Weld recommendations...

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I'm finishing up a trailer re-build, and need to weld on a couple D-rings.  The trailer is being used primarily to haul around a 3500lb Jeep YJ, and these D-rings are being used for the front binders.I am using weld on brackets for the D-rings, but the problem I have run into is I don't have enough room in the front to get an adequate weld.  The nozzle on my MIG is too large to fit into the area in front of the bracket, and I am not sure I can even fit a stick of 7018 to get a good puddle going.  Now, there's a slim chance I might could fit a flux core nozzle in there, but no guarantees.  Here are the pics:Now, I can butt the bracket up against the side of the rail, and then weld from there, but I wasn't sure if that would be acceptable.Any reason I couldn't butt up against the rail and weld in that position?
Reply:How bout welding the d-ring to a 1/4 inch flat plate and then welding the plate to the angle. That would give you a 2 sided weld on the d-ring and a 3 sided weld on the flat plate and angle. The plate hasn't got to be big. Maybe an 1" bigger than the d-ring on each side. Heck...a half inch would probably do. I only bring this point up because I wasn't sure you wanted to weld on the "ring hole" side. If you don't like that idea then I see no problem welding the d-ring butted up to the angle leg. I just figured on another option incase you wanted a bit more weld. Thanks for reading!
Reply:A lot of that steel angle on small trailers is pretty light weight, especially for using it for tie down points. As someone who has ripped off similar D rings simply by cranking down 2" ratchet straps, I'd be real careful using that angle to secure anything major. ( I bent the heck out of the angle and stopped when the steel started to tear. Welds to the D ring still held.)That side angle looks a lot stronger than the lighter steel strap used to lock in the wood deck members. If anything I'd want to weld to the heaviest steel possible for something like this. On our 7K trailer for equipment I skip the D rings and go to the main frame members for tie downs. I'll hook the chain thru the stake pockets or wrap it around the main frame and back to itself.If you aren't 100% confident in your ability to make code quality welds, every time, in every position, I'd strongly suggest you pass on critical welds like these..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Could you weld the D-rings to a plate as Jimbo mentioned then thru-bolt the plate to a frame member with Grade 8 bolts, sort of a "frame attachment" as DSW recommended?
Reply:Looks like you're trying to attach the strap that's holding the wood down. It's no where near strong enough for that large D-ring. Not to mention that it just looks to be tacked in place. Got to find something much better to attach to even if you have to make it.   Looks like you're trying to put those on the front of the trailer by the tongue. Which looks to be a lousy angle iron tongue at that. I hate angle iron tongues (comes from having to fix to many of them that end up bent). When you get right down to it you've not got anything in that area heavy enough to attach that big a D-ring to. You'd be better off just taking the strap straight to the tongue itself.   However if you're compelled to put a D-ring there then you're going to have to attach to the frame angle and not just the strap holding the wood down. Preferably with some reinforcing of the area in some manner.  Just off the top of my head I'd say a piece of 1/2" x 2 1/2" (or even 3" wide) strap say about 12" long for each ring. Weld the ring to the strap then weld the strap to the angle. Now comes the most important part. You need to drill a hole through the strap, wood, and then through the leg of the angle frame of the trailer on each side of the D-ring. Make some large heavy washers out of more of the strap (say at least 2 1/2" square washers) and then use the washers on the bottom with 1/2" grade 8 bolts and lock nuts to hold both D-rings down. That would at least give you the best chance of not ripping the D-rings off the next time you strap something down to them.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:how about welding a triangle in the front corner of the trailer on each side and weld the d ring that that top strap looks wimpyMiller Xmt 350Lincoln Ln-25Ahp 200xSmith Gas Mixer AR/HTig is my Kung FuThrowing down dimes and weaving aboutInstagram http://instagram.com/[email protected]
Reply:I would bevel the D ring cup and weld it to a piece of 1/4" or 3/8" flat bar that was about an inch wider than the cup on each side. I would weld that inside joint of the trailer together hot and with not much of a crown, so move fast, for the length of the 1/4" plate that you already built, and then take the new fixture and weld it on all 4 sides to the trailer. This is at a minimum for pictures you have posted,  price and scenario.. If those pieces of angle are 1/8" I would think you would be alright.. Post a picture of the front of the trailer and I bet we can come up with other options..I do see the tack weld something else pictured, hit it with a wire wheel and burn it, if you think it would be an issue.It wouldn't hurt to entertain other options.. On our 12k trailer, I simply welded them to the side of the trailer and I cross the straps.14' PowerMig 210 MP13'Burntables 5x10 CNC Table14' SAE300 HE on a 12' Ram 4500 60 CA 4x4. Custom bed/bottles/reels.87' SA250d, 78 SA200,11' Ranger 250 GXT AC/DCThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 8112' Lincoln Precision Tig 22508' LN25
Reply:Thanks for the comments, this is exactly why I posted the question here.I agree that c-channel is ultimately better material for a tongue, but at this point I am going to stick with the angle.  I've had to put a lot of work into the trailer to get it to the condition its in now, and there is still more work to do.  I started out with this tongue coupler, jack,  and safety chains:...and this gate, which had supports too far apart to properly support the tires:I reinforced the gate, added a new piece of expanded metal, and added a couple support legs.I also cut off the old 2" tongue coupler, converted to a 2 5/16" coupler, and added a new tongue jack and a much better set of safety chains.The trailer has been primed, and I'll be adding a final coat of paint once I finish my tie down points.  I do have a set of stake pockets I can weld on, but wanted to use the D- rings.  However, I do see the issues with welding to the flat plate used to hold the decking in place.I bought this trailer from a friend, and I have been rebuilding it to better suit my needs.  As I mentioned in the original post, its primary use will be to haul my Jeep from place to place, which weighs in under 3500 pounds.  I've used the trailer a couple of times before the rebuild to haul my Land Rover, which weighs 4700 lbs, and the trailer worked great.  Based on how the trailer is built, how would you recommend I proceed?
Reply:As I stated before I'd bolt through if you want the D-rings in the bed like shown. As for the tongue I'd take a piece of 2" or 2 1/2" angle and box the tongue angle about 2' in front and behind where the bed stops on it. Makes it much stronger and gives a place to run wires.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:I had a similar problem on a smaller trailer for an ATV. Here is what I did: 1. I drilled through the angle that is flat on the deck of the trailer through to the frame of the trailer.2. I attached my permanent straps (not D-Ring) through both pieces of metal with the deck wood sandwiched between and used Grade 8 hardware/washers. This looks doable from you pics.  You have two pieces of rebar attachments on either side in front of the axles/tires.  I would remove these.  You can then weld the D-ring to a stout piece of flat bar, then weld it to the top angle piece on the deck, but I would go a step further. I would drill through to the frame member where it becomes parallel with the trailer and bolt it from the underside.  This way you have the top piece of angle fully welded and grade 8 fasteners all the way through to the frame.  The only drawback is that the positioning for the D-Rings may be bad.  If the location is bad, you should be able to add some bracing underneath the deck to do this type of mount.  Also, nice work on the trailer!Last edited by bluduk15; 01-30-2013 at 10:57 AM.
Reply:Were this my trailer, I'd do as Bluduk discribed above. welded and bolted because of the construction of the trailer. that being said, I asked a question very close to this in my trailer build thread. As my trailer is a different construction, the solution was different, but it might be useful to someone else. Here's a link to the thread. you want to go from post #42 on.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=59022&page=2There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Thanks for the suggestions, looks like I have a little more head-scratching to do before I begin welding the D-rings in place.
Reply:Weld them on the outside of the front of the frame.  Like right above where the tounge and the frame cross.  The ring will flip up to be over the angle iron you welded it to and you can hook your tie downs up.  Hard to explain, but youd have to make a horizontal weld and an overhead fillet basically