what mill/drill makes $ense for newbie?

admin

I've been thinking about owning a mill/drill machine for occasional use. firstly, does any non-machinist-by-trade own one, and  how useful is it to your typical workshop environment? secondly, how much does one have to spend to get more than a toy? thirdly, does a combo unit like a smithy mill/lathe make sense?   (see how easily an idea can get out of hand ?)
Reply:I'm not personally able to answer the question, and I'm sure someone will come along and do so at some point soon.In the mean time, 2 more resources for your research:Machinetools.com (with a button at the top of this page) would be a great place to browse/price-shop for new and/or used equipment.Also, our sister forum, Practicalmachinist.com, has members who do nothing but machining. I know you'll find some strong opinions there.(Just make sure to come back here too!)Good luck.Bob RosenbaumFormer PublisherPenton's WELDING Magazine
Reply:thanx, Bob
Reply:Originally Posted by H Tee LI've been thinking about owning a mill/drill machine for occasional use.
Reply:Originally Posted by H Tee LI've been thinking about owning a mill/drill machine for occasional use. firstly, does any non-machinist-by-trade own one, and  how useful is it to your typical workshop environment? secondly, how much does one have to spend to get more than a toy? thirdly, does a combo unit like a smithy mill/lathe make sense?   (see how easily an idea can get out of hand ?)
Reply:I'm definately no machinist by trade, in fact, I'm pretty much bad at anything but the most basic machine operations. BUT, the smithy I use comes in handy all the time. However, it is no replacement for a drill press. I do have a very small drill press that has proven to be one of my most valuble tools.If I was buying tools, I'd opt for a slightly larger lathe and a good size drill press rather than a mill/lathe combo. The drill press would definately come first. For a lot of the basic operations you need a mill for you can conceivably get a compound table for the drill press.For every 20 things I turn on a lathe, I mill one thing. And for every 20 things I use my puny drill press for, I turn one on the lathe.
Reply:I have this Mill Drillhttp://www.wttool.com/p/3006-0007  Seemed like the best value for the money.  The square columns are nice but for that kind of money you might as well spend a little more and get a import knee mill.  I would recommend getting a seperate lathe and mill if you have the space.DennisThermal Arc 185-TSWMillermatic Challenger 172VictorO/AAtlas Craftsman 12 by 24 LatheEsab PCM-875Wholesalem Tool Mill-Drill
Reply:I've had the Harbor Freight Mill Drill for about ten years. It's a great drill press and an OK Hobby milling machine. They take Bridgeport R-8 tapers and for general milling work where great accuracy is not necessary they are OK. I paid $795.00 on sale. If you want real accuracy, though, I would recommend a full size Bridgeport (or clone) milling machine with a DRO (digital read out) unit. Most mill drills available on the low end are not stiff enough to hold tight settings. That said, even if I were to get a Bridgeport, I would still keep the old HF unit  because it's rather versatile. I simply didn't want to spend $3K on a milling machine and also, the space that I have for such a machine is limited.Enco has higher level Mill Drills and also Knee Mills that are very good but you are approaching the price of a good used Bridgeport. Good luck.
Reply:I wonder if you've ever used a mill before?  If you haven't, I'd recommend seeking out an entry level machining course at a community college or some such.  You'll learn the basics of machining and gain some experience with a mill such that you'll be able to understand what to like and what not to like.Admittedly, I've never used any of the mill/drill combos and I never would, based on the ones that I've looked at.  I just couldn't see how they'd hold up to any kind of real milling task.  I'm no snob when it comes to cheap tools and don't have any compunctions using cheap import lathes or any of the full-size knee mills, but I just don't see the mill/drill (or lathe/mill) combos working out well.  If you have the space and the inclination, I'd look to get an old Bridgeport or one of its many clones along with a DRO.  The DRO is expensive, but any kind of used, low-price knee mill is going to have tolerance issues that a DRO will completely mitigate.  The benefit to the Bridgeport and clones is that there is a wide variety of stuff available for a CNC conversion.  Anyone that spends significant amounts of time doing manual machining on a mill will inevitably want to have CNC capabilities.  I love doing manual machining on a lathe, but on a mill, it just becomes tedious.As with any kind of machine tools, particularly mills, the cost of the tooling usually dwarfs the cost of the machine.  If you can score an old Bridgeport for a couple of grand, I can easily see investing $5-10k in tooling over the course of a couple years.My advice is based on the assumption that you want to do a fair amount of machining with reasonable precision.  If you don't really intend to do that much, then I don't see a risk in buying a mill/drill and a few end mills.  If it becomes too limiting, you can usually sell those sorts of things and a small loss.-Heath
Reply:If you go with a mill-drill be sure to get one with an R8 taper.  That way your tooling should move over if you ever step up to a full vertical mill.  There are some used machines that have a ******* taper IE Brown and Sharp.  I would stay away from them.DennisThermal Arc 185-TSWMillermatic Challenger 172VictorO/AAtlas Craftsman 12 by 24 LatheEsab PCM-875Wholesalem Tool Mill-Drill
Reply:Originally Posted by halbrittI wonder if you've ever used a mill before?  If you haven't, I'd recommend seeking out an entry level machining course at a community college or some such.  You'll learn the basics of machining and gain some experience with a mill such that you'll be able to understand what to like and what not to like.Admittedly, I've never used any of the mill/drill combos and I never would, based on the ones that I've looked at.  I just couldn't see how they'd hold up to any kind of real milling task.  I'm no snob when it comes to cheap tools and don't have any compunctions using cheap import lathes or any of the full-size knee mills, but I just don't see the mill/drill (or lathe/mill) combos working out well.  If you have the space and the inclination, I'd look to get an old Bridgeport or one of its many clones along with a DRO.  The DRO is expensive, but any kind of used, low-price knee mill is going to have tolerance issues that a DRO will completely mitigate.  The benefit to the Bridgeport and clones is that there is a wide variety of stuff available for a CNC conversion.  Anyone that spends significant amounts of time doing manual machining on a mill will inevitably want to have CNC capabilities.  I love doing manual machining on a lathe, but on a mill, it just becomes tedious.As with any kind of machine tools, particularly mills, the cost of the tooling usually dwarfs the cost of the machine.  If you can score an old Bridgeport for a couple of grand, I can easily see investing $5-10k in tooling over the course of a couple years.My advice is based on the assumption that you want to do a fair amount of machining with reasonable precision.  If you don't really intend to do that much, then I don't see a risk in buying a mill/drill and a few end mills.  If it becomes too limiting, you can usually sell those sorts of things and a small loss.
Reply:Originally Posted by gnm109You have lots of good advice and I agree with most of what you say. But of course, folks who look an Mill Drills are not looking for the same results that someone with a DRO/CNC driven Bridgeport might expect. As with all things, you get what you pay for.
Reply:Originally Posted by halbrittTrue, but some good things can be had cheaply.  One could luck out on a deal on a Bridgeport and cobble together a DRO for a few grand or less.  It would depend on good fortune.I did admit to not having used one, nor would I consider purchasing one because it's obvious that it wouldn't meet my needs.  I couldn't really speak to how useful they are. I've used import lathes with a lot of success and was able to achieve tolerances atleast as good as some other US-made lathes that I've used (that were old and had lots of lash).  For me, a 7x12 mini-lathe would be extraordinarily useful as would just about any larger lathe.  I doubt I would make any use of a mill/drill combo.  However, I think that goes back to my preference for manual machining.  On a lathe, it's fun, even on a crappy lathe.  Manual machining on a mill is pretty annoying even if it's a good mill.  I couldn't imagine how annoying it'd be on something that's barely a mill.  To good tolerances on a lathe (<.001") one pretty much needs something fairly new and well-maintained or a good toolroom lathe.  Neither approaches anything reasonable in terms of cost.I'm also pretty picky about drill presses.  I'd prefer to try and score a very old and very heavy drill press rather than just about anything that's been made in my lifetime.
Reply:Nope.  I've got my heart set on a Bridgeport or a Fadal, or maybe even a Van Norman.-Heath
Reply:Well if anybody is in Colorado I've got a Jet drill/mill I don't want to move....you pick it up and hand me $600.00 and it's yours.....this offer good until 5/31/06....