Brazing cooper plates... whath is missing?

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Hi everyone.I recently have to solder or join,  an Icemaker plates, the were made of copper plate, and were submerced galvanized... so there is a patina of Zn alloy in the top... The problem as you can see in one of the pics is the fins to be called. Are separated from the baseplate, thou decreassing the thermal exchangue... and therefore inhibit to the ice to be separated from the plate  (at defrost cycle) the next thing we do, is to clean with some clorhidric acid, (previus disolution) To remove most of the tartar on it. We use lots of solder flux and 50/50 Sn/Pb alloy. Never the least I would like to heard if some one know a better method. Kind Regards. Alejandro. Attached ImagesLast edited by AlexLPD; 11-23-2012 at 05:53 PM.
Reply:Cooper plate>>>>>>>>>>>>LOLWhath is missing>>>>> The DictionaryBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Originally Posted by AlexLPDHi everyone.I recently have to solder or join,  an Icemaker plates, the were made of copper plate, and were submerced galvanized... so there is a patina of Zn alloy in the top... We use lots of solder flux and 50/50 Sn/Pb alloy. Never the least I would like to heard if some one know a better method. Kind Regards. Alejandro.
Reply:I'm wondering if the OP isn't from another country, The grammar/spelling plus the fact he is using lead tin solder seem to possibly indicate this..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:My bad......Most likelyBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Alex,you have copper plates that were galvanized, and you're cleaning with hydrochloric acid.  Now the 50/50 (tin/lead) solder isn't sticking, right?Could you strip the galvanize by dipping in vinegar or muriatic acid?Now, I think it's safe to say you're not in the US, and like Dave pointed out, zinc and lead are known to be extremely hazardous in the food industry wether your country allows it or not.  Hell, it's a proven fact that the biggest contributor to retardation and blindness in The South is moonshine distilled through car radiators, plain and simple. Last edited by dubl_t; 11-24-2012 at 11:45 AM.Lincoln SA 200Esab Caddy 160Thermal Arc 201TSMiller Dialarc HFI don't like making plans for the day because then the word "premeditated" gets thrown around the courtroom....
Reply:No, in deed Im not in USA. Yes there are made of solid copper, with submersed galvanized. (I do not make this, Ice Machines, somewhere in colorado state make this, god know how many years ago) And Yes I would like more if there were make of  SS... but again... cant rebate with the manager. Anyway... thanks for the replys.BTW next time I will try to write more clearly, bad grammar is very irritating
Reply:Sorry alex i was just being an a $ $Backed my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Most likely your done since the plating took place AFTER the solder process.....  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Originally Posted by killdozerd11Sorry alex i was just being an a $ $
Reply:Originally Posted by B_CMost likely your done since the plating took place AFTER the solder process.....
Reply:In an no much related topic, some one here know how to solder Stainles?? I do TIG weld but anything below 16Gauge is a pain... So the other day I have seen (ice- pops) ?  mould an there are made from 26-29 gauge stainless steel and all the odd contours are solder... Still I dont know how to make this... Does any one know how this is made??? Thanks a lot. Alex.
Reply:Alex,I suppose it could be silver soldered, post up some pics though so we can see.Lincoln SA 200Esab Caddy 160Thermal Arc 201TSMiller Dialarc HFI don't like making plans for the day because then the word "premeditated" gets thrown around the courtroom....
Reply:For any difficult repair I like to use the high silver content brazing alloys.  I always keep a coil of 50N as it will braze just about anything including mild steel, stainless, bronze, and brass which tends to start off gassing zinc or crack if you get it too hot  using any other method.  Alloys with cadmium have a lower working temperature and are easier to work with.  50N is expensive as it is 50% silver and runs around $70 US a troy ounce.  A little goes a long way if your brazing together fittings and such but it gets expensive if you start trying to fill cracks.Last edited by 76GMC1500; 11-27-2012 at 12:31 AM.
Reply:Perhaps it was dipped in the solder rather than galvanized.
Reply:Originally Posted by 76GMC1500For any difficult repair I like to use the high silver content brazing alloys.  I always keep a coil of 50N as it will braze just about anything including mild steel, stainless, bronze, and brass which tends to start off gassing zinc or crack if you get it too hot  using any other method.  Alloys with cadmium have a lower working temperature and are easier to work with.  50N is expensive as it is 50% silver and runs around $70 US a troy ounce.  A little goes a long way if your brazing together fittings and such but it gets expensive if you start trying to fill cracks.
Reply:Originally Posted by dubl_tAlex,I suppose it could be silver soldered, post up some pics though so we can see.
Reply:Originally Posted by 76GMC1500For any difficult repair I like to use the high silver content brazing alloys.  I always keep a coil of 50N as it will braze just about anything including mild steel, stainless, bronze, and brass which tends to start off gassing zinc or crack if you get it too hot  using any other method.  Alloys with cadmium have a lower working temperature and are easier to work with.  50N is expensive as it is 50% silver and runs around $70 US a troy ounce.  A little goes a long way if your brazing together fittings and such but it gets expensive if you start trying to fill cracks.
Reply:I think the best method  to be use on the grid is to submerse in to acid to remove all Zn an leave clean copper, and then make the solder. And re- hot galvanized It.
Reply:50N works very well on stainless.  Use the dark colored brazing flux.  It's primary function is brazing carbide tool inserts to steel holders but has a very wide range of applications.  It's weaknesses are price and gap filling ability.
Reply:Originally Posted by AlexLPD...... And re- hot galvanized It.
Reply:Alex,maybe this'll help you out:  http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/~...dSoldering.pdfLike 76' recommends the 50N, I've used the Safety Silv 45 with good results, brazing SS concrete tools and dissimilar metals.Lincoln SA 200Esab Caddy 160Thermal Arc 201TSMiller Dialarc HFI don't like making plans for the day because then the word "premeditated" gets thrown around the courtroom....
Reply:Yeah silver solder will work.......Prep is everything make sure you use the correct Flux  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Originally Posted by dubl_twhy would you have to re-galvanize it?I'm not familiar with ice makers, or how long exposed copper would last in such a situation.  I guess after awhile the copper would turn the icecubes greenish?  Might be a new trend
Reply:Originally Posted by dubl_tAlex,maybe this'll help you out:  http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/~...dSoldering.pdfLike 76' recommends the 50N, I've used the Safety Silv 45 with good results, brazing SS concrete tools and dissimilar metals.Well Apparently the floor manager relized this machines costs a lots of money when its off. or Broke. And as you can imagine this machine has several reconstructs. But all have a limit. Right???(Meet the machine, and something of the burn out compressor in here:               So, I will be quoting a new machine in the next few days. The information about the grid solder and their finished.Will make my life far more easier to make the model and bring some prices on it. =) Thank you to all you, Kind Sirs. Kind Regards.
Reply:Well This solve the question in how they make in the factory:(The whole video)          http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=-H8bcjwZSh8(The grid and weld part) http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=-H8bcjwZSh8 Well its seem not to work but jump to the 1.30 min and you see it =) Regards. -Alex
Reply:I am very familiar with ice machine functioning. It really is simple and easy once you see how it works. The grid is copper and they nickel plate the copper. The problem is hard water. Here in Yuma, AZ we have extremely hard water because we source out of the Colorado river right before it hits Mexico. By this time it has picked up all the dissolved solids possible along the way including some jet fuel it picks up out of Nevada. The hard water clogs the whole works up with crust. The only way to clean the grid is with an acidic solution. There are some products out there that are supposed to be nickel safe. I tried it. What works great is muriatic acid. But that will accelerate the nickel erosion. The hard water eats i up too. I eventually had nickel flakes in my product ice. That sucked because I knew it wouldn't be much longer until the grid was ruined. We used the ice for ice chests, not for human consumption. So we didn't care about the human factor. Here is the rub...to replace the grid, you have to evacuate the refrigerant, change the grid out with a new one or a replated original, then recharge the refrigerant. The reason you have to do that is because the back side of the grid has the evaporator coil integrated into it. So it freezes water in the grids as water is cascaded down over it. Then after a time cycle, the valve switches in the refrigerant path making the evaporator coil a condensor coil. This heats the grid up and the cubes drop out in  a big sheet of ice, easily broken up with an ice scooper. The cycle time is adjustable so you can get thicker or thinner sheets of ice. But the crappy part of all this is that it is pretty much cheaper to replace the whole ice machine instead of paying for all the labor and the parts. On my ice machine, the grid cost MORE than what I paid for the whole machine AND the storage cabinet where all the ice is collected.I would imagine in other countries with more lax or absent laws regarding refrigerants, one could just vent it out and recharge it without a license to do so. I would like to see your finished product to know how well a rebuild goes. You could make a ton of money here in the states if you could replate the grids inexpensively and ship them back. our laws are so strict that it makes simple jobs impractically expensive, or as one might say, cost prohibitive.And they make water filters with a water softener in them. They work just like a kinetico softener, but they do not regenerate, you just change them out. A LOT! I would run a water softener to my ice machine if I wanted to keep it in good shape and still use the water softening filters. You would think that Reverse Osmosis water would work better, except that it is hungry water and will actually start to attack the metal in the unit as well. I wonder how deionized water would work?Last edited by Joker11; 12-03-2012 at 11:34 PM.Lincoln Power Mig 210MP MIGLincoln Power Mig 350MP - MIG and Push-PullLincoln TIG 300-300Lincoln Hobby-Weld 110v  Thanks JLAMESCK TIG TORCH, gas diffuser, pyrex cupThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101My brain