Aluminum Tig problem

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Im trying to figure out if something is wrong with my machine.  I was at the point where I was making some nice consistent Al beads, but something's gone awry.  The problems began after I attempted to tig braze the tips of third hands I had made with OA bronze rods covered in flux.  My machine was on DC, the brazing rod and flux sputtered and popped like hell, tossing stuff up into my gas lens.  I changed the lens, but not the collet, and started practicing on aluminum again.Machine is a TA Arcmaster 300 ACDC20 series CK torch with lensArgon at 12-202% Lanthanated 3/32" sharpened to a point#8 cup3/32 stickout5356 filler rod1/8" Aluminum150 amps with pedal60-150HZ50-90% ENTorch angle from 0-25*I'm gonna try to post some pics later.I cleaned the Aluminum with a SS brush (may be the culprit).  Wiped with acetone after brushing.  My ground is good.  All cables tight.What's happening is that I can see a skin forming on the clean puddle while I'm moving.  I used to get a nice fluid puddle that I could add filler to smoothly.  Now my arc will intermittently sputter and the weld will look aweful.  It especially happens when I'm coming off the peddle to lower amps and especially at the end of the bead.  When I swirl at the end of the bead to avoid a crater, I just get a skin forming over the bead end and can't add rod.  I never remember seeing a skin form on the puddle.  It's almost like there's no EP at times.  If I change my balance, it does have an effect, but ive gone as low as 50% EN and have hade the same problem.  Its also very difficult to add filler rod.  It wants to ball up before it hits the puddle.I lit up and swirled on a perfectly clean alum coupon and got not signs of contamination.I'm worried it's my machine, but I think if I broke the machine, it would be an all or none in AC.  The DC arc, by the way, is perfect.  I'm gonna try a new wire brush next.Thanks for the help.  I'm gonna try to post pics ASAP.Last edited by Drf255; 02-09-2013 at 08:27 AM.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Pics of old beadsTA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:New beads.  Note end cratersTA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:The last pic above shows where the sputtering happened for a few seconds.  It's the fourth bead down.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:I wiped the filer down with acetone.   Same filler.  3/32" 5356.I'm thinking it's contamination.   I'm gonna change out the entire front end of the torch and try a new brush.As long as its not my machine, I will deal with it.  I just don't get the sputtering.  You can see it in the particular bead I mentioned.  In the past with contamination with the machine set to 65% EN, he puddle would occasionally get some black flecks floating in it.  Now you actually see a skin form, the way you would with a torch or DC.   It looks like its not popping the oxide layer off.  Changing the frequency changes the arc sound, so it's switching, but I still get the skin.The end of the bead is the craziest part.  I get that skin and sputter when I back off the peddle.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:After I plow 2 feet of snow, I'm gonna try running a no filler bead, then ones with a different batch of 5356 and some 4340.  Again, I'm just hoping its not the machine.  I was getting thre with my consistency, now my beads are worse than a few months ago.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749That skin thing has almost always been contamination for me.The brush coulda transferred something, the filler could be oxidized. Change the entire business end of the torch out. You could have trace elements of that flux on your torch.New tungsten, new metal, go for it.How's the gas ? Getting low?Always look to the simple stuff first. It's usually the issue.Good luck with the snow.
Reply:1)change all the consumables in the torch, and brand new tungsten also, check back-cap for cracks or bad o-ring .2) disassemble the torch handle and tighten the gas connectorsI never had a botlle with bad gas" but I stumbled a few "bad" gas lens colet bodies...maybe 3-4 in 7 years.. couldn't see anything wrong with them but they just didn't work.It may also be that you just change the torch angle at the end of the weld or lift the torch...There is a change in consistency from old beads underneath (that are quite ok)--------------------------------------------------------------www.becmotors.nlyup, I quit welding.. joined welder anonymous
Reply:Originally Posted by Donoharm1)change all the consumables in the torch, and brand new tungsten also, check back-cap for cracks or bad o-ring .2) disassemble the torch handle and tighten the gas connectorsI never had a botlle with bad gas" but I stumbled a few "bad" gas lens colet bodies...maybe 3-4 in 7 years.. couldn't see anything wrong with them but they just didn't work.It may also be that you just change the torch angle at the end of the weld or lift the torch...There is a change in consistency from old beads underneath (that are quite ok)
Reply:I really need some more stock to practice on.  I used a piece of .060 tubing.  These are at 100Hz, 65% EN, 60 ampsTop no filler, bottom 1/16 5356Top 3/32 5356, bottom 3/32 4043TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:These are 60Hz, 25% EN, 60 amps.top no filler, bottom 1/16 5356top 3/32 5356, bottom 3/32 4340TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:The lens was changed.  The collet and back cap was changed.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Today I'm going to try to grab some new stock and a new wire brush.  I'm going to try to swap my torch out to the old 17 series and see if that changes things.The gas is flowing out of the torch well.  Ive even turned the AR up to 20 cfh with no difference.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:When I see a "skin" forming I suspect the material is anodized.  Personally I run my tungsten further in the cup, plus I would use a smaller cup,but thats because I have trouble keeping the tungten out of the puddle. I would check for airtight hose and machine connections, even though there is pressure, air will get in.  Last, post flow the argon before lifting torch.  I am not a tig expert, the machine I use is the econo tig.
Reply:Originally Posted by Drf255Today I'm going to try to grab some new stock and a new wire brush.  I'm going to try to swap my torch out to the old 17 series and see if that changes things.The gas is flowing out of the torch well.  Ive even turned the AR up to 20 cfh with no difference.
Reply:Check all your connections on the torch, check to make sure your gas lens is tight with the back nut loose on the torch. Looks to me like oxygenated atmosphere in shielding zone.Miller bobcat 225g  - spoolmatic 1Mm250 - 30a spoolMiller spectrum 375Thermal arc 95 Everlast Ex 250As the boiler turns, these are the days of our lives
Reply:I just noticed you mentioned some of equpment was damaged in sandy.  Was this possibly affected as well?
Reply:Originally Posted by blackbartI just noticed you mentioned some of equpment was damaged in sandy.  Was this possibly affected as well?
Reply:It seems like some of the first pictures you pointed out the problems cropped up right at the end of your weld: as if post-flow wasn't sufficient. What about if you crank up gas a fair bit and see if it helps? Check that your solenoid is operating correctly? Make sure you don't have leaks in the gas line? Do you have a flowmeter on the gas line?I'm just sharing my thinking, I don't know .01% about welding as anyone else on here, probably including you...Miller XMT304 CC/CVBernard TIG coolerSSC foot pedal"It's a poor craftsman who blames his tewls toles TOOLS" (!^$#% keyboard)
Reply:Do us all a favor, on the welds your having and issue with using a tiger paw grind into the weld all the way down the weld. Take a picture, and post it up. I'm wondering if there is porosity through the whole weld. Because to me the whole weld looks contaminated, but I'm looking at it from my phone, so maybe it's not large enough for me to tell. Also try turning the frequency balance 50/50 and try another test piece.Miller bobcat 225g  - spoolmatic 1Mm250 - 30a spoolMiller spectrum 375Thermal arc 95 Everlast Ex 250As the boiler turns, these are the days of our lives
Reply:Clean or replace the cup.  I see a lot of spatter inside.  If some of it is brazing flux for steel, it could be vaporizing and causing the comtamination.Dynasty 300DXSmith He/Ar gas mixerMM350PHobart Handler 120Smith LW7, MW5, AW1A
Reply:Hmmmmm well I don't know where to start, I did see somethiong that I would changethough.  The picture of the gas lens cup looks like it has STEEL or Braze dingle berries inside it?  When was the last time you used a new cup? I usually don't keep them around long enough to collect metal inside them....Their cheap so install new torch parts...Also you mentioned you sharpen your tungsten sharp.........Well that might work for some small stuff  but I like a long taper with a small flat spot sanded on the end...It just seems to work better with any amperage at all.......It will ball up some with higher weld current.....I ordered some Lanthinated  but it hasn't come in yet so I have been using 1% Zirconiated  which works pretty good for aluminum.....Wiping the filler is a good idea especially if you have any doubts about it's cleanliness.....Some of that looks like a Gas issue like Terry mentioned.......Just replace all the torch parts and think about what you changed since it welded good......Last edited by B_C; 02-10-2013 at 11:43 PM.  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Originally Posted by astaindsoul5446Check all your connections on the torch, check to make sure your gas lens is tight with the back nut loose on the torch. Looks to me like oxygenated atmosphere in shielding zone.
Reply:Where do you read the ball on the argon meter?  Ans: look at the fine print on the glass tube.  It will tell you there. Some are top of ball, others bottom of ball.What's on the back side of the aluminum? Is it possible you are getting contamination from the backside of material, bleeding thru when the puddle gets full penetration?I was also wondering if it could possibly be my SSC controls peddle.  The problem happens much more when I'm coming off the peddle.  That's when the sputtering begins.I'm gonna try it in 4T mode as well.I'm imagining that Argon flow and contamination can actually make the arc sputter.  When I dip, the arc makes all sorts of interesting sounds.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:I think its a gas problem.www.performancealuminumfabrication.com
Reply:Not under warranty.  I bought my machine used.  It had never been plugged in, so basically a brand new older unit that the seller stated was an extra when they bought 10 for a job 5 years ago.I'm thinking if it was the machine, it would be a much worse problem.  I'm wondering if the higher amps on the peddle are producing an arc force that's blowing away contaminats away better than when I come off it.My plan is to recheck all the fittings, change out the cup, and if that doesn't work, install the old 17 torch.  After that, I'm gonna try to use the machine in 4T mode so the peddle will act as a trigger only.Works been nuts and will be for the next two weeks.  I'm gonna try to post some pics ASAP.  Thanks again for hanging in there with me.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:I haven't read the thread but are you cleaning the filler with acetone as well as a Scotchbrite pad? Might be worth a try if all else fails.
Reply:Originally Posted by KelvinI haven't read the thread but are you cleaning the filler with acetone as well as a Scotchbrite pad? Might be worth a try if all else fails.
Reply:really hard to imagine a tig machine that welded good before you welded a braze weld now has a problem with aluminum?   Something else has happened with the machine ( Settings your not checking) that makes you think it was the braze weld....Plus your braze weld I would think was DC- right?  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Start from scratch and set every setting involved then try it......  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Brazing was done in DC.  Problem is changing too many variables at once here.I found some clean Aluminum in the shed. I bought a new wire brush, it's concievabe that every old one is contaminated.  Gonna change out the cup tonight and give it a whirl I hope.Strange thing about cleaning aluminum.  Before having this problem and with current TA machine and Dynasty, I could weld non wire brushed and non acetoned Aluminum with ease.  I'd just get a few flecks of black here and there, but a nice bead.  This skin forming is new.  It's really strange that I get the brown skin at the ends of the beads the most when the amps drop.  I just will not get a clean crater.  It has to be a contamination or a gas problem, hat skin can't be magically appearing from nowhere.It's an effort to keep the puddle going.  It actually started to get boring running beads on plate because it becam very easy.  I would experiment with parameters to see how it would effect the bead-like different diameter filler, higher Hz, etc.  Now, I'm doing everything I can to be able to dip in that puddle.I'm also noticing that, for some reason or another, the filler is melting before hitting the puddle.  I used to be able to keep it maybe 1/2" from the arc, slightly higher than the cup, then dip.  Now I need to keep it around an inch away, even if I change the torch angle to zero.  I'm gonna change the stock and cup first and see.  If the problem still exists, the 17 goes back.I have gone over the machine settings a million times already.  .2 sec preflow, 20 hotstart, whatever peak, whatever AC Hz, no pulse, whatever balance and 6.0 post flow.  Those are the only parameters I can set so it's kinda easy.I was really worried it was the machine at first, but it really seems that an AC problem with the machine should be much more severe-more of an all or none.Last edited by Drf255; 02-13-2013 at 05:16 AM.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:You have something going on with your gas coverage.......Don't brush the material and see what you get.....  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Originally Posted by B_CYou have something going on with your gas coverage.......Don't brush the material and see what you get.....
Reply:here's another weird thought: what if your acetone is contaminated?Miller XMT304 CC/CVBernard TIG coolerSSC foot pedal"It's a poor craftsman who blames his tewls toles TOOLS" (!^$#% keyboard)
Reply:I just ran over the whole post and all the replies......After looking at the samples it almost looks like bad gas?  or a leak somewhere letting air in........the ball on the tungsten is clean so gas is getting  that far.......you mention you have gone through all the settings.....and list values from low to high but exactly what are the settings you weld with when it works for you?  have you tried a different bottle of gas yet?  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Originally Posted by keithwinshere's another weird thought: what if your acetone is contaminated?
Reply:Im not familiar with that machine?  Does it have adjustable Amplitude? if so where do you normally run the EN and EP?  Balance, Hertz, and weld current? for AC aluminum test coupons like you show in your pics.....  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Do check your gas supply hoses and connections. Double check the gas flow.Just helped one welder correct a AL welding problem. His welds on cast AL were looking like bird poop. He was using a brand new syncrowave 350. Turned out his gas flow was over 50 cfh. turned him down to 15 and his welds smoothed out.Too much gas flow will pull air into the arc at the cup. Some times you get yellow deposits on the cup. The arc should be smooth and quite. almost no noise in DC and just the switching noise in AC. Any loud noise or the arc moving around could indicate a high rate of gas flow, air leaking into the gas lines, or welding in a draft.  Air getting into the arc some how. You may have to leak test from the regulator to the torch cup.Seal the torch end. tap foot control to turn on gas.power down welder and spray leak find.
Reply:Ok.  No amplitude adjustment. I'm thoroughly confused.Tonight I used the new SS brush and didn't use it, no change.I cleaned the metal and filler with acetone from two containers, no change.I lifted the machine off the bench so possible the tweco connector with the water feed might not arc to the bench intermittently.   No change. I changed the cup, the tungsten the torch out. No changeI ran the gas to 25 psi-it made it worse.The arc is ok, but it intermittently "pops and sputters" away from the normal musical AC sound.  It makes it hard to add rod easily.  Without some experience, id probably not be able to run a bead.Here's the other odd part, when it sputters, the filler rod will suddenly ball up and oxidize.  I cannot se where air could be getting in.  I may have bad gas.  Both bottles were filled at the same place where I got bad argon before.I'm losing it a bit.  Gotta go to sleep now.  Been trying for two hours.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:25 cfh, not psi.  The gas line looks and is new.  No nicks or cuts in it.  I have an extra and will change that out tonight.It's not the torch letting air in, because I changed to my old 17 that worked and had the same sputter.I had a bad bottle of gas in the past.  I had bead problems continually, not popping at times.  It would also leave residue in the frosting on a clean piece of aluminum which this does not.  I also believe this started to happen at the end of the same gas that worked fine with the other beads.When I started running beads on the clean metal, I thought my problems were over at first.  About 4" into the first bead, the popping began.  Then the puddle gets disturbed and freezes and the filler rod will ball.I'm wondering if my machine is having a switching issue.  I'm thinking no since if it did, I don't think it would be able to switch 150 times a second at times and then not.  My machine has maybe 10 hours of arc time on it max.  It TIGs completely fine and smooth in DC on steel with the same setup.  Perplexed.Last edited by Drf255; 02-14-2013 at 05:02 AM.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Originally Posted by B_CIm not familiar with that machine?  Does it have adjustable Amplitude? if so where do you normally run the EN and EP?  Balance, Hertz, and weld current? for AC aluminum test coupons like you show in your pics.....
Reply:TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:It's gotta be the gas.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:I also have to check the internal lines in the machine.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:I had something very similar a few months back in March. Picked a new tank up and even some steel welds went to hell. Aluminum became a lost cause with no chance of getting rid of the oxide layer and black crud forming constantly. I even went and swapped tanks to have it happen again, although not as bad. The third tank lit up just fine....go figure. I assume airgas must've had some  fool on the fill line that herpderped and contaminated a whole bevvy of argon tanks :/Wouldn't hurt to check machine plummbing either as you mentioned.HTP Invertig 221-DV -- get's dragged everywhere.Syncro 200 -- "The Boat Anchor" at the lab.Lincoln 125 MIG
Reply:Are you using Strap aluminum you get at the Hardware store?  Have one of your buddies that welds come and weld with your machine and try 100 Htz.....  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock