Plasma Free Zone

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Got another load of scrap going out today.  Probably about 3 more to go after this one.The torch is king when doing this kind of work, or any work requiring fast cuts on different thickness materials.  And it simply wins, hands down, when it comes to slicing thick sections.This is a two layer cut, which is a PITA any way you look at it.  Melt the first layer, blow it out of the way, then cut the second layer.  Pretty easy when using FIRE power To facilitate seperating two heavy pieces without lifting them or moving them, it's a good idea to make a cut, then pare back the cut on one side (slice some more offa it) to assure that the molten metal doesn't fuse again when the two pieces settle.  This is a piece of cake with a torch, just go back over the cut to remove more material, no preheat is required once the initial cut has been made.  Keep the cut going, and oxidization continues.I always laugh when I hear that a plasma will do just as good   In many cases the steel is hanging, and you don't want your hands or body anywhere near falling metal or bucking metal.  The handle on a plasma is a joke when it comes to safety factors.  You're only inches away from the metal.  Not my idea of a good way to spend a day.Don't get me wrong, I don't think plasma is junk, it just has its place, and the scrap pile ain't it.  My little 60amp unit is fine for precision cuts, but isn't made for this kind of work.In addition...........plasma has a limited reach.  I can preheat, then cut, just about any thickness by allowing the oxygen stream to reach a lot farther than the tip is rated for.  Try that with plasma   AND I DON'T HAVE TO WORK FROM TWO DIFFERENT SIDES OF THE PIECE TO BE CUT.  The above cut was made with a tip rated for 1", and the piece was about 2 1/2".  Simply heat it, let the O2 do it's work, and all done from one side where it's safe.Maybe one day there'll be a substitute for the old standby, but it hasn't happened yet "Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Not sure what your point is Sam? different process, and application. Try your gas torch on aluminum, and stainless, and see if you have a piece you can weld on? For junk yard stuff, can't beat a gas axe. They have overlap in certain things, but one is not generally right for every type of job. Not sure who says for scrap, plasma is a better? Can be sometimes, with a bigger machine. Unlikely you would would ever have one though. Like a 120/150 amp hand unit.Last edited by Brand X; 07-30-2012 at 12:59 PM.Esab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:Sam, what's the matter with you scrapping those nice front dually hubs and spindles, alot of guys would kill to get their hands on them for a dually conversion. LOL"Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DCMillermatic 251   Syncrowave 300   30A spoolgunLincoln MP210Hypertherm 45(2) LN 25(2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV(4) SA200   1 short hood    SA250    SAM 400
Reply:Originally Posted by Brand XNot sure what your point is Sam? different process, and application. Try your gas torch on aluminum, and stainless, and see if you have a piece you can weld on? For junk yard stuff, can't beat a gas axe. They have overlap in certain things, but one is not generally right for every type of job. Not sure who says for scrap, plasma is a better? Can be sometimes, with a bigger machine. Unlikely you would would ever have one though. Like a 120/150 amp hand unit.
Reply:Sam I know what your point is, the versatility of an O/A rig.  I once had to do some demo on a Mezzanine floor in the headquarters of a major bank in CT. Downtown location . Conrete was jackhammered away on a larg section of floor, problem was there were no lifting cranes or chainfalls or any other rigging. work had to be done at night after hours. Now the problem, they were adjacent the large plate glass windows, windows were forming the curtain wall and each one was maybe 15 Ft wide and 35 feet tall,solid glass the length of the bank.  The drop was about 12 feet. The beams were probably 20-24 inch tall at the web and likely 5/8 or 3/4 thick = HEAVY, maybe 14 feet long.  I was a 19 yr old kid out of the union hall , sent out as a" Torch Man".  Super took one look at me and you know he was nervous. Told him to let all the concrete stay on the floor below where it dropped , it was pretty small by the time they were done. Well I started cutting, super started sweating, cut a wedge out of the bottom of the beam, maybe about 1/2 way. Then I cut the top flange side to side, them I started playing with heat and that long cantilevered beam, heat/cut it let it sag some, heat it again, little more sag, till I eased one end, the end near the window right onto the floor, then just cut her loose, dropped neat as a pin and not to hard down on that layer of rubble. Super said " how old are you?" walked away and never bothered me againg till I cut out 11 more.  That was a fun job.  Made my head big as Texas.  LOL.   Couldn't have pulled that off with a plasma.Last edited by kolot; 07-30-2012 at 07:48 PM."Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DCMillermatic 251   Syncrowave 300   30A spoolgunLincoln MP210Hypertherm 45(2) LN 25(2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV(4) SA200   1 short hood    SA250    SAM 400
Reply:I agree, you can't beat a torch for metal like that, but they both have areas where they shine. I would imagine he cut the steel for a higher pay rate. I think the term is "prepared steel". That is steel cut in certain size chunks.
Reply:Probably should have explained why the iron has to be cut There are different grades of scrap, and different prices paid."Short Iron" is any kind of steel piece which will fit in a 3 foot square imaginary box."Long Iron" is pieces which are bigger than short iron Short iron is bringing 180/ton right now, and long iron is bringing around 150/ton.  Tin is also bringing 150/ton.  Tin is everything else around here...........car bodies, engines, cast iron appliances, etc.  This probably varies in other areas.  Scrap is a weird business, and the buyers generally make the rules, and they generally don't favor the guys who are selling the scrap If I wasn't short of money, and short of hay, I wouldn't be doing this.  I hate to see good stuff go.  You never know when you might have a use for some of this stuff."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Those cuts look too nice to go for scrap. Just kidding, nice work. When I cut shafts with housings like that, I get through the outside housing in a spot, then focus my cut on the round bar. It seems to go through the bar and the housing goes along with it. I do the same when cutting double frame trucks. I focus my cut on the back piece and the front goes along for the ride. I mostly use my 229 smith with a #4 tip and 100psi of oxy and 20-25psi on propane. Time is money when burning iron, and propane rules the scrap cutting world. Also on your engines, if they are "dirty", meaning they have everything still attached, you should get close to "short" iron price. If its clean auto cast, like rotors and drums and engine blocks, you should get alot better pricing.
Reply:Farmer Samm is right...good use of a torch. Of course if you look at the picture of his tractor....I'm willing to bet the loader arms and almost all of the frame pieces on the tractor were cut on a cnc plasma. Much prettier cuts.....but portability is sure necessary when doing demo and scrap work.Jim Colt
Reply:Jim, you'd lose the farm if you did bet on it.The loader was fabricated right out there in the yard maybe 12-15yrs ago.  All hand cut with a torch, and welded with an old AC Buzzbox.  I didn't even have an extension cord, all my welding was done next to the power pole I didn't have a computer in those days, so all I have is some old 35mm shots.The conditions were primitive, and the tools were minimal.  It's living proof that all you need is a torch and a welder to create almost anything you'd need.  It was probably my coolest build, and probably the last big thing I'll ever build.I remember owning a chop saw, and a small drill press at the time, but that was pretty much it.  I had to build the crane halfway thru the job in order to be able to lift the pieces of the loader as it got larger I have a lot of cool stuff now, but I started with almost nothing.  It's why I preach to the forum that you really don't need all the fancy crap to build some really neat stuff, as long as you have the skill and take the time to do it right."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Started that thing late in the Summer, worked on it thru the Winter, and completed it in time for next Spring.  It was the coolest thing in my life to lift the first bale onto someone's truck with it."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Very nice work, as usual! I assumed it was a commercially built unit.....I have been in many plants around the world that use cnc plasma to build implements and attachments....Deere, Cat, Kubota, Case, Woods, to name a few,. They all use cnc oxyfuel on the parts thicker than about an inch, cnc plasma on pretty much everything else.Jim Colt
Reply:Thanks Jim I'd have to agree that plasma is definitely the bee's knees when it comes to making parts.  I've only scratched the surface with my plasma, and I'm in love with it for what I use it for."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Seems the world is changing at lightning speed, BUT MY "SHOP" HASN'T CHANGED ONE IOTA!!!!!!!!!!!!I'M STILL WORKING OUT UNDER THE SKY.  ROFLMAO"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammSeems the world is changing at lightning speed, BUT MY "SHOP" HASN'T CHANGED ONE IOTA!!!!!!!!!!!!I'M STILL WORKING OUT UNDER THE SKY.  ROFLMAO
Reply:Sam,I haven't been keeping up...have you and Kelley had the opportunity to head on down south while singing, "The stars at night - are big and brightDeep in the heart of texas..."???Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammJim, you'd lose the farm if you did bet on it....The conditions were primitive, and the tools were minimal.  It's living proof that all you need is a torch and a welder to create almost anything you'd need.  It was probably my coolest build, and probably the last big thing I'll ever build.I remember owning a chop saw, and a small drill press at the time, but that was pretty much it.  I had to build the crane halfway thru the job in order to be able to lift the pieces of the loader as it got larger I have a lot of cool stuff now, but I started with almost nothing.  It's why I preach to the forum that you really don't need all the fancy crap to build some really neat stuff, as long as you have the skill and take the time to do it right.
Reply:Hey samm, oxy/propane works even better on rusty metal than acet. You should give it a whirl."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammThe torch is king when doing this kind of work, or any work requiring fast cuts on different thickness materials.  And it simply wins, hands down, when it comes to slicing thick sections.This is a two layer cut, which is a PITA any way you look at it.  Melt the first layer, blow it out of the way, then cut the second layer.  Pretty easy when using FIRE power ...Maybe one day there'll be a substitute for the old standby, but it hasn't happened yet