Pipe Welding Proceess????

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Hey Guys,I just went to look at a Job someone called me about,  They need 210' of Schedule 40 Galvanized Pipe replaced.  This is for a Ski Mountain Water supply line.   I have done Pipe Jobs before using SMAW, 6011 Root and 7018 Cap.   I was wondering if I could use my Miller Xtreme 12VS with a 0.45 Flux-Core Wire for this Job?  Im gonna be Welding in a Trench and it would be alot easier to hold a MIG Gun Rather than A Stinger with a Electrode in Tight Places.   I was told the Pipe pumping the Water up the Mountain (I will Be Replacing) is under 300PSI.......  Any help, Suggestions or advice is greatly appreciated...Thanks Don.Some Blue , Some Red & Some GreyProverbs 16:2-3.2 "All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord. 3 Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans."
Reply:Originally Posted by DieselDon16Hey Guys,I just went to look at a Job someone called me about,  They need 210' of Schedule 40 Galvanized Pipe replaced.  This is for a Ski Mountain Water supply line.   I have done Pipe Jobs before using SMAW, 6011 Root and 7018 Cap.   I was wondering if I could use my Miller Xtreme 12VS with a 0.45 Flux-Core Wire for this Job?  Im gonna be Welding in a Trench and it would be alot easier to hold a MIG Gun Rather than A Stinger with a Electrode in Tight Places.   I was told the Pipe pumping the Water up the Mountain (I will Be Replacing) is under 300PSI.......  Any help, Suggestions or advice is greatly appreciated...Thanks Don.
Reply:Thanks,   I will be wearing a respirator,  I'll Grind off the galvanization off the joints.  I was gonna use Shielding Gas.The Ski Mountain is a Little Local Place in Pike County PA,  Its like 5 miles from my house (Which is nice for a change)Will the Flux-Core be strong enough under 300PSI?   I know the SMAW process will work fine, but the accesablilty is my only concern?Some Blue , Some Red & Some GreyProverbs 16:2-3.2 "All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord. 3 Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans."
Reply:Originally Posted by DieselDon16Thanks,   I will be wearing a respirator,  I'll Grind off the galvanization off the joints.  I was gonna use Shielding Gas.The Ski Mountain is a Little Local Place in Pike County PA,  Its like 5 miles from my house (Which is nice for a change)Will the Flux-Core be strong enough under 300PSI?   I know the SMAW process will work fine, but the accesablilty is my only concern?
Reply:Oh yeah... Where abouts are you ??Some Blue , Some Red & Some GreyProverbs 16:2-3.2 "All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord. 3 Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans."
Reply:Originally Posted by DieselDon16Oh yeah... Where abouts are you ??
Reply:Ohhh Ok....  I get up there every now and then.  I go up to Tunkhannock and Towanda every now and then,  I was just up in Scranton at that D'Naples (Or something) JunkyardSome Blue , Some Red & Some GreyProverbs 16:2-3.2 "All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord. 3 Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans."
Reply:Originally Posted by DieselDon16Ohhh Ok....  I get up there every now and then.  I go up to Tunkhannock and Towanda every now and then,  I was just up in Scranton at that D'Naples (Or something) Junkyard
Reply:Do you weld for a profession Don, or a side job??
Reply:Im a Self Employed Welder,  My Background is in Structural Welding.....  But lately I have been doing a ton of Ornamental Rails, gates and Stair cases.....  It bores me.  So this Pipe Job is a great break from all that.   Im only 22 but Im getting more and more equipted with tools and machines....Some Blue , Some Red & Some GreyProverbs 16:2-3.2 "All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord. 3 Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans."
Reply:Originally Posted by DieselDon16Im a Self Employed Welder,  My Background is in Structural Welding.....  But lately I have been doing a ton of Ornamental Rails, gates and Stair cases.....  It bores me.  So this Pipe Job is a great break from all that.   Im only 22 but Im getting more and more equipted with tools and machines....
Reply:Thanks Alot,  I appreciate your help.Some Blue , Some Red & Some GreyProverbs 16:2-3.2 "All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord. 3 Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans."
Reply:Originally Posted by DieselDon16Thanks Alot,  I appreciate your help.
Reply:I'd think about using Victaulic rather than welding.Once you weld the galvanized the protective coating will be burned off and it will rust out quickly.http://www.victaulic.com/Lincoln SA200's... at least 15 - 20. They come and go. Growing partial to the "Short Hoods" in my old age. Last count on Short Hoods was 13 in possession.
Reply:Vic is OK for galvenized. They make quick-vics now, just slap butter on joints butt-up joint and crank the impact...Youd need a Vic-Groover, not that cheap, a go, no-go gauge and a ridgid 300 to run it.Drink milk if your going to weld. Have you considered socket fittings? Just wire-wheel, 7018 and roll on some protective paint.Lincoln Power MIG 210 MP ( boat anchor )Lincoln Weld-Pac 100 HDHobart IronMan 230Cutmaster 42Jackson NexGenSumner Ultra ClampsDWM120
Reply:Originally Posted by MadMax31Vic is OK for galvenized. They make quick-vics now, just slap butter on joints butt-up joint and crank the impact...Youd need a Vic-Groover, not that cheap, a go, no-go gauge and a ridgid 300 to run it.Drink milk if your going to weld. Have you considered socket fittings? Just wire-wheel, 7018 and roll on some protective paint.
Reply:What size ???  Or did I miss that ??
Reply:Don, In my experience the dual shield likes to pinhole when welding other than clean steel. Stick seems to be more forgiving. You say that you'll be grinding, but whether you can get it clean enough for flux core is anybody's guess.
Reply:you say that this line is under 300 psi? may just be me? but anything under any pressure in our power plant requires a specific high pressure welding ticket and procedure to weld that particular alloy. Myself and the other welder hold 5 different tickets each to weld the various alloys and different thickness's "up to 3" thick" or on the drum which is 8" thick. I find it odd how someone like yourself with just structural and hand rail experience in his credentials would be able to tackle a job such as this. 300 psi may not sound like alot, but any consealed pressure can have deadly effects, even down to 2 or 3 psi! I dont mean to be blunt, but you could be into some serious liability issues if a joint fails. EVEN if this is burried it has to come out at some point to connect to a valve of some sort id imagine. The fact that you have to ask weather its ok to use a mig setup on a pressure joint like this is concerning and shows lack of experience. Should be a fully cleaned joint, this pipe i presume is hot dipped, so you would have to take a torch to the weld joint and burn off around 4" either side of it, then buff inside and out, create a 37.5* bevel, adequate land, 6010 root, 7018 fill/cap. Id imagine a majority would be in the 5G position until you start running up the mountain? then you would get into a position relatively close to 6G. So as said you should have a 6G pressure welding ticket.Last edited by Pressure_Welder; 09-27-2012 at 11:47 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by welds4dDon, In my experience the dual shield likes to pinhole when welding other than clean steel. Stick seems to be more forgiving. You say that you'll be grinding, but whether you can get it clean enough for flux core is anybody's guess.
Reply:Originally Posted by DieselDon16Thanks for the advice,  I'm gonna run SMAW ,   I am probably gonna stick with the classics 6011 & 7018 .   But I was looking into Lincoln Electric makes a Specific pipe electrode,  LHD ,   works especially well down hill.   I'm gonna buy a box and see how they work.
Reply:Originally Posted by ShortbusWelderI like the excalibur rods from lincoln, used them all the time.. I remember last year I was messing with some downhill 18 rods, they were nice. When I was running them, I was doing a side to side motion.  Becareful running downhill. The reason I say this, the majority of pipe welding is uphill by code.  The Pipeliners are the only ones I know(Well Believe.) that run all their rods downhill, they are all 10 rods..
Reply:Originally Posted by DieselDon16This is true.  I have always in the past ran uphill.  I was watching Pipeliner videos on youtube and one #798 Welder was explaining that they ran downhill,  so I was just curious,  I was messing around in the shop with 6011 running downhill,  it looks good, no undercut or anything.  My buddy is a CWI I might bring this topic up to him.
Reply:lol yet again... these pipeliners that use this rod burn pounds of it in a day and have tickets that allow them to weld pressurized pipe according to there LEGAL procedure that has been tested by engineers/technicians in a shop, tensile tests, yield strength tests, rockwell, birnell, elogation percentages, heat treatment requirements for stress relieving if nessecary. Do you have a pressure welding ticket dieseldon... I am not trying to single you out here but your asking questions on a welding forum that would be common sense to a ticketed high pressure welder. ASME codes are in place for a reason and thats to keep people alive! its a strict book of codes and regualtions for ticketed welders to abide by, because they've done all the nessecary testing on varying alloys... It'd be no different than me coming on this forum to ask if its ok to use flux core wire for a root on our superheat tubes that our 2 1/4 chromoly.
Reply:Not the prettiest but easy to do and 5x faster than SMAW...3"  sch 40, 6010 root.30v-220amp/ws, .045 lincoln nr211, 75/25 for my gasIf you are going to use galvanized pipe, you are completely voiding its propose by welding it. 100% waste of Zinc. The coating provides corrosion resistance until you weld on it, then the weld, and entire heat affected zone are just plain cheap steel. You would be ahead to just use regular steel, because galvanized will have no chance to provide corrosion resistance what so ever, then you dont have to worry about wasting all your time grinding it off. You have a couple of choices:Use couplings on the Galvanized (should be strong enough, likely stronger than weld)Get thick steel pipe, weld it. Get stainless, sell it as the best long term solution, 50 year+, then you get to TIGThis is serious, you have a commercial customer you are about to screw over. Lincoln's downhill low-hy pipe rods are not made for this junk. They require specialized knowledge and a defined skill, they are also expensive. They are made for 6''+ diameter (and you better be damned impressive to go below 12'') pipe, and require you to switch from pull to push at specific locations on a pipe, as well mid-bead amperage changes (something a pipeliner has his helper do).Constant Current Weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by DavidbrownIf you are going to use galvanized pipe, you are completely voiding its propose by welding it. 100% waste of Zinc. The coating provides corrosion resistance until you weld on it, then the weld, and entire heat affected zone are just plain cheap steel. You would be ahead to just use regular steel, because galvanized will have no chance to provide corrosion resistance what so ever, then you dont have to worry about wasting all your time grinding it off. You have a couple of choices:Use couplings on the Galvanized (should be strong enough, likely stronger than weld)Get thick steel pipe, weld it. Get stainless, sell it as the best long term solution, 50 year+, then you get to TIGThis is serious, you have a commercial customer you are about to screw over. Lincoln's downhill low-hy pipe rods are not made for this junk. They require specialized knowledge and a defined skill, they are also expensive. They are made for 6''+ diameter (and you better be damned impressive to go below 12'') pipe, and require you to switch from pull to push at specific locations on a pipe, as well mid-bead amperage changes (something a pipeliner has his helper do).
Reply:funny how noone seems to care or realize YOU NEED A PRESSURE TICKET to legally do this job.
Reply:Bloody hell, he is doing a Damn water line for a ski place. Grind the galvanized off, 6010 root and hot 7018 out. If your in a hurry you can do the whole job with 211 or 21B.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:lol i love self proclaimed pipe welders.... do what you want, id suggest oxy/acetylyne brazing with naval brass for the root as your dealing with water, and top it off with a stainless 347 mig cap. Good luck and hope it dosent fail injuring someone. A welding inspector or safety officer would have a hay day with you so id suggest not getting caught if you ARENT ticketed, or atleast have a big checque book.Last edited by Pressure_Welder; 10-01-2012 at 11:04 PM.
Reply:I do steam lines, water lines, process piping, etc..... This thread has gotten out of hand.  I work to procedures and codes everyday. This is a water line for a ski place, not a HP steam line. Do I want someone halfassing an acid line in my plant, no I don't, but this is not that.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Originally Posted by TozziWeldingI do steam lines, water lines, process piping, etc..... This thread has gotten out of hand.  I work to procedures and codes everyday. This is a water line for a ski place, not a HP steam line. Do I want someone halfassing an acid line in my plant, no I don't, but this is not that.
Reply:Iam not here to try and profess that i am better than anyone else, but i have been welding high pressure for 35 years in our coal fired steam plant so i have been around the block and can just about garuntee ive done more super critical joints than most here. We have lines upto 5000PSI. I get the privledge of having two, to three joints a week that require xray. I know the pressure piping/vessel codes/standards. I am sorry i dont care who you are, ANYTHING that is under ANY sort of pressure requires a "PRESSURE" welding ticket in accordance with the specifically made procedure for that joint/base material. Have any of you actually seen a pipe rupture with only 20psi in it? or a steam blow? A pressurized 20psi water/oil line literally has enough to break your leg if you get hit. My apprentices are even looking at these threads by davidbrown, and dieseldon and even they cant believe that this goes on! I guess maybe in canada we have stricter guidelines who knows.
Reply:I recommend taking some pressure tests. Probably won't cost more then a few hundred dollars to get certified.Last edited by AltheWelder; 10-13-2012 at 11:11 PM.