Welding Angle Clamps ......??

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Any recomendations?  I'm looking at the Bessey WSM-9 clamp. Any cheaper alternatives beside the cheap Chinese knockoffs?  http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...TL._AA280_.jpgAll Good Medicine,Crow
Reply:I've got that style of clamp.Be aware that when using any style of corner clamp, the clamping action will roll -especially square tubing....and can set it out of square.IOW--these corner clamps won't set things square--if you bother to check.The fastest, most accurate thing I do is use magnetic clamps--not to set squareness, just to hold the parts--then check with squares, measure diagonals/parallels/etc.I'll only use any corner clamp--now, solely to help fixturing; since it can't be trusted to hold square for a bunch of reasons.Blackbird
Reply:Originally Posted by Crow HorseAny recomendations?  I'm looking at the Bessey WSM-9 clamp. Any cheaper alternatives beside the cheap Chinese knockoffs?  http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...TL._AA280_.jpg
Reply:Originally Posted by dave powelsonI'll only use any corner clamp--now, solely to help fixturing; since it can't be trusted to hold square for a bunch of reasons.
Reply:I just finished a project, made from 2" and 1" square tubing using 90 degree glue clamps actually designed for woodworking.  It is correct that they won't pull the the steel tubing into square, but if you use a framing square, they will help it stay square and lined up while you set the rest of your corners.Contact me for any metal polishing needs you may have, my avatar is a pic of a standard, painted fire axe that I ground, sanded polished and buffed to a mirror finish.
Reply:Originally Posted by Crow HorseThanks!  Ok, I'll bite......  why or how so?
Reply:http://www.weldingweb.com/attachment...1&d=1199086587Above is an example of using magnets in fitup.In this pic. two of the largest sides are identical; which is often the case. Good fitup begins with accurate cutting and mitering---IOW--the parts are cut to same lengths, etc.One of the fixture's sliding crossbars is positioned to support the work.Proceed to fitup one side—the MASTER.(This pic shows two stacked, I don't have a pic of the MASTER fitup.)Weak magnets are used to hold the 4 tubes in position, with shims under the single, 1 1/4" dia. round tube. Strong magnets are used for the end stops, as shown.Check with corner squares, either inside or outside corners, wherever the magnets are not placed, to get things, 'close'.In most fitups, do not allow for any weld/penetration gapping. Grind bevels, for full pen. welds before the fitup.Allowing for weld gapping, is a guarantee for distortion and weld pulling.After the squares show, 'close', then tape measure for length & width dimensional control.If that looks good, then measure diagonal, and gently tap the parts around, to 'PULL SQUARE'. It's this diagonal measuring, that insures accuracy. 'Pulling Square' is where they separate the journeymen from the wannabee's!Normally, in most of my fitups, I like to see +/- 1/16"........SQUARE. If there's a reason, I can pull square within 1/32" total.Tubing, angle iron, flats, etc. are not dead true, straight and flat.PULLING SQUARE, compensates for these normal characteristics and gives one the best, no-guess accuracy they can hope for. Simply measuring for height and width, fooling around endlessly with the squares, doesn't produce accuracy, just wastes lots of time.For this first, MASTER, I tacked on the inside corners—only. Tacking on the outsidescan create some weld 'pulling' and distortion.The duplicate(s) are quickly and accurately tacked up, via the magnet setup, shown above.More tacks are added after the sides are fit-up. Attached ImagesBlackbird
Reply:Dave - Thanks so much for the detailed info.  I'm a newbie welder, making a "midlife" course correction and by nature, I'm a sponge for information and your replies were perfect!It seems that the angle clamps won't be as much help as I originally thought and not be cost effective to purchase.  The magnets and a good tape measure are far cheaper and produce better results with a little noodling....Thanks again!All Good Medicine,Crow
Reply:I don't know if the link will work, but I found this in Make magazinehttp://www.make-digital.com/make/vol...1&doc_id=26301In case it doesn't work, the author just took a piece of 6" flat iron and attached 2 pieces of angle iron to it at a right angle.  I suppose it would even be possible to make an adjustable jig to fit a range of angles...Living the life some consider a myth...
Reply:Originally Posted by downhill76I don't know if the link will work, but I found this in Make magazinehttp://www.make-digital.com/make/vol...1&doc_id=26301In case it doesn't work, the author just took a piece of 6" flat iron and attached 2 pieces of angle iron to it at a right angle.  I suppose it would even be possible to make an adjustable jig to fit a range of angles...
Reply:Bessey clamps are worth there weight in gold.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Sighting with the eye is a check for parralellismLast edited by Tinbasher; 01-04-2008 at 11:05 PM.
Reply:I could never use those welder's magnets. Our shop is a clean shop yet there is still an incredible amount of grindings everywhere. After 5 minutes, those magnets would be all furry and nothing but a nuisance. I prefer to use C-clamp visegrips wherever I can...Bessey Clamps are good clamps, but don't over tighten them and realize that it takes nothing more than a single blow with a hammer to disengage them, so don't rely on them with your life.There are a thousand ways to put square frames together, lets face it, it's not rocket science. I'll agree that measuring diagonal is how to square things, and commonly we like to be within 1/16". I've never heard the term 'pulling square' and tossing it around certainly doesn't make anyone a journeyman. Like I said there are a thousand good ways to do it...I like to set the overall dimensions, tacking in a manner that allows the frame to hinge at the corners so that it can be adjusted. Check diagonals, determine the difference between the two, add half of it to the smaller dimension and this is the number that you are shooting for.Put the pony clamp across the longest diagonal and hook your tape on the far corner of the shortest diagonal. Watch you tape and crank up the clamp until you get the number you're looking for. Tack a temporary brace across any two adjacent sides...and then she's not going anywhere. tack up solid and weld...Done deal. You can measure Diagonals from anywhere...the key is that you remain absolutely consistent in the manner in which you do it. What you do on one side ...repeat the method on the other side.
Reply:my replies are in blue Originally Posted by TinbasherI could never use those welder's magnets. Our shop is a clean shop yet there is still an incredible amount of grindings everywhere. After 5 minutes, those magnets would be all furry and nothing but a nuisance.      **The magnets are cleaned with a wisk broom or carefully blown clean with air (wearing a face shield!). Magnets are stored--off the layout area.I prefer to use C-clamp visegrips wherever I can...Bessey Clamps are good clamps, but don't over tighten them and realize that it takes nothing more than a single blow with a hammer to disengage them, so don't rely on them with your life.There are a thousand ways to put square frames together, lets face it, it's not rocket science. I'll agree that measuring diagonal is how to square things, and commonly we like to be within 1/16". I've never heard the term 'pulling square' and tossing it around certainly doesn't make anyone a journeyman.      Tinbasher--I've got nothing but respect for the level of work you do. That said--pulling square was a term I got from journeymen--I employed.     IMHO--the journeyman is capable of creating to print, taking into account-all the elements of form, fit, and function.  Like I said there are a thousand good ways to do it...I like to set the overall dimensions, tacking in a manner that allows the frame to hinge at the corners so that it can be adjusted. Check diagonals, determine the difference between the two, add half of it to the smaller dimension and this is the number that you are shooting for.Put the pony clamp across the longest diagonal and hook your tape on the far corner of the shortest diagonal. Watch you tape and crank up the clamp until you get the number you're looking for. Tack a temporary brace across any two adjacent sides...and then she's not going anywhere. tack up solid and weld...Done deal.      Your's Truly, uses temporaries, tacking--ditto as you do. It all depends on the job. Tinbasher's outlined  a thorough way to proceed.You can measure Diagonals from anywhere...the key is that you remain absolutely consistent in the manner in which you do it. What you do on one side ...repeat the method on the other side.