Help selecting a welder/advice for all sorts of automotive fabrication

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I'm looking for my first welder, and have decided on a TIG welder, I've only ever used a MIG before and only a few times from a friends. After doing research it all points to TIG being better.I want to be able eventually build Turbo Manifolds, Roll Cages, aluminum intake manifold, Exhaust systems and general automotive fabrication.So I've found a Lincoln Welder in my budget but it seems a bit cheap. It's a Lincoln PowerCRAFT Inverter TIG 200 AC/DC welder, they're available in New Zealand for $1800ish ($1500usd ish) which seems a bit cheap compared to all their other welders (see link below for more information).https://www.nationalwelding.com.au/c...1375779422.pdfWill this welder do everything I need it to do? What's the reason why it's much cheaper than other Lincoln Welders?I'll be using it as a weekend thing but want something that will last once I get my skills up, as welders arn't cheap.Is there something else I should look at? Do I need a foot pedal? water cooling features?
Reply:this is crazy. the items you mentioned you want to build have so much design/engineering involved with them that the task of actually fabricating them pales by comparison. You need to enroll in a community college course and play with a TIG machine to realize just how far you have to go. You might not even want to spend the $ to buy one after you try and weld with one for the first time. Not a skater but you are stressing over which color grip tape so you can be ready to session with Tony Hawk ... someday.Not a cyclist but you are stressing over which bibs to wear for the TDF ... someday.Not a drummer but you are stressing over which sticks to use for battling travis barker ... someday.Last edited by Jimmy_pop; 07-22-2014 at 10:18 AM.
Reply:foot pedal?  only if you want to reap one of the main benefits of tigwater cooling?  only if you hate having to put the torch down after a few minutes of welding because it's smoking hot.For $1500, it's not bad at all.  Many AC/DC tigs in the same category sell for around the same kind of money.  Thermal Arc/Tweco/Longevity/etc all have similar features for around the same price tag here in the US.That welder will allow you to EVENTUALLY build all that stuff you want to do, lol.  Just remember those kinds of things take years and years to get right.  Especially the intake manifold stuff.  Depending on how thinck your flanges end up being, it might not have enough juice to melt aluminum right from the get-go.  Most places that build aluminum intake manifolds likely have a more powerful machine just because of aluminum's thermal conductivity. 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:Be careful you don't buy one that you will never be able to figure out. Especially if you are going to self learn. Look at the Miller Diversion 180, and if you have the means, Miller Syncrowave210. They both have intuitive controls, and the parameters are preprogrammed and synergic. So if you set it to 3 mm alum, the machine pulls up the best parameters for that metal and thickness. Tig is tough enough. Getting off the launch pad is the toughest part.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Originally Posted by drewpohI'm looking for my first welder, and have decided on a TIG welder, I've only ever used a MIG before and only a few times from a friends. After doing research it all points to TIG being better.I want to be able eventually build Turbo Manifolds, Roll Cages, aluminum intake manifold, Exhaust systems and general automotive fabrication.So I've found a Lincoln Welder in my budget but it seems a bit cheap. It's a Lincoln PowerCRAFT Inverter TIG 200 AC/DC welder, they're available in New Zealand for $1800ish ($1500usd ish) which seems a bit cheap compared to all their other welders (see link below for more information).https://www.nationalwelding.com.au/c...1375779422.pdfWill this welder do everything I need it to do? What's the reason why it's much cheaper than other Lincoln Welders?I'll be using it as a weekend thing but want something that will last once I get my skills up, as welders arn't cheap.Is there something else I should look at? Do I need a foot pedal? water cooling features?
Reply:Originally Posted by Jimmy_popNot a drummer but you are stressing over which sticks to use for battling travis barker ... someday.
Reply:Originally Posted by Jimmy_popthis is crazy. the items you mentioned you want to build have so much design/engineering involved with them that the task of actually fabricating them pales by comparison. You need to enroll in a community college course and play with a TIG machine to realize just how far you have to go. You might not even want to spend the $ to buy one after you try and weld with one for the first time. Not a skater but you are stressing over which color grip tape so you can be ready to session with Tony Hawk ... someday.Not a cyclist but you are stressing over which bibs to wear for the TDF ... someday.Not a drummer but you are stressing over which sticks to use for battling travis barker ... someday.
Reply:Well I figured I can always sell it if I don't need it. I figured I'd be playing with cars for the rest of my life so TIG welding will be an essential skill I'll need to learn. There's never been anything I couldn't learn with enough books, practice, hitting the forums and YouTube watching (It's worked well for me so far in life haha)A community college course is about $5k for a beginners 8 week course. I figured I could just spend that money on a welder and spend hours on end practicing with a bunch of books and a million YouTube videos, I'm sure there's enough resource out there in this day and age to teach myself, once I get better on a welder I'll go do some proper training.I'm pretty sure I'll enjoy it, I've always enjoyed using my hand to make stuff, and if it's something for my car then I'll most certainly enjoy it.Miller machines are like 3 or 4 times the price here, and then we don't get many other non-Chinese brands here.Thanks for all the feedback. I'll do some more research into wheather I need a foot pedal and water cooled features for the things I wanted to build in the near future or so.
Reply:continuing college courses are about $150 and give you access to pretty good equipment to piddle with. your classmates will likely be 50 year old women welding spoons together but it is cheap.
Reply:Originally Posted by drewpohWell I figured I can always sell it if I don't need it. I figured I'd be playing with cars for the rest of my life so TIG welding will be an essential skill I'll need to learn. There's never been anything I couldn't learn with enough books, practice, hitting the forums and YouTube watching (It's worked well for me so far in life haha)A community college course is about $5k for a beginners 8 week course. I figured I could just spend that money on a welder and spend hours on end practicing with a bunch of books and a million YouTube videos, I'm sure there's enough resource out there in this day and age to teach myself, once I get better on a welder I'll go do some proper training.I'm pretty sure I'll enjoy it, I've always enjoyed using my hand to make stuff, and if it's something for my car then I'll most certainly enjoy it.Miller machines are like 3 or 4 times the price here, and then we don't get many other non-Chinese brands here.Thanks for all the feedback. I'll do some more research into wheather I need a foot pedal and water cooled features for the things I wanted to build in the near future or so.
Reply:If you can find a school, your best money spent would be professional lessons.  That goes for most things in life that involve skill.  Learn how first, then buy the tools.  You'll be better equipped/able to evaluate the tools and you make wiser decisions about what you need.  The tough part is evaluating the teacher before you spend your money - again ask around.Recommend you buy  a quality welder _USED_.  If you ever decide to upgrade or drop the hobby you will probably be able to sell the welder for the same price you paid.The welder in the .pdf file looks like a Chinese built TIG machine rebranded by Lincoln.  I don't think it's even available in the States.  At least in the states the re-sale value would be low - significantly less than what you paid.  Peak at Ebay and see what completed auctions are getting.As for what you need. 200+ amps TIG (or for that matter MIG) is the right ballpark.If you exclude aluminum, a decent DC TIG is all you need.  High frequency start, foot pedal, water cooling (a smaller torch to fit into tighter places).You said aluminum.  And that changes a lot. - squarewave TIG (some older models are sine wave - no balance control).  Easier to control the power and the arc.   Miller Syncrowaves are such a machine. - very nice to have - frequency control - makes it much easier to control the arc.  Just a note, Miller Diversion is actually a 120Hz TIG machine - very nice for light aluminum work.  If budget is an issue...If you can put off your aluminum manifold fabrication for a while, consider getting a cheaper TIG for now.  You have lots to learn and with some careful purchasing you can basically save up.As for brands, in the states: Miller, Lincoln, Thermal Arc, Esab, Hobart, HTP - probably roughly in that order on resale value.  It is my understanding that HTP and Esab are European made (where in Europe I'm not sure).   I've also heard about brands like Fronius but never seen a machine in person.  They seem expensive, industrial grade.  I would talk to your local welding supply store and see what they carry in stock.  Then compare the sale price to what people are asking (and getting) for used ones.Keep in mind that when you are starting out you will spend a significant amount of money on supplies.  Shielding gas, filler, scrap materials, hood, gloves, leathers etc. etc.  It adds up fast.One last thing.  Power.  While many countries have 220V as standard, its the current part that your average outlet might be lacking.  Keep an eye on the power requirement and budget to upgrade the outlet in the garage if needed.  In the states, most places require a license to do the work legally (locally they offer a homeowner's license for work on the home side of a fuse box).As for the neigh sayers.  This is a hobby - and hobby isn't always about brains.  Buying a $4000 welder to do a $1000 roll cage makes perfect sense....  I still say lessons first, then tool.  You'll be happier!  And you'll make better use of that $4000 welder.Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX
Reply:Re: Con_fused9I live in New Zealand so the range are very limited here. As for Welding Machines we really only get Lincolns and Miller for top grade industrial stuff which are very expensive about double that of the states due to us being a small country and so far away from anyone. There are quite a few chinese options which have some decent reviews but not many and also haven't been around for long. I looked at shipping one over but again after shipping costs and import duties its beefs up the price quite a lot. There's limited beginners welding classes here, and the cheap (2 weekend class) ones I've known people to go to and have said they don't teach you much and is very much the basics and cost half way to a welder. the more expensive welding ones are about $5k (for a 8 week part time course). The maths just doesn't add up to me to go to course, when I could spend $3k on a setup and hours on end playing around then going to study if I feel it's the right thing.As for buying a used welder, not much comes up here, I've been looking on Trademe (NZ's version of Ebay) for months and nothing much has come up worth buying 2nd hand. This again is probably due to the size of our country.Thanks for the input will help me decide what to do.--Re:MinnesotaDave100 hours is a non issue, I'll burn through that, getting excited. As for doing the more complicated stuff, I'm really good at hamming through books, then lots of practice. Before I do a proper roll cage I plan on being certified (when the time comes). --Re: Jimmy_PopI presume when you say continue college course is like after (our version of high school (where 13-18 year olds go)),  In New Zealand they don't teach you to weld in high school only at tertiary education places (universities), which cost lots of money.