Transforming rail road track to an anvil...need advice

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I'm having trouble finding an anvil.  Hobby use only.  So I've explored other options.Picked up a 43" chunk of VERY old and heavily rusted track which has sat in the grass by our local general store for probably 50 years or more.  No date on it so who knows when made.Anyway, I cut it into 2 equal pieces on the 7x12 band saw and have been cleaning the pieces via electrolysis (2 amp off batter charger) for a week or so.  Cleaning up fairly well.  Lots of pits as would be expected.  I've read somewhere that to put a flat hard face on it, grind a flat surface, find a bottom piece of heavy truck leaf spring, and weld the spring material to the track.  Anyone done this?  Advice?Thanks, Jerry  30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:For hobby use I believe the RR track does not need the extra hardness.  But then again I don't know what you will use it for.
Reply:Jones and Steve,Thanks.Jerry30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:You might find this informative.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...ad+track+anvilDo a search in the top right corner of the page for "railroad anvil" and you will get more results like this to look over for ideas.
Reply:Originally Posted by BistineauYou might find this informative.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...ad+track+anvilDo a search in the top right corner of the page for "railroad anvil" and you will get more results like this to look over for ideas.
Reply:Originally Posted by BistineauYou might find this informative.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...ad+track+anvilDo a search in the top right corner of the page for "railroad anvil" and you will get more results like this to look over for ideas.
Reply:Down side of track anvils is they are light weight. A lot of guys like to turn the rail up on end and bury the end in the ground, so you have as much mass under the hammer as possible. You really only need a face the size of your hammer head, so even though you'd think the rail is small that way, it isn't as big a handicap as a light weight anvil is. Massive blocks of steel are better. A lot of knife guys just want a 12" to 16" long x 6" wide block as tall as they can get for mass. Some use even smaller surface area blocks..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWDown side of track anvils is they are light weight. A lot of guys like to turn the rail up on end and bury the end in the ground, so you have as much mass under the hammer as possible. You really only need a face the size of your hammer head, so even though you'd think the rail is small that way, it isn't as big a handicap as a light weight anvil is. Massive blocks of steel are better. A lot of knife guys just want a 12" to 16" long x 6" wide block as tall as they can get for mass. Some use even smaller surface area blocks.
Reply:You might look into these guys. I think they are in your neck of the woods. Many times groups like this have tailgating areas at local meetings. You might locate an anvil there, or you may locate a member who has an anvil he's bought simply to hold onto until some new guy is looking for one.http://www.tidewaterblacksmiths.com/index.htmlI've passed on at least 6 that were offered at our local club meetings in the tailgate area. One that I would have jumped on, I'd forgotten to bring cash with me to the meeting, forgetting that there would be stuff offered for sale... A blacksmith I know has offered me options on one of two "spare" anvils he has. Several other blacksmiths have pointed me towards guys they know who have anvils for sale.Va and the Carolinas are prime anvil country. I'd check CL using searchtempest as well as hit every antique store you come across. Also let everyone you know that you are looking for an anvil. Not just family and friends, but neighbors, your barber, the grocery store clerk and so on. You may be amazed at the leads you come across. My Chiropractor turned me on to a farmer he knows who had an old anvil in his shed. Anvil was in poor shape, but it was an anvil that I could have bought. My most recent one came from the guy I met in my night machine shop class 3 years ago. The anvil used to be in his dads shop when his dad passed away. He'd kept it because it seemed like it might be worth more than the sale guy was offering. When he found out I was into blacksmithing, he offered it to me. I have a line on another one a customer of mines neighbor has, if he ever digs it out of all the crap he's got piled on top of it in the garage. He turned me on to my last one. A buddy of his who scraps had it in storage. At 1st he wasn't interested in selling. I asked again this spring and he said no problem... If you see one in someones yard as lawn art, stop by and ask if they might be interested in selling... Offer $100-200 and many times people start thinking about letting something they really paid no attention to go, even if they said they weren't interested in selling. Even if they aren't interested in selling, in some cases you might be able to work a swap with them. Give them a cheap HF anvil shaped object and maybe some cash, and take their old rusty anvil in exchange..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I've had a 14 inch section of 90# rail for almost 40 years and have beat the living snot out of parts on it numerous times. My uncle trued it up when first acquired on his surface grinder leaving one edge square, and the other rounded. He also fashioned a horn on the end. It's mounted to a grinder pedestal and works well at the seemingly correct height, (for me).SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:For my next little project I was thinking about cutting the rail off the top of 2 roughly equal lengths of track and welding them together so that nice flat bottom part of the track faces both up and down.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:Thanks DSW, Slob and Mad Welder,  The search continues.30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:How serious are you and how much do you want to spend?I saw this this morning and thought of you. He's in North Carolina, so it's a road trip, but it looks like a really nice 250 lb Fisher anvil he's got for sale. You might need to sign up to see the post. Not sure if visitors can get to all the sections or not.http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/39394-250-1951-fisher/.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Can't see it.    Out of curiosity, what is he asking for it?  I had hoped for about $2 a pound.  Don't know how realistic that is.  I'll sign up asap.30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:He's asking $4 a pound. On an anvil that size it's reasonable. He asked for offers, so he might go a bit lower, but he's a blacksmith and knows what he has, so he won't let it go for peanuts.$2-3 a pound is fair on anvils 150 lbs and less in reasonable shape. They are out there, but you have to hunt. Once you to 200 lbs, anvils tend to get harder to find and the price goes up accordingly. Most of the ones I saw at our tailgate areas were in the $2.50-$4 range per pound. Condition, brand and age all play a part in price. Fishers are the top of the line in cast anvils and a lot of guys love them because they are quiet and don't ring like crazy. Especially if they are in a busy neighborhood with neighbors. One of the anvils I've been looking at getting is a 250 lb Fisher. If I was closer and he came down a bit, say $800 I'd be very tempted. That's about the range I expect to pay the guy who has the one I'm thinking about buying..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks again.30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:Originally Posted by storemanI'm having trouble finding an anvil.  Hobby use only.  So I've explored other options.Picked up a 43" chunk of VERY old and heavily rusted track which has sat in the grass by our local general store for probably 50 years or more.  No date on it so who knows when made.Anyway, I cut it into 2 equal pieces on the 7x12 band saw and have been cleaning the pieces via electrolysis (2 amp off batter charger) for a week or so.  Cleaning up fairly well.  Lots of pits as would be expected.  I've read somewhere that to put a flat hard face on it, grind a flat surface, find a bottom piece of heavy truck leaf spring, and weld the spring material to the track.  Anyone done this?  Advice?Thanks, Jerry
Reply:I flattened the work hardened top of the Rail, then welded a 1" thick 4" by 6" piece of flat Steel Plate to it, then ground a decent looking Horn.Put it on a 3 legged stand, it works fine.
Reply:Originally Posted by drujininI flattened the work hardened top of the Rail, then welded a 1" thick 4" by 6" piece of flat Steel Plate to it, then ground a decent looking Horn.Put it on a 3 legged stand, it works fine.
Reply:I've been keeping an eye out for a piece of track.  Where are some good places to watch for it beyond the standard craigslists or yard sales?  Are there companies that refurbish track? or is it scrapped and recreated typically?
Reply:Check with Progress Rail, I think they are owned by CAT.    There is one of the yards several miles from here and they have thousands of feet of rail that they break in to short pieces to send to the steel mills.   You might be able to get one of their employees to get you a piece.  Sometimes companies will sell to their workers.
Reply:There is a site called anvilfire.com . Check them out, they have info on making anvils out of all sorts of things. Also there is no need for a hard face plate on a rr anvil, rail track is made from hi carbon steel! It can be heated and oil quenched to get almost the same strength as an anvil face.Real welders know how to penetrate!(Equipment)Whatever can be used to beat my opponent into submission!
Reply:Say 3000 rpms for your turning speed????? haha. Originally Posted by docwelderjerry; i believe the surface of rails (if in used condition) are work hardened. once you put welding heat to the rail it may change it's properties. here's one i been working on. for my use in the shop it's plenty hard enough as is.
Reply:Originally Posted by storemanThat is about what I plan to do until I'm able to find an anvil at a good price.Doc,I don't see a way to do that in my 3 jaw Clausen chuck.  Pretty handy.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWHe's asking $4 a pound. On an anvil that size it's reasonable.Pfft... just weld it to the chuck.... Actually if you want to be really slick, you set the rail in at an angle as well. That way the top of the horn is parallel with the anvil face, but you still get your "cone". That's the way a lot of modern anvils are set up..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Here's one I made for a young kid just getting in the trade. Torch, grinder and beat that grinder like it owes you money. Start to finish was less than an hour on my lunch break at work.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Thanks guys.  Mike, that is kinda what I have in mind, except I have to do a LOT of material removal due to wear and pitting.Jerry30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:If your section of track is really really old.. There is a chance its wrought iron.. In that case you may need to hard face it, since wrought iron doesn't temper well because of the low carbon content (normally less than 1%).You should be able to tell with a quick file test or when you start to grind it. If it grinds easily it's probably not hi carbon.Real welders know how to penetrate!(Equipment)Whatever can be used to beat my opponent into submission!
Reply:Looks like the guy who had the anvil I posted earlier today managed to sell it to someone..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Mice job Mike did you have to reheat treat after torching and grinding it?
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeHere's one I made for a young kid just getting in the trade. Torch, grinder and beat that grinder like it owes you money. Start to finish was less than an hour on my lunch break at work.
Reply:I have built several railroad track anvils and the work very well but the ring ungodly loud! After you remove the rust via electrolysis, rough the "horn" to shape with a torch and grind to finish. Find a railroad plate for its square hole for the hardy. Weld it on the end, grind face flat and hard surface. Be sure your bead placement is accurate because you don't want to do a lot of grinding on hard surfacing. -Hillbilly
Reply:Thanks what length do you make them I have a peace 24"
Reply:Whatever length that you want. It's yours.-Hillbilly
Reply:Hey storeman... You should put a link to this thread on the blacksmithing and forging thread that DSW started. We are trying to gather info and things related to forging all in one place so people can thumb through and find blacksmithing info all in one spot.!This thread is definitely worth putting up for people wanting an inexpensive anvil!Also.. How's the track anvil coming along?Real welders know how to penetrate!(Equipment)Whatever can be used to beat my opponent into submission!