New Tungstens Suck!!!

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I know this has been discussed probably to death in here but.....Being a pro active safety kinda guy and professional welder, I decided to go away from the "bad" tungsten thoriated, and try lanthiated and then by suggestion of my Miller rep, ceriated. I found that neither of them perform like the bad stuff!!!  I have a Dynasty 200DX and a Maxstar 150, and I'm constantly sharpening tungsten.  Doesn't matter if it's straight DC on stainless or AC freq on alum.  I realized that the tungsten has to be prepped differently, you can't have a sharp point, and you can't ball the tip for alum, and grind has to be fairly smooth, but still, not really happy with it. With the thoriated, I used either a an angle grinder or a chop saw, never had an issue.  I think it's crazy to buy a $600 or $800 or more tungsten grinder, holy crap!!!!Anybody have any thoughts?CR
Reply:Ive never encountered the problems your describing.I switched from Thor. because i didn't have much success on AC.Now I'm running 1.5 Lanth. with a couple of Cer. in the mix, but honestly, i couldn't tell you which is which.I threw my Thor.'s in the bin because i didn't want them mixed with my Lanth. ( i grind both ends so i dont have colours anymore )
Reply:Ya got to break them in first man.I put em in the fry pan with a little pam cooking spray and lightly brown them. Then they fly right.And as far as grinding just do like some, break off the bad stuff and just have at it.Personally I just use the good old red thoriated stuff on my 200, and the 2% lanthanated on the others. The cook up real nice!Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:If you sharpen both ends, do you need to remove the paint from the rod or can you weld with the just the sharpened section without contamination?Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Hello CR, if I am reading your post correctly you are essentially saying that you don't understand what all the hype is about regarding the newer tungsten compositions and specifically those suggested by your Miller rep. I believe one of the first things that you will find in particular is that your Dynasty has so much more adjustability and capability than a conventional transformer/rectifier based machine that it is likely that you can adjust out the issues with tungsten bearding, spitting or other nasties that typically discourage 2% thoriated as an aluminum electrode choice. Possibly unknowingly or knowlingly you have figured out how to utilize your machine adjustments to the optimum positions and results. The newer tungsten alloys have some really great characteristics and many times these characteristics allow for successful welding with less than ideal machine settings. Yet, if you happen to not suffer from machine settingitus you might not really notice these differences. Give them a chance and certainly consider the requirements of these specific tungsten types. In the same manner that the 2% thoriated ones require certain considerations these new ones do too. Good luck and best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawIf you sharpen both ends, do you need to remove the paint from the rod or can you weld with the just the sharpened section without contamination?
Reply:Hey Allan, yes I do understand why we're switching tungsten, mainly because of health hazards,  but I don't see ANY performance advantages to the new tungsten, but quite the opposite.  I do understand that the new inverter machines are much on tungsten than the tranny machines like my old Lincoln SW175, so glad I sold that!!!!When I first started using the new stuff, it was spitting and contaminating the weld puddle.  Then I read how to grind itI just haven't found anything better about yet.....CR
Reply:Hi CR, what you may find is that 3 years from now you might be looking back and thinking differently. Just a thought! I certainly hope that i haven't come across as being critical of your position, that certainly hasn't been my intent. Best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:Alan, not at all, it's all good.....Ten years from now we won't have a choice, the bad stuff won't be available!!!!  I'd be willing to bet that the thoriated tungsten is probably what's left on the shelf, and they're not manufacturing any new stuff.CR
Reply:Originally Posted by ny_racer_xxx I think it's crazy to buy a $600 or $800 or more tungsten grinder, holy crap!!!!
Reply:I bought some cheap lanthanated I got off ebay for like $15 for a 10 pack, works fine in my ta185tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:I find that 2% Lanthanated performs the best of all.  That's on my Dynasty and was on my TA185.  Point stays sharper than thoriated.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Originally Posted by dstevensYou don't have to.  There are hand held units that work well for a couple hundred bucks.  I got a brand new TechSouth the previous owner didn't use on eBay for 150 bucks.  The newer tungstens work just as well using a dedicated bench grinder, though I prefer the handheld.
Reply:I switched to 2% Lanthanated when I got a free sample from DiamondGround.com and I found that the 2% Lanth held up slightly better on my scratch-start rig than the 2% Thor did. I also grind my tungsten on a HF mini 3" bench grinder with a stone wheel, and then polish the tip on the scotch-brite-like wheel on the other end of the grinder.Last edited by blasphemy000; 06-15-2012 at 09:20 AM.Reason: Forgot something...Brad GeorgeCurrent Equipment:AIRCO Heliwelder IV 300Amp Model - Total Awesomeness!Old 120v Hobart Handler MIGVarious grinders, cutting tools, hammers, clamps, ect..."I'm an amateur welder with lots left to learn..."
Reply:I use RED all the time..Ya know..the "Bad" stuff..Here.Read this.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=13220All this concern is just plain nonsense....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:this picture shows a cheap way to get a good grind and not be exposed to the sparks.. Attached Images
Reply:Went to the new HF in the Bronx todayI bought the circular saw blade sharpener that has a diamond wheel, it will BTW sharpen a Metal Devil saw blade, so it already paid for itself when a blade is over fitty bucks, and the sharpener cost that.  I did also sharpen a tungsten with it, and I really like the fact that it doesn't spark, and leaves a nice finish.  I did it free hand, but just as nice looking as if I did it on the grinder, or better.I did also buy a set of diamond grinders wheels for the die grinder and rotary tool.  I chucked it up in my air die grinder and ground some tungsten with that, not too shabby either.  I'm thinking of getting a B&D rotary tool just exactly like the $200+ dollar Tech South unit, machine up a holder from alum, and make my own grinder....I bought some 3/8" drive extension in black oxide for a Tee Handle project, I'm going to tig it with the tungsten I ground today with the diamond wheels, and see if my opinion changes....CRCR2 Welding and Fabricationwww.cr2fabrication.webs.comMiller Dynasty 200DXMiller Maxstar 150Hobart Handler 187 with Spoolgun
Reply:I used to use a bench grinder to sharpen my tungsten until I got arc wonder out the azz....... I then decidet to try a small benchtop belt sander a buddy left in the shop, it was already loaded with a green zirconia 80 grit belt......works beautifuly and best of all, no more arc wonder (nice and smooth) SQUARE WAVE 175 TIG   DUAL MIG 151
Reply:Yes, I have a belt/disc sander I was using sometimes also.  It seems the newer tungstens are really picky about how smooth the grinding is, mine was spitting like crazy until I got them real smooth....CRPS Lincoln SW175, cool...  That was my first tig rig, I hated it!!!  I sold it 10 years later for exactly what I paid for it new, bought a used Dyansty, never looked back...CR2 Welding and Fabricationwww.cr2fabrication.webs.comMiller Dynasty 200DXMiller Maxstar 150Hobart Handler 187 with Spoolgun
Reply:Here's a picture of the Tee Handle I made up.  I don't see any inclusion, so that's good, but the tungsten was way more worn that it should have been. I also did a repair on a motorcycle frame, that looks pretty good as well.  The first tack looked nasty, I dialed in some more cleaning, about 60% on the machine, much better.  Ah well, definitely better grinding it with the diamond blade.CR Attached ImagesCR2 Welding and Fabricationwww.cr2fabrication.webs.comMiller Dynasty 200DXMiller Maxstar 150Hobart Handler 187 with Spoolgun
Reply:I have had no problems with the 2% that I have been getting, sharpen both ends and run with em"Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:I use red, the bad stuff. The stuff that I prefer the way it starts, runs and holds up.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:I use the "bad" stuff myself, and I seem to prefer transformer based welders over inverters, especially with aluminum. Maybe I haven't had enough time to play with others, or haven't had a situation where an inverter can show its merit better.
Reply:I got to run the Dynasty 300 at the Miller under the hood event using ceriated tungsten ...I think i'm in loveIt took me 4 lap joints just to get to were i could run something that looked like a bead ...i have not pick up a tig torch in yearsEven stuck the tungsten to the material once but didn't mess up the tungsten Was my first time running an inverter and first time running anything but green or red tungstenMostly run the syncro wave machines..It would take me a long time just to learn what this machine can doBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Originally Posted by killdozerd11I got to run the Dynasty 300 at the Miller under the hood event using ceriated tungsten ...I think i'm in loveIt took me 4 lap joints just to get to were i could run something that looked like a bead ...i have not pick up a tig torch in yearsEven stuck the tungsten to the material once but didn't mess up the tungsten Was my first time running an inverter and first time running anything but green or red tungstenMostly run the syncro wave machines..It would take me a long time just to learn what this machine can doNo doubt a "good" inverter will make you  a better welder.....Aluminum is amazing with my Dynasty, I have even FAQ'd with the DC part of it....CRCR2 Welding and Fabricationwww.cr2fabrication.webs.comMiller Dynasty 200DXMiller Maxstar 150Hobart Handler 187 with Spoolgun