My welds (Take 2)

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Ok cranked up the amperage and speed setting and run some more beads. Also, i pushed this time instead of drag. My settings on my 180 were 9/9.5 35 wire 12 on the bottle gauge. 75/25 mix. 1/4" metal, all mill scale removed and prepped. If im "reading" my bead right im getting closer on the not so cold scale but im still seeing some cold lap on one side. Can this be my mig gun angle not right on that side? In other words when i bring the wire down to that side of the weld im poiting the wire right. Still having some consistency issues but trying to tackle it one thing at a time. Anyways, let me know if im improving and am i on the track with my observations?Miller 180 Auto-Set
Reply:Another problem i had with pushing my welds was that i kept dipping my mig gun into the weld. So thats something i need to work on not doing. The times i did happen i noticed i was laying the gun down too much causing it to dip into my weld. Miller 180 Auto-Set
Reply:Heck yes you are improving. That looks pretty good. The bottom pic with the weld at the bottom does look like the toes are a bit cold. Pushing a weld leaves a weld a bit lite at the penetration to the root, so be careful of that. You might want to do a sectional of that weld to see for pen to the root.What is your obsession with pushing. I was taught and still practice pulling on steel. On the other hand pushing in spray transfer was optional, which is what I have been doing lately.Last edited by shovelon; 03-20-2013 at 08:16 PM.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:This is the first time ive used the push style. Everything before was pull. Was advise to try pushing so i gave it a whirl. HahaYeah i think i was getting to far apart with my swipes from side to side to and not keeping it tight. Giving me cold laps.Last edited by Crazyd; 03-20-2013 at 07:28 PM.Miller 180 Auto-Set
Reply:Definite improvement over your original set of picts.A few things I notice right away. Number one you can slow down a bit. I see a lot of "V" shaped ripples in many of the picts. That is a classic sign that you need to slow your travel speed down. Number two it looks like you need to tighten your patterns up more. It's especially noticeable in the last pict in the lower weld. If you compare that weld with the 1st one you posted, you'll note that in pict #1 the toes are nice and smooth. In the last pict you have a series of "teeth" where the ripples don't all blend into the base together. If you look back at Dan's weld from yesterday, you'll notice his ripples are very tight, vs yours. That's because his motions are very small and very fast vs the big sweeping motions you are making. Number 3 in pict 2 it looks like you went out farther on the lower plate than you did the upper one. Either you need to go up higher on the upper plate, or not go as far out on the lower one. I think I see a similar issue on the welds in pict  3 as well. The angle makes it a bit hard to tell though.The vertical weld on the left in pict 3/4 is particularly bad. Did you do all these welds in the flat position, or is that one an attempt to do a vertical weld? If you tried to go vertical, I'd suggest you hold off a while longer. We have students run thru flat, then horizontal then vertical and finally overhead. Vertical is usually the position that gives students the most trouble because they haven't yet learned to really read the puddle. I see lots of fillet joints. We start students out with beads on flat plate. Then we move them on to overlapping the beads by 50%. After that it's lap joints, followed by T joints. With T's they do a single bead like you are doing. Once they get that signed off, they then run two more beads overlapping  50% of the original for a 2nd layer. Then we will have then finally run a weave over everything, simply to save material. After T's, it's outside corners and finally beveled but joints ( root, stringers to fill and finally a weave to cap.). Each joint gets progressively harder, and builds on what was learned before. Once a student has gotten all the beads signed off in one position, they run thru the whole sequence again in the next position, say horizontal.As far as dragging the nozzle in the puddle, you are right about tipping the gun over too much. You need to get it up straighter, say 10-15 deg off vertical tipped back towards where you already have welded. I often set myself up so I start farther away on the right side, and weld at an angle coming in to the left as I push. I sort of weld more towards myself vs welding right to left, that way I can easily look down the barrel the whole time.  After a while you can start to go more right to left as you begin to pickup on some of the little keys to what is going on with the puddle..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonWhat is your obsession with pushing. I was taught and still practice pulling on steel. On the other hand pushing in spray transfer was optional, which is what I have been doing lately.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWNumber one you can slow down a bit. I see a lot of "V" shaped ripples in many of the picts. That is a classic sign that you need to slow your travel speed down. Number two it looks like you need to tighten your patterns up more. It's especially noticeable in the last pict in the lower weld. If you compare that weld with the 1st one you posted, you'll note that in pict #1 the toes are nice and smooth. In the last pict you have a series of "teeth" where the ripples don't all blend into the base together. If you look back at Dan's weld from yesterday, you'll notice his ripples are very tight, vs yours. That's because his motions are very small and very fast vs the big sweeping motions you are making.
Reply:Here are two vertical down welds i did on one of my bbq pit legs. Welded the top bead vertical down when the pit was laying on its back and then i stood it up and welded the current vertical weld. Miller 180 Auto-Set
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWThe suggestion to push was me from his other post Terry. He was having a lot of issues with heavy cold lap which came from several things all being wrong at once. Voltage too low, on top of a dragged bead was allowing the excess weld material to run over the plate. Upping his voltage and going to a push has solved a great deal of his issues.Tech school I help out at teaches push vs pull with solid wire. Predominantly because several of the businesses that hire out of the tech school use this technique. One guy who does crane work, does this to keep the overall heat input down on the high strength steels he works with. He takes in a lot of students for co-op in their final year. There's also a couple of places that do sheet metal work that hire students. They do production work and weld hot and fast on thin sheet. One place runs up really close to spray on thin sheet for mufflers and cat's. Students who are looking to go work there do thin sheet vertical down after going thru all the other  welds doing mig. School also runs .035 solid wire and 92-8 Argon Co2 and does run in both short arc as well as spray on occasion.I've found guys that can push can usually drag the weld with no problem, but it doesn't always work the other way around. It generally seems easier to get them started right away pushing vs trying to change their weld style 1/2 way thru. Like anything else, it's a tool to be used when it's appropriate.
Reply:Originally Posted by CrazydMakes sense to me. i'll start doing those as well. when running flat beads on flat metal with no joint, is it still best to use the push method here as well?
Reply:Its threads like this that make this site awesome! There is always someone willing to help.I didn't post any questions, but I learned a couple things anyway! Thanks
Reply:ok sounds good. i'll start practicing and working vertical up welds to get a feel for it. looks only get you so far, i want to know i'm getting good penetration.and thanks again for all the outstanding advice.Miller 180 Auto-Set
Reply:Do all the rest of the flat and horizontal welds 1st. You need the hood time to learn to see and read the puddle or you will be beating your head on a wall.With vertical you can't do nice even "timing" patterns that you can with flat and horizontal. You need to adjust your speed side to side based on what you see happening with the puddle. You are having issues right now with travel speed as you travel in the direction of the weld. If you can't read the puddle enough to adjust for forward travel, adjusting for both forward travel and side to side motion will be very frustrating. Take this in little steps. learn to run each joint in each position well, then move on to the next. On average most students at the tech school can get all the way thru vertical in the 48 hours of a semester of night classes with instruction and if the apply themselves. It will take a bit longer on your own. Really good students who pick up reading the puddle faster than most can get thru all the positions in a semester.I've done tons of posts on vertical up in both mig and stick. The basics are the same for both. Mig is easier than stick since you don't have the slag to deal with..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:sounds good, will do. i'll be back out there running some more tomorrow. work on my angle/travel speed and watching/learning the puddle.Miller 180 Auto-Set
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughIts threads like this that make this site awesome! There is always someone willing to help.I didn't post any questions, but I learned a couple things anyway! Thanks