Charity case fab up, ughhh!

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This is sort of a rant here guys but I think we all have experience with it!So last week I'm at a somewhat friends house checking out the new mud truck he's building, it's massive by the way! I'm checking everything out and see that all the welds are less than respectful! But it's not my work so whatever. He asks me " can you build me a set of 4 link brackets for the front and rear, I just don't have the equipment to do it?" I said sure I'll build you a nice set for cheap, he then tells me he can buy the brackets online for $300. So I go home and start cutting out 16 plates for the brackets from 3/8 plate. Grind them all the same size and angles, build some small gussets, drill out 16 3/4" holes for the mounting bolts and welded everything up then polished them. They are set up to slip over the sub frame tubing (1 3/4") and be welded into place. Mind you I have about 6 hours + oxy& cet, grinding wheels, some 2.5" 1/4" flat steel, and a new 3/4" bit for the drill press. He provided the 3/8 plate.I get all 8 brackets done and delivered and tell him $100 sounds fair for building them!He looks me in the eyes and says "if I'd known it was going to be that much I wouldn't have had you make them!"WHAT!!! Are you kidding me!!! You told me yourself you couldn't do it and they cost $300 on line..Needless to say he paid and we aren't on good terms!What would you guys have charged? I thought I was right on he low side.This was a pic of 4 of the brackets, forgot to take more..Real welders know how to penetrate!(Equipment)Whatever can be used to beat my opponent into submission!
Reply:100 bucks, ****em.... thats business, friends or not, they need to understand you gave him a deal! you helped him out...a similar thing happened to me years ago with a skid plate on a jeep, dude told me to build it to his dimensions, and it didnt work (i told him it wasnt going to, but he insisted) so he demanded that i load all my fab equipment and come down to his garage and fix it at that moment, i told him to go pound dicks, and that was the last i talked to him.AHP alphatig 200xclarke 130en MIG (first welder i ever bought)NT Plasma 375craftsman 240/180 ac/dc ARCcustom 60x30x30 powder coating ovenhttps://www.facebook.com/pages/Rossi...18853401526643
Reply:That about how I feel on the situation. I only do favors if I know I'll get one in return. Most times you never do though!Real welders know how to penetrate!(Equipment)Whatever can be used to beat my opponent into submission!
Reply:nice job on the brackets btw!exactly, i have a few good friends that i do favors for, because i know they'd do the same for me...everyone else, they are friends, but and i'll give em a little bit of a discount, but they know they'll still pay, or they can go somewhere else. most friends understand that too!AHP alphatig 200xclarke 130en MIG (first welder i ever bought)NT Plasma 375craftsman 240/180 ac/dc ARCcustom 60x30x30 powder coating ovenhttps://www.facebook.com/pages/Rossi...18853401526643
Reply:In these cases most "friends" aren't friends at all but rather simply an acquaintance looking for something for nothing as you've discovered.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:I would have taken them back and said OK. Bye bye and drove away.www.tjsperformance.comDynasty 300 DXHTP 240HTP Microcut 380Hyperthem 85JD2 Hyd Bender and HF Hyd Ring Roller all in one =(Frankenbender)Bpt. Mill/DRO4' x 8' CNC Plasma TableInstagram: tjsperformanceYT: TJS Welding and Fabrication
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55In these cases most "friends" aren't friends at all but rather simply an acquaintance looking for something for nothing as you've discovered.
Reply:Also, Friends or no Friends. Always discuss price first no matter the situation.www.tjsperformance.comDynasty 300 DXHTP 240HTP Microcut 380Hyperthem 85JD2 Hyd Bender and HF Hyd Ring Roller all in one =(Frankenbender)Bpt. Mill/DRO4' x 8' CNC Plasma TableInstagram: tjsperformanceYT: TJS Welding and Fabrication
Reply:$100.00 is more than fair but ya learned the lesson that the price should have been agreed upon before you started.acquaintances = 1/2 priceFriends- they come over and use my tools to build stuff.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Yup... That's not the first time I've learned the same lesson, but I guess it happens. At least I got paid! I don't know what I would have put those brackets on.... I might have had to build something for them to go on like a monster truck! LolReal welders know how to penetrate!(Equipment)Whatever can be used to beat my opponent into submission!
Reply:Originally Posted by PipelinerHey there you are Duane ole buddy how in the world are ya old pal?!  Say I've got this welder and it runs great but won't strike and arc..........
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749I'm pretty selective about what I do for ppl and I usually give the line that I'm real busy and prolly won't have time to do it for them, that they're better off going to someone else. I turn lots of work away, too many headaches attached to it.I just tell them up from what my labor rate is. I don't have many friends, but the ones I do have have always been more than generous with me, often giving me more than I've asked for.Anyone else, I just keep my guard up and defer them to someplace else unless they want to pay.IMHO of course
Reply:If they werent so thick I would've smashed em right in front of him and told him to fck off. $100 was way fair. It loses it's effect on people when you smash em and nothing happens to them tho  Years ago I worked for a neighborhood motorcycle shop, and brought my mig and tig welders there just to get away from this kind of stuff. He closed at 6 and I would not do any work till the doors were closed. I would also go there on sundays when he would do his bills and catch up work for himself. All those 1/3 price jobs now turned into sorry but i'm working part time for a shop and you have to go talk to Frank. This went on for a good six years and I made a pile of money there. Eventually his rent went through the roof and he was forced to close down. Low and behold one by one they all came back to me and no longer as a wanna be friend. All business. I still get the idiots tho, but i'm not a little kid anymore so I almost entertain when someone wants to test my patience all alone on my property. It's not that hard, I don't get it. You want a job performed, end of story. Jobs come with a price. I recently payed a plumber $110 just to show up and look at something. When I asked what I owed him my eyes popped out, he was there for 2min, but he drove from the next county to come look and I understand that. Forget the 2min it took to just look at something, he gave up a hour and a half of his day. People just don't get it. Anyway, screw that guy. It was worth the money loss to get rid of him for good and just move on. You don't need these annoying gnats in your life.  I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Usually I tell People I can make it better or make it different  but I can't make it cheaper than a  chinaesee factory
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1acquaintances = 1/2 priceFriends- they come over and use my tools to build stuff.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeIf they werent so thick I would've smashed em right in front of him and told him to fck off. $100 was way fair. It loses it's effect on people when you smash em and nothing happens to them tho  Years ago I worked for a neighborhood motorcycle shop, and brought my mig and tig welders there just to get away from this kind of stuff. He closed at 6 and I would not do any work till the doors were closed. I would also go there on sundays when he would do his bills and catch up work for himself. All those 1/3 price jobs now turned into sorry but i'm working part time for a shop and you have to go talk to Frank. This went on for a good six years and I made a pile of money there. Eventually his rent went through the roof and he was forced to close down. Low and behold one by one they all came back to me and no longer as a wanna be friend. All business. I still get the idiots tho, but i'm not a little kid anymore so I almost entertain when someone wants to test my patience all alone on my property. It's not that hard, I don't get it. You want a job performed, end of story. Jobs come with a price. I recently payed a plumber $110 just to show up and look at something. When I asked what I owed him my eyes popped out, he was there for 2min, but he drove from the next county to come look and I understand that. Forget the 2min it took to just look at something, he gave up a hour and a half of his day. People just don't get it. Anyway, screw that guy. It was worth the money loss to get rid of him for good and just move on. You don't need these annoying gnats in your life.
Reply:Originally Posted by SquirmyPugFriends don't use the tools, they BS and watch you do the work.
Reply:Wow $100 is cheap.  You would think he would have an idea how much time was involved.  So Dan... want to weld in some subframe connectors in my Trans Am?  lol
Reply:Lol..! You are close enough! LolReal welders know how to penetrate!(Equipment)Whatever can be used to beat my opponent into submission!
Reply:Originally Posted by Dantheharleyman99Lol. Thought I was the only one that had that problem!  I think it's my own fault though, I have all the patience in the world if I'm teaching someone something... But if I'm on a tight schedule,.... Get out of the way, drink a beer, and I'll have it done in no time!
Reply:It looks pretty rough Dan but you earned your money on it.
Reply:Originally Posted by SquirmyPugFriends don't use the tools, they BS and watch you do the work.
Reply:Amazing, guy gets custom made pieces dam near for free. The 3/4 bit was probably around $20 , electricity, oxygen and acetylene not to mention FREE DELIVERY ! Sorry buddy, some jobs really suck. Like Weldermike said about a $100 for the plumber. EVERYTHING is expensive today.
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1$100.00 is more than fair but ya learned the lesson that the price should have been agreed upon before you started.acquaintances = 1/2 priceFriends- they come over and use my tools to build stuff.
Reply:I'm very selective about who I call a "friend".  As the years have gone on, the amounts have vastly dwindled.  The definition becomes stricter.  I consider a true "friend" someone who would put themselves in harms way to protect me.  So I can count them on one hand.  For a friend, I do things for nothing and sometime even eat the material cost.  But that goes both ways.  Anyone who would let me do that without some reciprocity gets the favor only once.  Generally the guys I help and say "it's no problem" to are beating down my door with cash or something else to thank me.  Anyone that's worth their weight knows this.  Charity only goes so far if it's not returned.Last edited by Drf255; 09-30-2014 at 05:12 AM.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 MagnumReplacing  a borrowed tool that was broken should be an automatic reaction , and not have to be asked ! Even drill bits and grinding wheels  any consumable ,should be supplied or replaced . I have known guys who said when they broke somthing ,"it was an old piece of S**t why should I replace it with a new one" etc.etc.
Reply:^i'd even be fine if they replaced it with another "old piece of ****" as long as it was equivalent to the one they broke!AHP alphatig 200xclarke 130en MIG (first welder i ever bought)NT Plasma 375craftsman 240/180 ac/dc ARCcustom 60x30x30 powder coating ovenhttps://www.facebook.com/pages/Rossi...18853401526643
Reply:Yea I hate it when people think that because I have the tools to do something,  that they didn't cost me anything ,or that I some how got them for free and they were cheated on the giveaway .
Reply:Yup.. A lot of my tools and equipment are old and used, but I maintain everything I own Regularly and even my 32 year old drill press runs like a champ! If I let someone barrow or use something and it breaks due to an issue that was already there I'm ok with that, but if it's broken due to abuse or using it improperly I expect to be compensated, even if they fix what they broke themselves that fine by me.. But the people I lend things to will fix/replace what they break and I'd do the same for them!It's not just a tool, it's my means of income and self sufficiency.  I can't remember the last time I paid someone to do something for me because I've got everything it takes to do it my self! Except for my nephews.... Those little jokers hustle money out of me every weekend doing yard work! LolReal welders know how to penetrate!(Equipment)Whatever can be used to beat my opponent into submission!
Reply:Originally Posted by limegreentj^i'd even be fine if they replaced it with another "old piece of ****" as long as it was equivalent to the one they broke!
Reply:I was "livid" several years ago when my neighbor borrowed a then new "Jonesred" chain saw from my wife, (while I was gone) and destroyed the roller bearing nose bar running it in the dirt; then denying to my face knowing full well how I take care of, and maintain my tools. He went so far as to say the saw was in too bad of shape to even use. He did wind up replacing both the chain and bar with new items from the dealer after I started testing and tuning rebuilt "Grover", and "Hadley" semi truck air horns between our houses at near 2:00am during the middle of the week. Having commercial zoning at my property helps with pesky neighbors and matters like that.SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:^hahaha awesome!!!!AHP alphatig 200xclarke 130en MIG (first welder i ever bought)NT Plasma 375craftsman 240/180 ac/dc ARCcustom 60x30x30 powder coating ovenhttps://www.facebook.com/pages/Rossi...18853401526643
Reply:He can get them for $300, online you can buy them for $275 from me. You gave them a sweet dealSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by Dantheharleyman99This is sort of a rant here guys but I think we all have experience with it!So last week I'm at a somewhat friends house checking out the new mud truck he's building, it's massive by the way! I'm checking everything out and see that all the welds are less than respectful! But it's not my work so whatever. He asks me " can you build me a set of 4 link brackets for the front and rear, I just don't have the equipment to do it?" I said sure I'll build you a nice set for cheap, he then tells me he can buy the brackets online for $300. So I go home and start cutting out 16 plates for the brackets from 3/8 plate. Grind them all the same size and angles, build some small gussets, drill out 16 3/4" holes for the mounting bolts and welded everything up then polished them. They are set up to slip over the sub frame tubing (1 3/4") and be welded into place. Mind you I have about 6 hours + oxy& cet, grinding wheels, some 2.5" 1/4" flat steel, and a new 3/4" bit for the drill press. He provided the 3/8 plate.I get all 8 brackets done and delivered and tell him $100 sounds fair for building them!He looks me in the eyes and says "if I'd known it was going to be that much I wouldn't have had you make them!"WHAT!!! Are you kidding me!!! You told me yourself you couldn't do it and they cost $300 on line..Needless to say he paid and we aren't on good terms!What would you guys have charged? I thought I was right on he low side.This was a pic of 4 of the brackets, forgot to take more..Attachment 858281
Reply:The problem is that you said the final price. Next time say 20% more and at the end say ''only for you I make a 20% discount'' enybody is happy.
Reply:Originally Posted by Agapios_AgapiouThe problem is that you said the final price. Next time say 20% more and at the end say ''only for you I make a 20% discount'' enybody is happy.
Reply:Ya I normally cover all my bases before I even start a project but it was just one of those times I said "ah.. He's a buddy he won't do me wrong" I also thought he would have been happy to get better brackets for a third of the price too!Just proves what everyone says ... Me + thinking = DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!! DANGER! Bwhaahhaa..Real welders know how to penetrate!(Equipment)Whatever can be used to beat my opponent into submission!
Reply:Everyone wants the convenience and capability of a machine or welding shop to build stuff they don't need with out actually having to buy the machines, have the extra building or garage square footage.Last edited by mad welder 4; 10-03-2014 at 02:11 AM.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:I don't think it matter where you're at or what trade you're in. Those types of people are always around with there hand out.
Reply:I would have fired up my welder, cranked it up to max amperage, and demonstrated unwelding. "Well if you can't pay, then I guess I have no use for these any longer" Originally Posted by onealweldingI don't think it matter where you're at or what trade you're in. Those types of people are always around with there hand out.
Reply:I charge all my neighbors and people who are supposed to be friends.Why?If they were to take it somewhere else, they would have to pay.I need to pay for materials and consumables, not necessarily my time on friend projects unless previously agreed upon.Now if you are a neighbor or friend stuck in the snow, I'll come pull you out, tow you home or whatever necessary for Free.
Reply:^until you damage something on their car and they sue you....sucks, but its happened to some people i know.AHP alphatig 200xclarke 130en MIG (first welder i ever bought)NT Plasma 375craftsman 240/180 ac/dc ARCcustom 60x30x30 powder coating ovenhttps://www.facebook.com/pages/Rossi...18853401526643
Reply:Originally Posted by Dantheharleyman99Ya I normally cover all my bases before I even start a project but it was just one of those times I said "ah.. He's a buddy he won't do me wrong" I also thought he would have been happy to get better brackets for a third of the price too!Just proves what everyone says ... Me + thinking = DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!! DANGER! Bwhaahhaa..
Reply:^ **** all in sure lol Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:Any one been to a doctor lately , go see him for an ear ache  ,then ask him about a back pain , He will want you to make another appointment  . he bills in ten minute blocks .  Lets see $65 for office visit X 6=$390 per hour . If a welder tried to bill like that they would scream to the high heaven ,or if they were democrat pass a law baring you from excessive billing .
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonSo what do you think he REALLY wanted to pay you?
Reply:I have friends who are professional auto mechanics.  I take my car to them for the bigger jobs that I do not have the time to finish or capability to do.  That said, I am not expecting a freebie or even a discount as that is how they make their living.  Regardless, I know I will get top quality work at a fair price with no hidden rip offs.  Even if the price is the exactly the same as somewhere else, I know I get better work from them.  I am much more comfortable with the finished product so I still win in my mind.  I would rather see my money go to a friend anyways.I can loosely relate to your welding situation though, when I first got my little Kubota tractor with loader always had all kinds of neighbors and so called friends wanting me to do odd tractor jobs.  Some would offer a few bucks for fuel (but never enough to actually cover the amount of fuel burned).  Anyway, I now have multiple tractors and some are better suited for some jobs.  Anyone approaches me about doing a job.  I provide them with an hourly rate depending on which tractor I use.  My rate is dirt cheap as I pay myself a whopping $10 an hour, factor in the gph the tractor burns at WOT, plus another $6 goes to the tractor to cover oil changes, filter changes, hydraulic fluid, wear and tear etc.  I only charge for the time the tractor is working and if that is 15 minutes then charge is for 15 mins.  I do not charge at all for hooking up the implements, transports, or time spent talking.  If tractor breaks down, I do not charge for that either or for any repairs (some of my stuff is old).  They only pay for the minutes the tractor is working on their job.  I am not making any money at all, but I am no longer taking it in the keester either.The understanding people willing and eagerly pay the fee as they realize how cheap it is and you will get future repeat requests from them.  The freeloaders say they will get back to you and let you know something.  The freeloaders never get back to you, but the best part is they never ask you again which is an even better bonus.  The freeloaders already know they are not going to get something for nothing and totally leave you alone.  I bought my tractors for me anyway.  I have zero problems if I get zero requests.Last edited by rankrank1; 10-04-2014 at 12:51 PM.