Bad day in the triailer shop..mig aluminum

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Once again it happens.  We go day after day welding aluminum trailers with no problems. Nice clean welds on even marginaly clean material. Then bam, problems especially over head and in corners.MillerMatic 180Spoolmate 1004043  .035 wirefresh Argonnew tips25 on regulator or 20cfm on my Tig flowmeter.Welding a medium sized trailer frame built of 6061-T6 structrual aluminum channel 5 x 1 3/4 x 3/16 and adding 5052-H32 x 3/16" aluminum sheet flooring.  New stock.The flooring has to be welded overhead.  Problem....some welds are very good.  Mig like Tig if you will.  Welds are 1 1/2" long 6-9" apart depending on length of joint. Tight fit, lap seam.  At any point it can bubble, glob and generally look like crap with lots of black. A real mess.I tried both the standard regulator meter and my Dual output Tig flow meter same problem.Now cleaning the aluminum material is probably minimal as done in most shops.  I give a good acetone wipe down to both the top of the frame and the sheets as we set them up.  Vertical and flat welds are generally pretty good. At first we thought maybe the gas hose was leaking so we installed a new one and purge it before trying it again.  Welded great on the flat.  Welded nice vertical up.  Welded nice on overhead test piece.Then I went back under the trailer and went after the floor to frame welds again.  ( scuffed with clean wire brush just to make sure) I did about 6 feet ( skip welds) and as I approaced the corner...same crappy weld then it did the same right in the middle of the skip welds.  We went back and tried some test welds varing the gas flow and it didn't seem to matter as long as the gas was flowing 10-15 or better.  Sure cranking it way up it blew the puddle around but otherwise the gas flow doesn't seem to be the problem.The aluminum sheet has a finish that is very smooth and hard.  Like it has been rolled heavily.  When Tig welding this material I clean it with acetone then chamfer the edges and scuff the surface with a stainless brush.  this finish is like "bark" on HRS. This gives a nice weld on the fabricated parts.  If you don't clean this very well it is difficult to get a clean weld.....small black pits and spots.  We see this on tread plate too.Once in while if we get material in while it is raining it gets wet. If stacked on top of other aluminum material a browish gray oxide forms overnight which is very hard to remove.  It really can't be welded without serious cleaning so we take precautions to prevent this.Unfortunately we got one piece of 2 x 4 x 1/8 that already had some of this.  I had previously cleaned this off so this wasn't the problem as I had welded some of this in the frame.  However when welding the flooring I had problems with this as well as clean 2 x 3 x 1/4"  new angle and the 5" channel.I also tried +/- on the power setting and had the same results.  You have to use enough power or the weld is not sound besides it still bubbles and looks like crap.My boss is about fit to be tied because I spend so much time cleaning but I have very little after cleanup and welds are very good and sound.(if this was my own trailer I'd crank the Syncrowave up and Tig weld the whole thing. No post weld cleanup at all.)  haha I know pictures would be worth a 1k words but I didn't have my camera.HelpWhat am I missing here.???Thanks
Reply:is it possible that your wire might be contaminated? like a grease spot on the spool and it just happens to end up in the corners? Could also be gas turbulence causing issues
Reply:From the way you state all the guidelines in getting a good joint, everything points to either gas or "dust" residue. I mean dust being very broad as in grease, sander dust, water, contaminated wire brush, but is hit or miss.What about the gas connector on the gun. Since it usually happens in the corners, maybe it is lose/cracked there. Do you have a different spool gun to use? Did it all start when you changed your argon out?When setting up the frame, does the corner of the floor plate sit on the concrete and grab unwanted things?A bad pair of dirty gloves?
Reply:might sound stupid but there wasnt a breeze blowing in was there?
Reply:Thanks for all the replies.  Had another bad day...even worse than yesterday.I'll hit the comments here.A breeze...we do have an overhead heater and as an experiment I tried welding a few beads on a piece of scrap from the floor plate right in the draft of the heater.  Surprisingly I was able to weld in the flat without problems.  So I think there is sufficient gas flow.Actually the problem is under the trailer welding overhead.  There is no draft there.Gas turbulence...I set up a test piece of 5" channels and a scrap of the new floorplate with a corner weld.  I clamped these parts on the edge of the new trailer chassis so I could do an overhead weld on them.  I turned the gas flow to 40 and made a couple welds then turned it down to 20 and the welds were good in both cases.  I settled on 30 being a good starting point.  Seems ok.Ok the dust thing is interesting......I had wiped and cleaned with acetone, a 20 foot length right before I went home yesterday.  When I came in today I wiped the "down side" of the floor plates with acetone and set them in place.  I added clamps and weights to hold them in place and rolled under the trailer.  I welded this entire section without a single problem.  Every weld is "mig like tig" .  Probem solved me thinks....then I added a couple more sheets cleaned and the problems began seriously.  I think for 2 hours I may have made 3 welds in a row without goose crap or burn backs.  Good thing the boss was out chasing parts as I was in no condition to be around anyone. haha laugh now..if wasn't so frunny then.So again I started micro searching.  One sheet remained on the pile so I put it on the frame as is.  I could see fine aluminum dust from grinding. (we use flap wheels for aluminum) all over the sheet and frame area for it.  I clamped it down and tried a few welds.  Junk junk.  So I pealed it up and ground off the garbage and wiped it all down with acetone and set it up again.   The entire sheet welded perfect.  So the dust issue is very valid.  It appears that wiping down with acetone before assembly and welding is necessary.  Now, I have repaired a number of trailers this year that were production made.  these had broken welds, cracks in tubes and channels and flooring broken loose.  Many welds were split down the middle or simply pulled away from the base metal.  Poor welding for sure.  Many are vertical down welds with very concave beads and obvious large gaps were bridged.  I carefully chamfer all weld edges and try for excellent fits just like my TIG welds.  These frames we do are 5" channel 5/16 web and 1/4" thick angles so they are heavy stuff.  You  need lots of power to get a good weld.  Laying on your back welding overhead or scooting around on my lowrider rollaround is a real challenge.The gas connection is good. I actually cut off about a foot that was questionable yesterday.  No change.I don't have another spoolgun. sorry.The wire is fresh.  I've used 16 spools of wire in the last 2 weeks.  2 today.  I don't use my gloves to handle the wirespools and my hands are so dried and cracked that they probably would make good sponges.  haha  I treat the mig gun like my TIG  welder which is my friend.The aluminum does not sit on the concrete floor.  We unload it from the truck onto wood sawhorses.  If it gets wet we immediately wipe it down.  It does come in very dirty sometimes but it gets cleaned in this case.The trailer chassis is built on 36 inch custom jack stands.Gloves....I have nice leather gloves for handling the sheets.  My welding gloves only hold the spoolgun.  got new ones today as I spilled some acetone on them and one caught on fire and toasted it.  Not good...I was careless.   .Argon...no, this probem has plagued us off and on for a long time but came to head yesterday.  My boss is not one to chase a problem like this as he really is not the best welder and writes it off to his skill level.  I do take pride in what I do and constantly try to improve.  That's why I'm here.The boss is looking at a new spool gun and possibly a newer machine to be dedicated to aluminum since we are donig more and more all aluminum trailers.Well I have a little bit left on this trailer for Monday.So far it seems that the micro dust is at least some of the problem and acetone cleaning is worthwhile.Ironically the last trailer I did there was very few problems.  At some point I ran out of wire spools of 4043.  there was some 5356 so I used it.  We previously had had problems with this stuff but this time it worked great.  So possibly it may be better to use the 5356 on this floor plate as it is 5052 material being welded to 6061.  I have some new spools of 5356 ordered so I'll be able to try them Monday.So until then thnks for the help.
Reply:You might want to come up with an innovative way to "flip" the trailer over to avoid welding on your back.  It might seem complicated, but in the long run it might save a lot of time and effort.  I hate overhead welding and avoid it whenever possible.Miller Syncrowave 350Millermatic 252/ 30A spoolgunMiller Bobcat 225g w/ 3545 spoolgunLincoln PowerArc4000Lincoln 175 Mig  Lincoln 135 Mig Everlast 250EX TigCentury ac/dc 230 amp stickVictor O/AHypertherm 1000 plasma
Reply:Its a money making machine so a dedicated aluminum mig with more power sounds like a good idea..  possibly a push pull too if u do lots of out of position work,  check with Shovelon for a machine recommendation.   I know he does a ton of Al work and a dedicated miller Al mig setupTiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:We usually do flip the chassis over after the initial weld up however it is very easy to get a warp or twist or an unwanted arch in an aluminum trailer. Most of the time it is just to install the running gear and axels.  Granted it is easier to weld flat but I have a couple of rollarounds built at different heights so getting myself comfortable is not to hard.In this case the 3/16" deck plate is butted up tightly and a small arch is built into the trailer.  Not all are done this way however.  It just depends on how the load is to be applied.  I do stress analysis of these on my computer so we can come up with weight and load ratings.  It is a bit complicated but effective.  It would have been very difficult to load this trailer inverted. It's not impossible to do overhead.  Usually I have no trouble at all.  We do stainless steel food trailers occasionally and these are also welded right side up.  So being able to weld overhead is a must.  I'm actually comfortable with it most of the time but the last 2 days have really been testy to say the least.  If nothing else it points up to nothing is easy and you have to pay attention to details all the time.  It sure helps to have 25 yr of engineering background.  I hate to admit that this one has me stumped.  The hit and miss part of it really bothers me.  I know of a couple of other trailer shops in the area that do 0 cleaning. If it gets blown off they are doing extra work.  I've also fixed a bunch of their stuff and it is a real mess.The big 53 foot race car trailer that I'm background involved with is a case in point. It is all aluminum semi trailer style.   It doesn't have too many miles on it and the whole front end over the 5th wheel is cracked and broken.  The side skin has separated over 2" all the way to the roof.  The entire living quarters will have to be removed just to get at the insides.  The driver is afraid to take it to the repair shop for fear that it will break off.  I really don't want to get involved with it as it is beyond the truck shop to repair.  There just is not the welding or fab equipment to do the job.  The welds on this trailer are attrocious for a larger trailer mfg co.I sure apprediate the comments.  It really helps as it is easy to miss something or even disregard something as not important.
Reply:Undo your drive rolls, pull the trigger and move the gun around listening for gas flow. Sounds to me like your gun has an internal leak or pinched gas connection. It pops up when you get a particular gun angle.
Reply:Thanks Yeller.  I'll do it first thing Monday and report. I have another smaller frame to do and I don't need another week like the last one.  haha
Reply:Do you always use .035"?  I would think that might be pushing the limits on a 180 and a 100 spool gun, maybe not.  I would think .030 or less would run better.  I don't have a lot of spool gun experience, I just know on my older lincoln SP 200 I switched to .030 in the middle of a dock repair and it seemed to flow better.
Reply:When I sand down aluminum parts, just before welding, I use my air nozzle to blow anything else out that I can't get to after the part has been tacked and no other way to get in close. Just have to make sure you have a good water filter on it for clean dry air.
Reply:Sounds like water or acetone impregnation could be a culprit. If the porous surface is not dried out, it could act like that. I don't know how the plate was sheared, but if oils from the blade folded into the edge, that is another area of concern.I thought I saw that you weld overhead on a lap seam. Twas me I would run 75%argon/25% helium, and 5356 like you are trying. Both combined burn in a little hotter.I have to commend you for doing this on your 180 with a spoolgun. I did the spoolgun routine on my MillerMatic200, and it was difficult for me. In fact maybe I will fire it up again for old times sake.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:SS wire wheel, I like to run 20cfm on the flow meter. You can also try a helium blend. Being that our welding over head and argon is heavier than air, it sinks. The helium blend requires less voltage input, to produce the same welds as argon. I personally just like a helium blend on aluminum spool gun.Just my $.02Miller bobcat 225g  - spoolmatic 1Mm250 - 30a spoolMiller spectrum 375Thermal arc 95 Everlast Ex 250As the boiler turns, these are the days of our lives
Reply:+ 1 with shovelon, could be water also so a touch of preheat wouldn't hurt anything.Miller bobcat 225g  - spoolmatic 1Mm250 - 30a spoolMiller spectrum 375Thermal arc 95 Everlast Ex 250As the boiler turns, these are the days of our lives
Reply:Today I took the wire spool out of the gun and left alum wire in the tip back to the rollers.  I triggered it and twisted it all around....seems ok.  I also tried positioning it similar to what I use over head and it still seems to work fine.BTW the gun is a 3035 not a 100 so just a little bit larger. Also the welder is a Miller 185 My mistake for guessing when I got here.  Not much difference.I did get a spool of 5356 to day but it didn't arrive untill just before I went home.  I'll try it first thing in the morning.  My boss had lots of problems with 5356 a long time ago so he wants me to use 4043.  Funny thing is that while welding this trailer there was a spool of 5356 on the shelf and I used it without noticing it.  I must have loaded it under the trailer where it was relatively dark.  I used the whole thing up and really did not notice it.Egde condition..I'll look tomorrow but I'm pretty sure there were both sheared and sawn edges.  We use carbide saws a lot so cuts are quite clean.  I would not doubt there could be a dirty sheared edge however.  The place that does our shearing doesn't know what oil is but they sure can find the dirt.    I never use a sheared edge when TIG welding.Wire size....there is no way I could use smaller wire.  I'm nearly at the max speed already.  If anything I'll try .045 tips to help with the burn back problems. The Argon He mix is interesting.  I'll have to check into this.  I'd even like to try this TIG although I really don't do a lot of thick aluminum with the Tig. 1/4 inch is about it.Pre heat.....since it is rather cool in the shop especially near the floor it is worth trying.  If nothing else it would help drying off any water.While these trailers are not production line items we are under the gun to get them done on time so we can't spend a lot of unnessary time.  It's really painfull when you have to fix bad welds however.  I don't like it at all as it makes me look bad too.An interesting thing happens during the day with the AC power.  I start at 9:am and the AC power seems what I call "true"  It stays this way untill about 1m then it drops off a little.  Then about 3:00 pm it really takes a dive untill well after 4:30 pm.  If you only weld off and on you would not really notice it but when you are nearly continuously welding you sure can see it in the welds. I usually have to make about "+/-5" adjustment on the wire feed.  I worked a 2nd shift production TIG welding operation and it was very pronounced there.  I only have a couple of small items to finish but they are critical appearance welds so I'm hoping it goes well tomorrow.  There are cut as well as sheared edges and 6061 and 5052 plate so it will be very much like the problem senario.  I'll clean and try a little preheat just to make sure.I want to thank everyone for the suggestions and help.  Hopefully I came to a difinitive  conclusion on this.We talked more today about getting a new welder dedicated to aluminum.
Reply:Originally Posted by bentwingsToday I took the wire spool out of the gun and left alum wire in the tip back to the rollers.  I triggered it and twisted it all around....seems ok.  I also tried positioning it similar to what I use over head and it still seems to work fine.BTW the gun is a 3035 not a 100 so just a little bit larger. Also the welder is a Miller 185 My mistake for guessing when I got here.  Not much difference.I did get a spool of 5356 to day but it didn't arrive untill just before I went home.  I'll try it first thing in the morning.  My boss had lots of problems with 5356 a long time ago so he wants me to use 4043.  Funny thing is that while welding this trailer there was a spool of 5356 on the shelf and I used it without noticing it.  I must have loaded it under the trailer where it was relatively dark.  I used the whole thing up and really did not notice it.Egde condition..I'll look tomorrow but I'm pretty sure there were both sheared and sawn edges.  We use carbide saws a lot so cuts are quite clean.  I would not doubt there could be a dirty sheared edge however.  The place that does our shearing doesn't know what oil is but they sure can find the dirt.    I never use a sheared edge when TIG welding.Wire size....there is no way I could use smaller wire.  I'm nearly at the max speed already.  If anything I'll try .045 tips to help with the burn back problems. The Argon He mix is interesting.  I'll have to check into this.  I'd even like to try this TIG although I really don't do a lot of thick aluminum with the Tig. 1/4 inch is about it.Pre heat.....since it is rather cool in the shop especially near the floor it is worth trying.  If nothing else it would help drying off any water.While these trailers are not production line items we are under the gun to get them done on time so we can't spend a lot of unnessary time.  It's really painfull when you have to fix bad welds however.  I don't like it at all as it makes me look bad too.An interesting thing happens during the day with the AC power.  I start at 9:am and the AC power seems what I call "true"  It stays this way untill about 1m then it drops off a little.  Then about 3:00 pm it really takes a dive untill well after 4:30 pm.  If you only weld off and on you would not really notice it but when you are nearly continuously welding you sure can see it in the welds. I usually have to make about "+/-5" adjustment on the wire feed.  I worked a 2nd shift production TIG welding operation and it was very pronounced there.  I only have a couple of small items to finish but they are critical appearance welds so I'm hoping it goes well tomorrow.  There are cut as well as sheared edges and 6061 and 5052 plate so it will be very much like the problem senario.  I'll clean and try a little preheat just to make sure.I want to thank everyone for the suggestions and help.  Hopefully I came to a difinitive  conclusion on this.We talked more today about getting a new welder dedicated to aluminum.
Reply:As before, I don't really know anything but I enjoy trouble-shooting!It keeps sounding like gas to me: any chance you're kinking your gas line as you stretch the lines, or something like that? Or that there's a leak that's exacerbated in some instant? That the heat is building up in some way that causes this (I can't imagine that one)?One goal, instead of fixing the problem, is duplicating it full-time: it's the intermittent stuff that kills you. So try kinking the gas line, or adding some water, or whatever, and see how similar it is to what you're getting. See if you can figure out any situation in which the problem always occurs... could a bent wire feed line change your feed rate or otherwise screw up your wire, just as you stretch your lines? Since you've gone through a bunch of roles of wire, that seems unlikely, and since it's intermittent on what sounds like a uniformly cleaned substrate, that sounds unlikely to me (unless there's an ongoing source of contamination that you're missing, and that's spraying certain areas only: someone grinding steel nearby? Spray painting? Pranking you?). So I come back to the lines, or maybe the gun... Anyway, good luck.Miller XMT304 CC/CVBernard TIG coolerSSC foot pedal"It's a poor craftsman who blames his tewls toles TOOLS" (!^$#% keyboard)
Reply:I hope you don't work for Reitnauer.....
Reply:sorry for posting this in your thread but i am having problems while welding aluminum with my spoolmatic 30a. i am running 4043 wire and everytime i tack something it gets covered in black and also sometimes it makes good welds other times it doesnt, i clean with a stainless wire brush dedicated to aluminum. i am running it off my trailblazer 275 with the wc24 and straight argon around 20cfh. getting burn back everytime i stop welding no matter what length stick out i run and my spoolgun is making some very loud, annoying whistling sound when im welding, almost sure it sounds like the gas coming out, does not do this when i pull the trigger and feed wire without welding. i have done a bunch of spoolgun work in doors on a millermatic 252 and never had these problems. any help would be appreciated!
Reply:Originally Posted by richTsorry for posting this in your thread but i am having problems while welding aluminum with my spoolmatic 30a. i am running 4043 wire and everytime i tack something it gets covered in black and also sometimes it makes good welds other times it doesnt, i clean with a stainless wire brush dedicated to aluminum. i am running it off my trailblazer 275 with the wc24 and straight argon around 20cfh. getting burn back everytime i stop welding no matter what length stick out i run and my spoolgun is making some very loud, annoying whistling sound when im welding, almost sure it sounds like the gas coming out, does not do this when i pull the trigger and feed wire without welding. i have done a bunch of spoolgun work in doors on a millermatic 252 and never had these problems. any help would be appreciated!
Reply:my LWS recommended me the 4043 for a general purpose wire for repairs on trailers and such as im doing. material ive been working on is from 1/8-1/4. how should i end my welds your saying? stop arc and hit it with a quick trigger pull? on say 1/4" material im using between 23-24 volts. do you have an answer to why my gun would be producing the high pitched squeal from the gas nozzle it sounds like. gun is brand new
Reply:Originally Posted by richTmy LWS recommended me the 4043 for a general purpose wire for repairs on trailers and such as im doing. material ive been working on is from 1/8-1/4. how should i end my welds your saying? stop arc and hit it with a quick trigger pull? on say 1/4" material im using between 23-24 volts. do you have an answer to why my gun would be producing the high pitched squeal from the gas nozzle it sounds like. gun is brand new
Reply:im running the spoolgun off a trailblazer 275
Reply:Originally Posted by richTim running the spoolgun off a trailblazer 275i dont know. i just got the tank couple weeks ago. maybe ill try a higher gas flow?
Reply:and 5356 wire
Reply:I dont have any expirence with a TB275 , 30a, and a wc24, but this is what i would ask myself from what youve decribed. everytime i tack something it gets covered in black - with 30a /wc115 a half pull of the trigger will purge the area prior to welding.sometimes it makes good welds other times it dosent- have you tried adjusting the wire run in speed? May help with tacks and starts, I belive the pot is inside the wc24 . i am running it off my trailblazer 275 with the wc24 and straight argon around 20cfh. getting burn back everytime i stop welding - is the wc24 switching the contactor properly? What is the weld voltage set at?my spoolgun is making some very loud, annoying whistling sound when im welding, -Are you welding in spray? It dose make a loud rushing sound, or  the weld voltage may be To highi have done a bunch of spoolgun work in doors on a millermatic 252 and never had these problems. any help would be appreciated- i need to ask are you welding outside?Briggs weldnpower 225/210/cvLn-25 suitcaseMillermatic 130
Reply:yes i realize spray makes a rushing sound but its not like this loud ringing sound im getting. and yes i am outside. thanks for the reply man
Reply:Originally Posted by yeller_twinUndo your drive rolls, pull the trigger and move the gun around listening for gas flow. Sounds to me like your gun has an internal leak or pinched gas connection. It pops up when you get a particular gun angle.
Reply:Well a little bit of update.I took the standard gage style flowmeter off and installed my double flowmeter from my TIG welder.  I was able ro finish all the overhead welds with no more problems.  Then Monday the boss comes in and says  we have to lower the fenders (all aluminum welded.) as he miss measured the height.  They looked too high to me to begin with but he said weld them so I did.  Well long story short we cut them off and trimed them down a bit and rewelded them.  I was still using the TIG flowmeter and the spoolgun worked pretty well.  Not perfect but ok. I didn't get to try the 5356 alum wire as we needed to get started on the stainless steel trailer next in line.  I didn't use the spoolgut on this as we use the machine feeder for SS.  This system is marginal in my mind but I have to admit it worked very well.  I haven't used it for a while and I hit the numbers right on the money the first test weld. I did use the TIG flowmeter again.  I did a bunch of overhead on this trailer too and it worked very well. this is a spray arc at the low end of the spray spectrum.  Vertical up works pretty nice.  I used a bit of back purge since it was available and it really improved the weld quality.It seems that the original gage style flowmeter must be sticking and not flowing the same everytime as it will weld several weld in a row then just go crazy. sometimes it would start bad and go good a couple weld later.  Anyway we have new flowmeter ordered.  The boss also sent one of the spoolguns in to see if it can be rebuilt or repaired. When this comes back the one I have been using will go in.  If they can't be fixed we will get new ones.I had already tried my TIG setup and still had problems so I think there are still issues with the spoolgun itself.  The main issue I see is it feeds at inconsistant rates.  I used it one day this week on some thinner aluminum and while it did ok I had to nurse it along.I have another day of stainless then a a couple days of TIG welding so I'll get some relief using my own welder for a change next  week.I should be able to do some testing with the 5356 when I switch to the TIG stuff..I should have some more info middle of next week.
Reply:I am curious about 5356.  I always thought 4043 was supposed to be a better wire unless you had feeding problems because it was too soft. Are you guy's getting better welds with 5356?  Most of my alumium mig is 6061 tubing and (5053?) plate on marina walkways and dock parts.  Also, same question for tig filler, again I have always bought 4043.
Reply:5356 is a high strength filler and induces aging in the HAZ upon cooling due to strain hardening and induce natural aging of the HAZ. The addition of magnesium and absence of silicon is primarily the reason for the higher strength. For that reason alone I would choose 5356. 5356 is more ductile than 4043 to boot.On a different note, it is a much stiffer wire which drives much smoother than 4043. Hence less feeding issues. It does take some practice and tuning your settings, but I will never go back to 4043. But I have specific reasons to not use 4043.Maxal has come out with a new 4000 series alloy with a slight amount of magnesium and reduced silicone for increased strength. It is their new 4943 alloy. I have in both mig and tig wire and like it alot. So does BC. In fact as soon as I use up my stock of 4043, I will not purchase it again I hope. If you happen to like 4043, give 4943 a try.  http://www.maxal.com/4943_datasheet.pdfLast edited by shovelon; 02-17-2013 at 11:47 AM.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Shovelon, I must be reading your post wrong. You say 5356 "induces aging in the HAZ": I would think that would make the weld weaker, or at least more prone to cracking, because I guess I'm interpreting aging as hardening/embrittling. I guess aging means something different than I thought? I'm about half through "Metals and how to weld them", and I haven't seen the term yet.Miller XMT304 CC/CVBernard TIG coolerSSC foot pedal"It's a poor craftsman who blames his tewls toles TOOLS" (!^$#% keyboard)
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloThis is my thought. You are starving the gas. A couple thoughts on this: #1. You pinch the hose somehow. I can say that this usually happens working odd angles. A new hose assembly is the fix. #2. Very likely, you are running out of gas at the weld point. If welding flat, your argon is pouring down onto the weld. If welding uphill, the argon is falling out of the weld literally. Maybe for upside down welding, try to turn the gas up a bit. I have had issues with this while tigging. And, just last week I was wrestling with this doing some steel. The end of the hose is too soft, and it pinches the gas flow off by 1/2.... which was way too much.Good luck!
Reply:Originally Posted by keithwinsShovelon, I must be reading your post wrong. You say 5356 "induces aging in the HAZ": I would think that would make the weld weaker, or at least more prone to cracking, because I guess I'm interpreting aging as hardening/embrittling. I guess aging means something different than I thought? I'm about half through "Metals and how to weld them", and I haven't seen the term yet.
Reply:Thanks, that makes senseMiller XMT304 CC/CVBernard TIG coolerSSC foot pedal"It's a poor craftsman who blames his tewls toles TOOLS" (!^$#% keyboard)
Reply:I'm going to check into the new wire.  I'm always looking for something better than traditional.  Keeps me from getting old.  hahaI use 5356 for nearly all of my TIG welding now.  I feel it is much stronger but maybe a little less flexible.Here is a good reason why I use 5356 wire.Last year I made a pair of aluminum fuel and oil tanks for the funny car.  They just barely fit in the chassis and essentially had a perimiter of 4130 tubing surrounding them.  I had recommended a much larger vent line on the oil tank than what the crew chief wanted.  He insisted that the 3/4" tube was what everyone else was using.  My comment was that everyone else is wrong.  Burning a piston thru to cause a detonation inside the motor causes a huge amount of gas vapor to vent out the breathers and ultimately to the oil tank.  Burning several pistons at the same time will definitely overload the vent system.  I had already replaced an exploded vent containment vessel a year before in another car.Nobody wants to hear what the "old man" has to say.Long story short the oil tank expanded so much that we had to beat a side of it back in to get both tanks out.  It caved the fuel tank in about 5 inches which means the oil tank expanded that far on one side and partially wrapped itself around the perimiter frame.  These tanks were both made from 5052 welded with 5356 rod.  Material was 1/16" thick.  Neither tank leaked or cracked and believe me the welds were stretched a bunch.  It surprised me that they stayed together.I built a 3003 material .080 thick material tank welded with 4043 back a while ago and it did rupture due to burned pistons.  Again I had recommended larger vents but..........what does "old dad" know.  I've only been around drag racing since the 60's.5356 also allows anodizing without black welds showing.It is much stiffer so I would like to  just try it again in the spool gun.  The puddle seems much more fluid when TIG welding but you just have to learn puddle control.  Well I'll get some more results about med next week.Thanks for all the input.
Reply:threw the cables over my shoulder while welding today and took that high pitched gas ringing away. weight of the cables pulled gas line down enough to pinch the flow off some. laying beautiful beads now!
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonHow do you really know that you are getting 20CFH to your nozzle? I would go up, but that is me. And I do check the flow with one of my many remote flowcheckers. Unclamp the wire drive, and pull the trigger. That reminds me, I need to buy a couple more.
Reply:Originally Posted by richTthrew the cables over my shoulder while welding today and took that high pitched gas ringing away. weight of the cables pulled gas line down enough to pinch the flow off some. laying beautiful beads now!
Reply:Hey Terry I ate a buretto of the roach coach The other day...... Talk about "Bad Gas"  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:4043 and 5356 filler take different voltage-amperage profiles.  They are NOT interchangeable, especially on the 'smaller' welders (pretty much anything less than the start of the big-boy machines, the 250-class machines).Spoolmate3035 can run 0.023 up to 0.035 tips/wire.  No 0.045.  Spoolmate3545 runs 0.030 to 0.047 tips/wire.OK, I looked up the MM185.  It does list that it can use 4043 or 5356 wire (it has enough voltage output to run the 5356).  The MM180 or the other 'smaller' MM machines do not have the voltage output and they list just 4043 wire when welding aluminum (from what I've seen).But since you are running a spoolgun, the higher stiffness of the 5356 compared to the 4043 doesn't really matter.  4043 is just fine for welding 6061 (5356 is OK too).When welding aluminum, clean-clean-clean is even more important than when welding mild steel.http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...g-wire-metals/It really sounds like you are running into some 'crud' on the parent metal and that is just making a mess of your weld attempts.Clean of any dust, dirt, grease, oil, paint, water, oxides (this is a big one!! You already mentioned that if your aluminum plates get wet they get a gray oxide on them.  Yup, you can't weld oxide, you weld metal).Wipe the metal down with the acetone, then remove the oxide layer with a stainless steel brush (used only for aluminum!!!), then wipe again with the acetone.  Make sure the aluminum is clean and dry (no water or acetone on it!).  And then weld it.Cleaned it the day before and didn't get to welding that section yet?  Clean it again before welding.And if the incoming AC power is dropping off on you over the day, that can have a big effect on your welds!Also, you might be twisting/bending the lines -just- enough that you mess with the gas flow.  Boom, instant weld problem.Last edited by MoonRise; 02-19-2013 at 03:48 PM.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Thanks for the tech info on machines and spool guns.I think you are right on the dirty material.  We use all new material, no salvage stuff.  However just the normal dust and dirt does accumulate on the material when is is stored.I try to clean this as well as possible but I have to admit to sometimes not being too fastidiuous.I did come across something we do that can definitely cause probems.  We do a lot of cutting of tubing and structurals with carbide saws.  These are often dressed with a "saw wax" to prevent galling.  I did a test with a 5 x 2 x 5/16 web channel and a 2 x 2 1/4" angle fresh cut using saw wax on both parts.  I did a verticle up weld to joint the 2 5 x 2 then finished with an overhead on the 2" angle.  The overhead was a probem and it seemed that a tiny chunk of saw wax melted into the joint and caused a massive mess. so I think I getting closer to some of our problems.  This saw wax is devistating to welds both mig and tig.Dirt on the material and the cutting process.I tried to clean this saw wax with acetone and it doesn't even soften it.  Wax and grease remover gets to it very well however.  Then hit it with acetone and ss brush.  These test parts weled just fine.Today I also tried welding a fresh sheared 1/4" plate that had not been cleaned at all to a clean 5 x 2 channel.  There were mixed good and lousy  welds so again clenaing is necessary on sheared material.  I'm pretty fussy with TIG welding in regards to cleaning as these welded parts often show and are supposed to be pretty and/ or need to be very sound welds.Looks like we need to change some of our production habits and get cleaner.  Hate to admit it but we are pigs I guess.  hahaWe do a lot of repair work on other trailers and I get to see what other companies are doing.  Very few spend any time at all on cleaning material.  They simply do not weld in corners or where they can get in trouble.  That's why we get to repair their broken welds and joints. I had an enclosed trailer in last summer that the entire back door frame broke out.  It also had nearly every joint between the crosmemvbers and the perimiter frame broken.  What a mess.  There were many welds where  there was no penetration at all and the welds just pealed off the base metal.Tomorrow I hope to give a good test to the 5356 wire.