Autobody welding ???

admin

Hey guys, I am new to this forum and it has been awhile since I have welded any sheet metal.  I am having problems with burn through, also cannot remember what the gas flow should be set to.I am using a Clarke 103EN gas with C-25 gas and .023 wire.  I know it is not the best welder to use, but I sold my old Hobart a long time ago and got this for free.  I have not welded any sheet metal with it until now, but it does work well for 1/8 stock, hopefully it will work for this too.I am current working on smoothing an engine bay and am trying to weld up the holes.  The problem is I am getting a lot of burn through.  I am using a copper backer and have the volts set to low and wire feed set to about 4.  The gas is set to 22 or so, but I cannot find the manual to find to confirm that setting.  I have test welded on some new 22 gauge and it seems to work great, but on the car it burns through, and according to my caliper the car is 22 gauge as well, with no rust.Any help is much appreciated.
Reply:Hi Backfocus, here's a link to the Clarke manuals. When I weld sheet metal, it's usually a bunch of tack welds versus 1 longer run. Jump around and don't put too much heat into the metal to avoid warping it. Good luckhttp://microzone.us/weldingforum/ind...ic,1094.0.htmlIf you don't want to stand behind our Troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
Reply:Thanks for the link SWells,I am only welding in short burst, just filling in small holes in the engine bay, but no many of them it will burn through right off the bat.
Reply:Originally Posted by backfocusThanks for the link SWells,I am only welding in short burst, just filling in small holes in the engine bay, but no many of them it will burn through right off the bat.
Reply:Well Dave, I tried changing the polarity and it did seem to help a little.  I got it adjusted, but it now seems like it just leaves more weld on top, which just mean more grinding.Question, is it because of the welder that I have or is this common with all brands of the 110v welders.  If not what is a good 110 welder for auto body that is known for sure to work.
Reply:I did a lot of my car with a crappy 110v Campbell Hausfeld and it worked fine. I currently have a 130en, my guess is you haven't got something set up right. Double check the settings against the manual polarity and 1-4/wirespeed. You should be able to do it with that welder.If you don't want to stand behind our Troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
Reply:Originally Posted by backfocusWell Dave, I tried changing the polarity and it did seem to help a little.  I got it adjusted, but it now seems like it just leaves more weld on top, which just mean more grinding.Question, is it because of the welder that I have or is this common with all brands of the 110v welders.  If not what is a good 110 welder for auto body that is known for sure to work.
Reply:You might want to do a search on ebay for a shrinking disc, it will help later, because it looks like you might have some upset from all this heat, make sure your metal is clean and like every other post move the bead around slowly, allow your torch to cool every now and then.If you don't orient your gun to the weld the same time, everytime you resume your bead will look poor and possibly have pinholes later that can bubble through the paint.Use weld thu primer if you want no rust later (like on a box section), and if possible get a dolly, or someone to hold the corner of the dolly in on a hot weld to knock out some of the upset out of the edges of the weld.Also stay with .028 wire.Burning through, you welding steel or rust?Last edited by pistolnoon; 01-11-2009 at 11:44 PM.
Reply:Thanks for all the respones guys.  I will keep working and trying different settings. I am welding steel, 22 gauge according to my caliper.  No rust at all on the car, even though it is 19 years old I have always kept it garaged.  As for how I am welding, I have started filling in the holes of the passengers side.  I am just tack welding to fill in the holes, no welds are longer than probably a second maybe two, then I will move to a different part of the same side.  The small holes  (the size a sheet metal screw would fit in) don't seem to give me much problem but the bigger holes ( say 3/8" and wider) are where I am getting the burn thru.  I mean as soon as the spark hits the hole gets bigger.An I am using Bloxide, primer.Maybe I am doing something wrong still it has been 15 years or so since it last welded any sheet metal.In this pict you can see some of the holes I am trying to fill, I know the larger, bigger the 1/2" I need to make patches for.
Reply:Most assuredly it is your wire size and heat settings, because it is not an expensive mig their are no taps to fine tune the heat settings, maybe try, 028 wire (small rolls are cheap) or o/a or if you know someone with a tig start the weld off with mild steel rod then pull away and use the car as filler rod.Same thing watch your heat. With the Thermaldyne 190 I have and .030 if their is anything there for steel it will fill it, good control, rarely start stopping, no problem, rust no way...maybe try perfecting technique on scrap steel.Another thought I have is possibly galvanized steel making it hard to weld with the proper heat.I know GM's used to galvanize their vehicles and you could not get a "Spotter Stud" to stick to it unless you ground it off.Other possiblities are your gun focus, I believe if you go to the Miller publications they can explain it for you but what you may possibly be doing is putting the heat to the car and not the wire with wrong technique.If that is the case and you cannot get good access, consider using filler panels with the edges set up for lap welds, which is sound patch.Oil on the steel?Last edited by pistolnoon; 01-12-2009 at 01:53 AM.
Reply:Filling holes in steel metal has become a lot easier since Bob Drake has offered his "Weld-in Hole Repair Kit" variety pak.  Each disc is high quality steel 3/64 " thick (18 gauge).  The kit includes 25 each of the following sizes.  1.25", 1", 7/8", 3/4", 5/8", 1/2", 3/8", and 5/16".  The part number is HR-1580.You need to drill out the smaller holes in your sheet metal to match a disc size.  The fit should be very tight.  Hold the disc in place with tape on the back side prior to inital tack welding.  Hammer and dolly or clamp to guarantee that the top surface of the disc is flush with the top surface of the sheet metal as you weld.    Use a "heat sink clay" to isolate your welding area from the adjacent area to prevent warping.   Remove the tape on the back side of the disc after the inital tacks are completed. Weld with a mixture of argon/CO2 gas not CO2. .Cut the welds with a 3/16" wide cut-off disc.  A thinner cut-off disc will tend to hang up or go too deep too fast.Before you do any metal finishing, you need to make sure that the welds on both sides of the sheet metal are ground down to the sheet metal's thickness.  Consider using a fiberglass reinforced filler for recessed seams or "metal-to-metal" or "all metal" for a skim coat over welds.  These products will help seal the weld and reduce the risk of shrinkage of primer/paint at the bead.  Hope this helps.Lauran
Reply:You might also want to try one of the MIG fillers designed to be easy to grind. Something like the ESAB easy grind.
Reply:Hey just had an auto body and paint job in my car. Now thinking about doing change of interior and outside look to make it better, any reference for auto body shop in Scranton city.
Reply:even a crappy welding mig is easier then doing body work with a buzzbox (been there and done that) LOTS ( pre mig)Miller thunderbolt 250Decastar 135ERecovering tool-o-holic ESAB OAI have been interested or involved in Electrical, Fire Alarm, Auto, Marine, Welding, Electronics ETC to name a just a few. So YES you can own too many tools.
Reply:If you want to see bodywork, have a look at this very impressive work.http://retrorides.proboards.com/inde...t&thread=65793
Reply:That is impressive work, takes a ton of patience to make it through a job like that one. That's a $50k body job with the labor in it.If you don't want to stand behind our Troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
Reply:Originally Posted by lilredexIf you want to see bodywork, have a look at this very impressive work.http://retrorides.proboards.com/inde...t&thread=65793
Reply:As mentioned "Tacking with Pulses"  works better on thin stuff than flooring the trigger and running a bead.......Let heat build up = no burn through  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:you could also try holding or clamping a copper block behind the hole when you weld.miller thunderbolt 250vlincoln square wave tig 175 prolincoln idealarc mig sp250everlast tig 210EXTeverlast power plasma 50chicago electric (hf) 130 tig/90 arcchicago electric 90 amp flux wire3 sets oxy/acet
Reply:OP mentioned he had the hole copper backed.  All the sheet metal work I am doing right now I am using .035 wire for. Here and there where there was rust or stuff I will burn threw but over all its working out alright.Another thing to keep in mind is even though the material is 22 gauge, where it is bent, in corners, or punched out holes it may be stretched much thinner.