThermal Arc 181iPowermax 45Scotchman Ironworker(2) BridgeportsOkomota Surface GrinderAutoCAD 2010
Reply:Originally Posted by SmokinPRanchI've welded on those things so many times I cringe just seeing the pictures. I've got 2 of them laying over in the steel pile now in various state of disrepair. They are made paper thin. I always used 6010/11 turned way down. With rust and poor fit up pretty much have to spot weld. Get good at it because it is a constant battle keeping them repaired.Horses are hard on them because they lean on the rungs. Cattle like to climb into them. Once they break the edges are like razor blades.I doubt I'd want to tackle that one. For the work involved still end up with a light duty feeder. Better spend the time to build something from scratch with much heavier materials.Al
Reply:LOL, like SmokinP said, the cattle get inside & make a mess.My neighbor gets these from time to time & says it's much worse when you forget to feed them... They get mad at the feeder & really make a mess of things.Do the best you can at fixing it I guessMatt
Reply:ok, if you can bed the metal by hand, what do you think livestock is going to do to it? I can assure you people were not the cause of that thing getting bent and broken that bad... if it happened once it will happen again. I'd use it as a template and build from heavier new stock.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:i could only bend it by hand because it was not tied together at the bottom yet.  i just wanted to test the welds at the top.if you build them any heavier then you cannot lift them over a bail without a loader.  as it is, it is a two man job.i have to admit ... i a little surprised at all the negativity.  it really isn't that bad, the metal is pretty solid, it is just that horses have a way of breaking stuff.  they just leaned on the hoops hard enough to tear the metal.  it didn't rust out and then break, honestly i don't think it is that old.  had it been mine from day one, i would not have let it get beaten up this bad before starting to fix on it.you guys must just have a ton more money than i do .... especially if the thought of saving $300 has no interest to you.if it happened once .... no kidding .. they're horses ... sheeesh!i found some 1/16" 6011, so i guess i'm gonna try that and see if i can keep from burning through.  save that, i'll just use the 3/32" 6013, as that ran really nice.Last edited by Meborder; 11-23-2012 at 08:28 PM.
Reply:If you have access to a smallmig welder with flux core wire that would be the ticket on the really thin sheet metal. The 1/16 rods will def help out also I always like using the 6011 because they restart alot easier so you can just tack weld it to keep from buring through.Vantage 300 kubota ,miller 304 xmt ,lincoln ln 25 pro , ranger 305 G, plenty of other tools of the trade to make the sparks fly.
Reply:I always used 1/8" 6010 since it was what I had on hand. Once you get the hang of it it isn't too bad. Jump around and do small tack welds to keep things cool. Once you get a little metal built up you can almost run a bead. I've even used rod stubs to lay in gaps as a filler to weld over. The sheet metal probably be the worst. You'd have to make sure there are no edges they can get cut up on. Being bent up like that take a bit of straightening and a lot of weld. Check price of a sheet that would fit...price might not be too bad if you ask and can find some drops or salvaged stuff.I wouldn't want the bottom open I don't think. They can get a leg under it or their head. We had a cattle type feeder given to us once for a few weeks before we gave it back.. Besides the missing mane hair I saw my gelding Bandit pick it up with his neck and carry it off the hay.Once you get er done put up some pictures. You'll have to keep an eye on it cause like you said the welds will hold the steel will tear. Curious how are you moving round bales without a loader? Most times we would roll the feeder on it's side over to the bale then do a sort of controlled flop over it. Wife could do it by herself that way. Moving the feeder with a loader is usually at least as hard on it as the livestock. Once you get good at fixing these things you'll be able to weld a 1/2" gap on a piece of tin foil in the rain on a windy day. It can be done with the right welder, the right rod and the right cuss words. Actually makes a pretty cool echo if you don't flip the hood up before using the cuss words.AlA man is judged by what's between his legs...always ride a good horseMiller DialArc HFLincoln Classic 300DThermal Arc 181iPowermax 45Scotchman Ironworker(2) BridgeportsOkomota Surface GrinderAutoCAD 2010
Reply:the sheet metal that is loose is toast.  it is a remove and replace for sure.  or at least remove.  the edges are too rusty and thin to try and reattach.  I'll see if i can score some sheet for cheap, maybe some expanded metal or something would work too.we had to move bales today; I should have shot a video for you.  We have a loader, but it is almost more work than not using it.  It's an old Du-All loader on a Massy-Harris Wide-front 44 special.  no live power and no power steering.  the loader will lift a bale, but then i can't turn the steering wheel.to move bales we usually either drag them behind the plow truck with a long cable, or push them with the loader.  im sure its like watching a monkey hump a foot ball, but it gets it done for us.a better tractor is on the list of needs, but the roof, water heater, and now the furnace this year had to come first.... we make do.I think i'm going to find some heavy gauge wire, like they use for hanging mufflers, and try to wrap that around the back side of the hoop and tie it into the front side of the ring.  it's not a very strong design the way they have it.  needs something that will keep the hoop from ripping out of the ring.didn't have time to mess with it today, we'll see what tomorrow brings.
Reply:Whereabouts are you located?A man is judged by what's between his legs...always ride a good horseMiller DialArc HFLincoln Classic 300DThermal Arc 181iPowermax 45Scotchman Ironworker(2) BridgeportsOkomota Surface GrinderAutoCAD 2010
Reply:Originally Posted by LanseBut, if you want to fix it...Id stay with the 6011. 6013 produces very weak welds, but yes, they're probably stronger than that metal.
Reply:i'm outside of sioux falls SD.I got all but one hoop welded back on.  The welds are pretty solid, but i'll admit they look like bird doo-do.I learned a couple things ... welding thin metal with an AC only welder is a challenge no matter what rod you use.   Also, 6011 is both a powerful tool, and a dangerous weapon, depending on your skill level.i still think i'm going to try and find some heavy gauge wire to reinforce the pipe connections.  just kind of a weak design by nature.i ended up settling on 3/32" 6013 at about 65amps.  when it ran good it ran really good, but when it didn't run well, it ended up globbing on like bird doo.  I'm sure its the operator getting his drag angle wrong as he went around the pipe.  I did get one nice vertical weld too, so i was happy with that Still going to try and find something to close in the bottom.  i need to practice some more with sheet metal for other projects, so this is a good opportunity.These types of projects are great for learning the limits of your skill level, and pushing them to become better. and i don't car what anyone says .... learning is never a waste of time.
Reply:I don't know your financial situation, but I'd rather make a good feeder than try to ressurect a lousy one that will fall apart AGAIN.You can do simple if you have a front end loader that you can drop bales into the feeder.Or a little more complex with a door so you can use a 3pt bale spike to load the feeder thru the door.While it may seem expensive at the get-go, the money spent is a one time deal.  These have lasted me for over a decade, and still counting.  3" channel, and 11ga and 3/16 tubing.  And heavy too, no more getting trashed by the bull."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:farmersamm,thanks for the pics!  those are nice feeders, for sure!  I would love to build something along those lines, as like you said, they would be a one time investment.  however, as it stands right now, i have neither the time, nor tools, nor money for such a project.  As for my current state of finances, at the risk of playing the worlds saddest little song on the worlds smallest violin, lets just say that this year has kicked my proverbial arse money-wise.  With the birth of our son, which included a 1-week stay in the NICU for him, and two return trips to the ER for my wife, one for emergency surgery ... added to the the new roof, water-heater, and in two weeks a new furnace .... suffice to say that i'm in the market for $20 hayfeeders ... hence the project above.  but your pictures are inspiring, none-the-less.as for me, i was able to make just a tad bit if progress.  I was able to find some 1/4" A36 smooth bar which i can use to reinforce the tube-tube connection for the hoops.  I got one welded in and it appears that it will be a pretty easy modification to make, albeit a little time consuming bending and welding in all the connections:i used 3/32" 6013 at about 70 amps on the high tap.  seemed to start better on the high tap, and didn't want to burn through, so i think i'll keep with that for now.  If i could use the 6011 without making swiss cheese, i would .. but alas ..sorry for the poor quality pics, but it was almost pitch black out yesterday morning when i took the pics before i left for work.total cost for a 20' length of the 1/4" bar was about $4 including taxI was also able to find a 15"x 96" scrap of 16ga HR sheet. that size is almost the perfect size i need to replace the one piece of skirting that was not salvageable. so i'll be able to have a full skirt for the feeder, which is good. total cost for the sheet was $14 including tax.so here's what it looks like so far with all but one hoop re-attached:i need to massage some of the attachment points with my 2lb hammer to get a flat spot to reattach the last hoop, so that's why i didn't get that one done yet.so .. $20 for the feeder, $14 for the sheet steel, and $4 for the rebar. ... $38 bucks so far and a couple hours worth of time... not too bad, if you ask me.
Reply:Just out of principle, I like scrounging. If you're near to town, you might check with any large plumbing or electrical contractors to see if they ever do any major rebuilding/replacement work so have any pipe or conduit to dispose of. The price of steel still being high, they may sell it all for scrap, but may also not want to bother, so give it to you if you remove it for them. Also, if the framework of your circle is sturdy and the spacing close enough (from extra free or cheap pipe), the thin sheets from the outside of water heaters might even be strong enough to form the skin. Most heaters now use foam insulation, so it's a pain to get the sheet off, even using a small torch to heat the skin and melt the foam  ---  but as you say, free is sometimes worth it. Old rectangular refrigerators and washers have pretty tough steel boxes, and lots of other similar sources exist, at least in many urban areas; are you close enough to any such areas, or ever have the time to look?
Reply:Originally Posted by Meborderso .. $20 for the feeder, $14 for the sheet steel, and $4 for the rebar. ... $38 bucks so far and a couple hours worth of time... not too bad, if you ask me.
Reply:^^^  That's right.  You saved $250.  Even if you have 10 hours in it, which i doubt you do, that is $25 per hour...Not a bad hourly wage if you ask me.   You have to think of what you go paid to do it for yourself.  Your eithier at work making the money or home working on your own stuff and saving it.so, time is to work on stuff is always short, but i dedicated about a half-hour last night and got the sheet metal tacked in.  It wasn't too cold last night when my wife got home from her drill team practice (at 10pm ....)  and it is supposed to snow today, so i had to go outside and put the plow truck in the shed anyway, and the sheet metal for the hay feeder has just been laying on the concrete, so i figgured i'd just stay out side and actually get something done.sorry for the crappy pics but it is always pitch black when i do stuff.like i said, it is just tacked in 3 spots on the top rail and one spot on the bottom (which i boogerd up).  It looks crooked to me in the pic, and it might be, but the rails arent straight so it is anybody's guess.  This is much more about function than form anyway.  that .. and it was pitch black and my portable shop light blew up the night before, so i was lucky to get anything done at all.anyway ... if anyone is intrested, i'm still working on it. Question:how much weld should i put on to hold on the sheet metal?  I was thinking 1" long welds every 1.5' or so alon the top and bottom.  too much? not enough?
Reply:Hey there you go. Nothing beats ambition. Looking nice!Swing by here and I'll turn you loose on the 2 we have over in the metal pile!Bet your a better welder now than when you started. Them things will teach you about filling gaps, heat control, etc. pretty darn quick. Learn some pretty colorful words too.AlA man is judged by what's between his legs...always ride a good horseMiller DialArc HFLincoln Classic 300DThermal Arc 181iPowermax 45Scotchman Ironworker(2) BridgeportsOkomota Surface GrinderAutoCAD 2010
Reply:Originally Posted by Oldiron2Just out of principle, I like scrounging.
Reply:I think i'm going to stick a fork in it for now.  I've got all the hoops welded back on, the new sheet of 16ga HR welded in, and the rest of the scabby-rusty sheet metal tacked back together.here's how it looks from far enough away to make it look decent.Here's some obligatory close ups of my booger weldsrepresentative example of the welds holding on the new sheet metal.  welded horizontal (just as you see in the pic) with 1/16" 6013I tried to get a pic of the new welds holding the old sheeting i did not replace, but they came out fuzzy.  I stood the ring up on it's side and welded them downhill with 1/16" 6011.All i can say there, is weld fast! .... the old sheet was thin to begin with and being rusty made it hard not to just burn through.It's as good as it is going to get.  I think i'm going to forego the 1/4" wire for now.  when it breaks again, then that will be the way i piece it back together.  after that it will be done for sure.the good part is now that i have this one done i can start making legs for the other two.... another learning experience, to be sure.no regrets,  i learned lots, and got to repair something that we can use.  turns out that welding thin metal with an AC only arc welder is exactly as difficult as i thought it would be.... but i got it done!thanks to the group for the kind words and the pointers on how to make it work!Mike
Reply:Considering that the round tubing is probably only 14ga at best, the welds are good.  It's hard to work with thin metal, and not burn thru.  On second thought, the tubing might even be down in the lower ga side of things, I'm not sure about the available ga on tubing.Anyhoo.........good heat control "Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Whoever charged you $20 for that should be ashamed of himself. I've got to give you credit for working with what you have to make ends meet.