Stainless welding safety

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I'm curious to hear anyones stories of physical side effects from tig welding stainless steel. I worked in a dairy plant for 5 years and most of the welding I did was on stainless, out on the production floor, with only normal room ventilation. I work in a hospital now and am told by colleagues how dangerous the fumes are (much like welding galvanized.) No one at the dairy ever felt sick or seemed to effected by it at all. My present crew I work with are terrified of going near the stuff.  Seems overblown to me considering my past experiences; but there is lots of sites on the internet to support what they say. Should I be mad at my former employers for expectations that endangered our health or do I work with some overly paranoid guys?GeriSent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
Reply:No hazards that I am aware of....
Reply:Look up Hexavelent Chromium.  The dust from grinding and cutting chromium alloys is considered carcinogenic.  Welding with GTAW will not produce much metal fume.  Most boiler operations that deal with chromium alloys have everyone on the jobsite supplied with a breathable air supply.  The alternative is to do a risk assessment.  By the time that is done and thousands spent studying it is easier to just enact a blanket rule for everyone working on the shut down.
Reply:Geri,As you've probably already read on the web, stainless steel welding does produce hexavalent chromium ("Chromium VI"  or "hex-6") as a vapor byproduct in the smoke plume.  The movie "Erin Brokovich" was all about the hazards of hex chrome.   Unfortunately, it is not "equally" as dangerous as galvanized zink fumes, it's a whole lot worse.   It's also a cumulative toxin that's stored in the body, particularly the kidneys, liver and blood stream.  It is a serious carcinogen and does adversely affect DNA.  So when weldimg stainless, I don't think it's paranoia to being extra cautious with that stuff.   That being said however and I'm no doctor, but it's all about the exposure amounts you were subjected to.  In the metal plating industry for instance, we have employees indirectly exposed to hex-6 daily.  By indirectly, I mean they never make actual physical skin contact with the chemical, nor do they injest the stuff (like what was occurring with PG&E's residential customers in their drinking water and is now a famous case of hex-6 poisoning).  But, there is a heated and minimal liquid vapor that is given off and the technicians do work over those vapors.  They are regularly monitored with special equipment they wear on their protective clothing and are given voluntary blood tests to measure exposure amounts.   The last time we tested our guys,  their exposure limits came out at 50x's LESS than the permissible exposure limits (pel). For you, you can get a blood test to measure the toxicity level in your blood.  The real problems may or may not occur until many years later.  We've been voluntarily  testing our employees regularly for over 15 years now and so far, so good.  I believe that smoke vapors from welding stainless and actual direct exposure to the weld fumes is probably the greatest concentrated form of hex-6 exposure however.   With electroplating,  the liquid solution used is heated to only around 160*F and it  produces a barely noticeable vapor emitting from  the wet surface.  You also mentioned that you TIG welded the stainless.  I believe that fortunately for you, TIG produces the least amount of smoke compared to mig or stick welding of stainless.  If you're still welding stainless, I'd suggest you take more precautions.  Stand upwind; if feasible, use a portable fan to suck the plume away from you;  wear a pancake respirator designed to keep hex-6 fumes out of your lungs. Etc...  Finally, hold your breath in between small weld beads, even though that's not the most practical nor comfortable weld methods.Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:Horsehockey!...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterHorsehockey!...zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterHorsehockey!
Reply:Thank you all, especially Superarc. I was always careful about being upwind when welding in general and rarely need to at all now but I may look into getting myself tested. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
Reply:Think what you want.To me it's all a bunch of crap.......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Stainless is very reflective so you get extra arc rays.I say weld out side when you can. The solution to pollution is dilution.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterThink what you want.To me it's all a bunch of crap.......zap!
Reply:Hex chrome is ultra nasty stuff.  It's so bad in fact that it's one of only six chemicals listed in the EU's RoHS directive, that pretty much every industrialized nation has embraced and abides by.  Hex chrome is so bad that our employees are mandated to wear PPE chemical suits when handling it in a liquid state.  It causes ulcers on human skin with direct contact and dermatitis on some people with just minimal exposure.  What do you think it does to one's lungs, kidneys, organs etc... when inhaled from stainless steel welding smoke?  Perhaps nothing in small amounts initially.  But then again lead , mercury and asbestos exposure in small amounts never killed anybody during the first 20 or 30 years either.   In the end however, many victims have died far too young from  a slow and painful death, brought on from that stuff.Hex chrome-6 is also a byproduct from the welding arc  on stainless steel metals, in the form of a vapor plume (smoke).  It's in my warehouse in liquid form and I know the bad it causes.    We are phasing it out for trivalent chromium, which is far less toxic.Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:@ Zap, most of the times I agree with your posts but not in this case.As already explained welding fumes from stainless and creep resistant steels do not make you sick in the way galvanized does.So it is not something you can decide for yourself whether it is hazardous or not.Hexavalent chromium is a well documented health hazard and no matter what you and I think does not make a difference.That said tig welding produces the least amount of fumes from almost all the welding processes however it is not a coincidence that big companies provide air supplied helmets with ADFLO type respirators for people that weld stainless steels.Each one of these costs ca. 1000-1500 USD vs 30-50 USD for a passive hood.Do you think they would throw away thousands of dollars if there was no danger?
Reply:Hey guys I am not going to argue with any of ya about any of this BUT what's worse.......Smoking all frickin day..... or a little dust once in awhile?If you smoke and are worried about all this stop contradicting yourself.Think about that for awhile.I put up with second hand smoke all day every fuchin' day and that to me is my worse enemy....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I agree completely. But I quit smoking 8 years ago.As with most hazards it also depends on your exposure.If you smoke one-two cigarettes per week it probably will not do you much harm but if you weld stainless steels every day of your life for years without precautions it will likely cause you problems.Of course the opposite also applies.
Reply:Was recently on an inconel stick job where they had us wear personal monitors.  This was an 'in the field' operation and the use of exhaust fans was mostly impractical.  The hope was that basic P-100 half masks would be ok.  Turned out our numbers were borderline to bad.  Result was we used squirrel cage fans set up at a distance that would just keep the smoke moving and away from us.  Apparently(?) the fumes are not nearly as dangerous once they cool below certain temperatures.
Reply:Hex 6 chrome is basically only present about up to a foot or so from the weld then it falls back out of it's dangerous state. The shop I work in has worked with Osha to establish restricted areas where papr's or 3m 8515 respirators must be worn. It's for our own good. Area's where we Tig weld don't ever have high amounts but where we stick and mig lots of stainless and inconel always have amounts to justify being restricted.
Reply:We only tig stainless, and company policy is to wear P100 respirator masks under the hood. Problem solved.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Scary stuff. So, i stick weld all kinds of stainless, mainly outdoors, but not always. My question is what type of respirator should i be using?any other protections a home welder should take?Sent from my HUAWEI Y300-0151 using TapatalkUsing Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by dirtyfloatsScary stuff. So, i stick weld all kinds of stainless, mainly outdoors, but not always. My question is what type of respirator should i be using?any other protections a home welder should take?
Reply:Here's a bit more info we had on a thread about some pancake filters used for welding, if you're interested.   (Post#31....)http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...highlight=2297
Reply:A quick note with the 3M half face respirators - be sure to get the blue silicone mask like in the photo above (they come in sizes S, M, L) not the white harder rubber ones - they don't seal on your face anywhere near as well.
Reply:And don't drink the water or eat the food because there is bad stuff in everything.
Reply:Those 2297's are the shiznit, easy breathing, no bad smells. They'd even work on the second hand smoke!!SqWave 200Millermatic 190Airco 200 ACHypertherm PM45Boice-Crane Band SawVictor O/A
Reply:Cool, thanks. I'm gonna look into those filters. Different from the ones i have been using....Sent from my HUAWEI Y300-0151 using TapatalkUsing TapatalkIf I'm at work I have my 2297 filters on my respirator all the time. Where I work we work mostly with stainless steel. For the first year or so of being at my job I thought my welding days would be over faster than they started because I was having a lot of trouble dealing with the fumes. I was wheezing, my chest felt heavy most of the time, excessive mucus, etc, but now because of the respirator those symptoms have been drastically reduced. The one thing I'm still not sure about is how often to change my filters. I've been changing them about every 2 weeks while working 50-53 hour weeks right now.
Reply:I've personally been involved in an air quality study while welding and the only significant finding was that I was exposed to twice the PEL of HVC while plasma cutting stainless steel. I had to change our company SOP for welding to limit the stainless work to 2 hours a day and require fume extraction where it would not be required for other materials.A representative from Zurich came to my plant and put a battery operated pump on my belt and hooked it up to a filter attached to my collar. For the first 15 minutes of the test I cut some stainless with a plasma cutter and TIG welded it. After that, he changed the filters and the rest of the day I TIG welded carbon steel and aluminum and sticked some carbon. The only problem was with the filters used for the first 15 minutes with the stainless.
Reply:Originally Posted by DanRTIf I'm at work I have my 2297 filters on my respirator all the time. Where I work we work mostly with stainless steel. For the first year or so of being at my job I thought my welding days would be over faster than they started because I was having a lot of trouble dealing with the fumes. I was wheezing, my chest felt heavy most of the time, excessive mucus, etc, but now because of the respirator those symptoms have been drastically reduced. The one thing I'm still not sure about is how often to change my filters. I've been changing them about every 2 weeks while working 50-53 hour weeks right now.
Reply:Originally Posted by firebrick433m recommends 40 hours of use or 30 days if your not hitting 40 hours.  They also recommend changing them if you start to smell of taste anything while wearing them.
Reply:With stainless (as with a lot of things) it all depends on how much exposure you are getting at any one given time - if you are only ever getting minimal exposure to the fumes due to good ventilation, fume extraction etc then the half mask with those filters is appropriate.  If you are at any point not working with good ventilation and/or fume extraction and are getting exposed to a decent amount of fume then you need to move beyond the half mask and go to a powered air purifying respirator (PAPR) with particle and A gas filters.  If you are doing a lot of plasma cutting of stainless then you may need to move a step higher to a supplied air system.  For females all bets are off - with females being more susceptible to fume causing cancers they need to be looking at PAPR or supplied air anytime they are working with stainless.The last page of this brochure has a quick guide to respiratory protection for different materials when welding - http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawe...100%20Brochure
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcIt's the "2297" char coal type filters that performs better than the "pink" colored filters.
Reply:though I cant quote ANYTHING, from my past reads and explorations of the internet, stainless is about the worst of the "big three" metals typically welded today.stainless to hexavalent chromiumaluminum to aluminum oxide and aluminum itselfsteel to manganese (not so much anymore)from what I remember, zinc and zinc oxide aren't all that bad. it WILL make you sick and CAN kill you if you are exposed to a whole lot of it, but in small doses, the body is well equipped to deal with and safely dispose of zinc oxide without permanent effects.as someone said before, hex-chrome and ntm aluminum are with you till the end, which they can likely causebosses stuff:trailblazer 325maxstar 200my stuff:sa 200fronius transpocket 180100 amp Lincoln w/f97 f350 DITKevin
Reply:i work with heavy alloyed material on a regular basis, heavy wall Inconel, stainless's, chromoly, hastalloy pipe I don't strike an arc until I have either my speedglas fresh air supplied, or my boiler welding mask which is basically just a full face respirator with welding lens. In the confined areas that I usually am in or even out in the open in the plant, i don't even contemplate weather or not these fumes can hurt me.... same goes for any sort of major grinding work. The lungs you save are your own. I work for a company that is insanely over kill when it comes to the safety of its workers, ive seen the test results from the lab after they've done testing during a pipe welding job. the results would literally scare you into wearing the proper filters. Those who don't believe these alloyed materials can cause long term effects/health hazards are evidently nieve to actual industry, and don't have the knowledge of these materials or their potential for damage. I assure you i have lost friends whom were old school boilermakers from welding related health problems.- lost 2 friends to rotted lung due to inhaling argon from all the years of tig welding in the boiler, argon literally sat in the bottom of their lungs and killed the tissue, had the bottoms of their lungs snipped out, and later died from lung cancer.- lost 1 friend due to skin cancer on his chest, always wore a jean shirt in the boiler, never thought the un buttoned portion at the neck would do anything, low and behold ended up with skin cancer that later on attacked his throat and he suffocated to death in his final days.- lastly and the reason WHY i posted on this thread, one friend.... has not died, but has acquired parkinsins a year and a half after retirement, route cause you say? doctors deemed hexavalent chrome zorched his nervous system, not one single sign of any health hazard until 55 years old now he can barely hold onto a freaking cup.So to sum everything up, i have apprentices come through the shop on a yearly rotation and they don't step foot into any heavy alloy pipe welding job unless their wearing their respirators, and i their isn't any of this orange country choppers tack with no welding helmet, tig weld with no gloves or arm protection crap that goes on in my shop.... mind you those guys aren't welders anyway. Just my opinion but i think your an idiot if you think your invincible in this trade.
Reply:Originally Posted by Pressure_Welderi work with heavy alloyed material on a regular basis, heavy wall Inconel, stainless's, chromoly, hastalloy pipe I don't strike an arc until I have either my speedglas fresh air supplied, or my boiler welding mask which is basically just a full face respirator with welding lens. In the confined areas that I usually am in or even out in the open in the plant, i don't even contemplate weather or not these fumes can hurt me.... same goes for any sort of major grinding work. The lungs you save are your own. I work for a company that is insanely over kill when it comes to the safety of its workers, ive seen the test results from the lab after they've done testing during a pipe welding job. the results would literally scare you into wearing the proper filters. Those who don't believe these alloyed materials can cause long term effects/health hazards are evidently nieve to actual industry, and don't have the knowledge of these materials or their potential for damage. I assure you i have lost friends whom were old school boilermakers from welding related health problems.- lost 2 friends to rotted lung due to inhaling argon from all the years of tig welding in the boiler, argon literally sat in the bottom of their lungs and killed the tissue, had the bottoms of their lungs snipped out, and later died from lung cancer.- lost 1 friend due to skin cancer on his chest, always wore a jean shirt in the boiler, never thought the un buttoned portion at the neck would do anything, low and behold ended up with skin cancer that later on attacked his throat and he suffocated to death in his final days.- lastly and the reason WHY i posted on this thread, one friend.... has not died, but has acquired parkinsins a year and a half after retirement, route cause you say? doctors deemed hexavalent chrome zorched his nervous system, not one single sign of any health hazard until 55 years old now he can barely hold onto a freaking cup.So to sum everything up, i have apprentices come through the shop on a yearly rotation and they don't step foot into any heavy alloy pipe welding job unless their wearing their respirators, and i their isn't any of this orange country choppers tack with no welding helmet, tig weld with no gloves or arm protection crap that goes on in my shop.... mind you those guys aren't welders anyway. Just my opinion but i think your an idiot if you think your invincible in this trade.
Reply:Yep, I have to agree. Welding stainless, particularly with GTAW, is nothing like galvanized, but everyone here already knows that.Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:A lot of people are dying now from things that we are slowly learning about.  Firefighters are dying in their thousands from cancers caused by all of the toxic products from burning buildings.  Firefighters are dying from silicosis of the lungs caused by inhaling glass dust repeatedly from cutting and breaking windows at vehicle accidents.  Times change, new information becomes available, and if you don't follow the latest advice then a few people will remember you, and apart from that you just become another statistic for being pigheaded and too stupid to change.
Reply:Respirators of the caliber needed are not something you pick up a Harbor Freight.  You need to do you homework and know which cartridge is needed for the hazard you are trying to protect your self from.  I do not weld at work but we have different respirators for different hazards.  There is not one that covers everything.  Another big part of respirator use is fit testing.  We have to do this once a year for each respirator style we are qualified to wear.  There are procedures to follow every time you put your respirator on to insure proper protection.  3M and North are both good brands.  Do your homework so you are using the correct style of mask and filter for the hazard you are dealing with.If you are lucky enough to have an employer who will take the time to provide respiratory equipment and training you need to be paying attention.  You are responsible for your own safety.  Reparatory ailments from inhalation are preventable.DanManipulator Of Metal