Hypothetical but Real:

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Here is a dilemma I'm currently facing:I have this Hobart 250 ampere DC engine drive machine and it needed the welding leads replaced from age. The insulation is very bad on the work lead, and probably marginal, (but intact) on the stinger lead. From a chart at work it showed that to carry 250 amperes 100 feet distant, the wire requirement is a 2/0 cable. This is what I ordered citing the measurement of the insulation jacket on the existing cables. When the new roll of 250 feet shows up at the shop, the copper is much heavier in count yet the jacket is very similar in external dimension. It is also heavier in weight due to increased wire size. Now when I cut the existing cable with a clean shear cut, it's dimension appears to be a 1AWG welding cable size. I don't have to keep the 2/0 cable reel and it can be sent back without charge as it was not special order, nor custom cut for me hence 50 additional feet purchased.I don't plan to utilize this welder's full output potential at my current understanding level but am kind of lost as to path to proceed upon. I can't remember if I've ever ran anything over 200 amperes myself unless just testing something but then again I'm not a skilled welder. Most of my anticipated repairs will most likely be centered around the 1/8th and 5/32nds variety of electrode sizing unless I'm missing something. I suppose I'm asking for experience to prevail in what to do as far as leads? Should I send these back and order 1AWG welding cable as installed prior? Thanks,SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:What is your intended duty cycle? The chart is most likely for 100% duty cycle. You will be fine at 200' for 150A at close to 60%. If the leads get hot, it'll be the limit of use.Teach Ag Mech - Mike At Home:Lincoln Electric AC225Miller Challenger 172Gas AxeWork:eclectic bunch of 90's vintage blue boxes
Reply:Originally Posted by teachagmechWhat is your intended duty cycle? The chart is most likely for 100% duty cycle. You will be fine at 200' for 150A at close to 60%. If the leads get hot, it'll be the limit of use.
Reply:I say use the 00 for the work lead so you never have to worry about it heating up.Then if the stinger lead is going to be 100 feet long, make it out of 80 feet of 00ga and make the last 20 feet out of 1 or 2ga.But that's kind of over kill.I don't think I would want a stinger lead heavier than 1ga.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:As I read your problem you have new cable that's larger than your old. Is the weight too much for you? (Not implying you're weak, just asking if it is undesirably heavy) You were ok with the price you paid for the heavier leads. Personally if it were me I'd keep the heavier leads unless they were inconveniently heavy. It's the only negative I can think of.
Reply:Originally Posted by mad welder 4I say use the 00 for the work lead so you never have to worry about it heating up.Then if the stinger lead is going to be 100 feet long, make it out of 80 feet of 00ga and make the last 20 feet out of 1 or 2ga.But that's kind of over kill.I don't think I would want a stinger lead heavier than 1ga.
Reply:Originally Posted by KavallAs I read your problem you have new cable that's larger than your old. Is the weight too much for you? (Not implying you're weak, just asking if it is undesirably heavy) You were ok with the price you paid for the heavier leads. Personally if it were me I'd keep the heavier leads unless they were inconveniently heavy. It's the only negative I can think of.
Reply:Put some quick dissconnects on and make your self a 3 or 4 gauge stinger lead too for lighter duty stuff.I have a 100 amp german made stinger on 10ft 4ga cable, nice for getting into smaller spaces. But my all around cable is made of about 15ft of 3ga with 10 feet of 4ga on the end with a "150 amp" hobart stinger.For heavier stuff I use a 2ga lead about 30 some feet long.For my work lead I almost always use a 20 foot long 1ga.Then use miller plug jacks on all the ends of the leads so most of your stingers can be connected end to end. Only the smallest stingers cant open wide enough to bite down on a miller plug jack.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:What is the price difference on the lead between what they sent and what you want? They are making the insulation thinner than the old stuff (different rubber).  I would make the ground 110' long and the stinger 140' plus get 10'of 15' of whip with a 150 amp stinger. (nice and lite compared to a 250/300 amp stinger). as for ladder work get a lead hook ,so you are not trying to weld holding the entire lead weight. Oh and the wire gauge is marked on the out side of the insulation some where .  gxbxcLast edited by gxbxc; 10-09-2014 at 12:49 PM.
Reply:It's the insulation thickness that threw the loop here. Assuming from the exterior diameter I ordered the 2/0 cable as it agreed with the wall chart I'd referenced. The existing cable was new with the welder in 1965 so it has a few years on it. I don't mind the additional cost of the much heavier cable and I really like the idea of multiple stinger type leads in shorter lengths. I have several "Jackson", and "Tweco" cable joiners I can use to make up most anything I'd need. The current leads being 100' long was used as a minimum standard to recable from. I only measured the outer diameter of the cable jacket of the stinger lead as it's in fair shape for it's age. It wasn't unil I completely spooled out both leads that I seen "Belden 18904 1AWG" imprinted onto the jacket. Of the whole 200' length of cables on this machine there are only two of the imprints remaining and both are on the work lead which is in such bad condition. It was shielded from sun exposure by the the cable wrappings on the mounts.I have my fresh torch bottles mounted up, new tires installed, some 1/2 way decent steel fenders ordered, (not yet received) fresh tins of both 7/32nd, and 1/8th 7018 rod, and a couple of the all important fire extinguishers, (both CO2, and dry powder) ready to mount up. I'm going to follow earlier advice and purchase a couple containers of 6010 to have on there also.After the welder comes back from the exhaust shop and is quiet, I'll get a few more little things taken care of like a complete routine service and then start looking for some work. I've just about burned through all my 6011 and older 7018 electrodes to gain a little experience with this machine so will be starting with everything new to level the playing field so to speak. The first little job I plan to do is redeck my semi trailer's upper level and slope which is pretty bad:I could bring the trailer inside the shop but something this large would be easier to work on outside. I'd like to use this trailer and welder both as a learning tool, and to gain confidence with experience. I am pretty confident I can do the job and do have the liability insurance coverage in place for doing this kind of work.SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:Damn that first photo is blurry. It's not on the computer and I've tried posting it twice?SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:I have been running 1/0 for years. Unless you are burning big sticks, or using high amp applications a lot, then get the 1/0.
Reply:BTW, I have mine in 50' pieces with QDs.
Reply:I've been thinking about the direction to take with this cable ordeal. I have 50' leads on my other G-213 machine and they are 1/0 so I'm going to change the Jackson quick disconnects on the original rotten cables for the G-258 to the Tweco type used on the G-213 and retain the 2/0 cable purchased and this will give me about 175' total length leads. Doing this quick disconnect swap will allow me to leave the 50 ft. leads on the G-258 machine for normal usage and only install the long heavy leads when needed. I think I'm good with that. Thoughts?Thanks,SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....