Hard Surfacing Rods

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I'm using a 225 AC only stick machine and I occasionally hard surface agricultural shovels ( cultivators, deep tillers etc.) so they will last longer in our rocky clay soils, and yes, it makes a difference.  In the past I have used 1/8" N700E's from Castolin Eutectic (honest, it's spelled that way) and 5/32 31's from Stoody. Don't ask me how they number these rods because I can't figure it out either. I prefer the N700E's, but the Stoody's have worked well too... they just seem to like more amps (usually around 170). I haven't bought any for a couple years and I don't remember the exact cost, but I remember thinking they were pretty pricey. Just wondering if anyone has a low cost source for some that work well. Thoughts?250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:I bet you have the same Sears AC stick welder as me.I have seen some people use 8018, 9018 and 10018 electrode as hard facing rod.I have used U.S. forge rods, on AC they ran a lot like 7014. I picked up 10 pounds of stoodys but have not had a chance to use them.The stoodys are pretty cheap compared to other hard face rods and I have been told that is what the farmers around here use and I know most all of them have old AC machines.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:I ran the Stoody 5/32 size for several years topping 7014 on ground engaging tools at the mines. Good stuff and I was running about 180 amperes leaving a wide, smooth bead. I never purchased them as they were mandated and supplied by the mines. I'm interested in cost also. Stoody is no longer around here that I know of.SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:I tend to use the Forney more than the Sears for jobs where I'm running a long time. For some reason the Sears likes to trip breakers moreso than the Forney, and the Forney is in the shed I use most for ag repairs. I did a Google search and Stoody are still listed on both the Praxair and Victor sites so they must still be out there. The ones I got came from a job site my brother was at so I'd have to do some calling to see who can get them out here. Some old Weldingweb threads came up as well, and they seem to have a decent reputation. I found the rods, but they say to call for prices. According to the site I can get them through Acklands... can't say that's sounding good for low prices. Should I be using my MIG instead? I've never seen anyone do it before so I never really thought about it. It would put a lot less heat into the shovels...Last edited by whtbaron; 11-09-2014 at 09:53 PM.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Do a Google search for Stoody rods and lots of hits will come up. Apparently, they are owned by Victor.I use Stoody 31 to hardface just about anything on the farm that contacts the ground. Even used it on a neighbor's trencher teeth with excellent results...it was more of an impact application with the amount of rocks we have in the soil.5/16" seems to run perfectly on 180A with my DC machine. Very smooth results with lots of smoke. Only problem is the rod starts to glow red about halfway through the stick. I just give it a rest for a while and then finish up the rod.I have run the 31 on an AC-only Lincoln buzzbox and it seems to work just as well. A bit more popping and sputtering but overall the results were fine.Lincoln AC buzzboxLincoln AC/DC buzzboxHobart 125EZ (110V flux-core)Everlast PA200 (stick)Everlast PA300 (stick)Everlast PP70 (plasma cutter)O/A outfitSeveral Metabo, Bosch, HF grinders set up differentlyMisc tools
Reply:Originally Posted by whtbaronI tend to use the Forney more than the Sears for jobs where I'm running a long time. For some reason the Sears likes to trip breakers moreso than the Forney, and the Forney is in the shed I use most for ag repairs. I did a Google search and Stoody are still listed on both the Praxair and Victor sites so they must still be out there. The ones I got came from a job site my brother was at so I'd have to do some calling to see who can get them out here. Some old Weldingweb threads came up as well, and they seem to have a decent reputation. I found the rods, but they say to call for prices. According to the site I can get them through Acklands... can't say that's sounding good for low prices. Should I be using my MIG instead? I've never seen anyone do it before so I never really thought about it. It would put a lot less heat into the shovels...
Reply:I have used stainless rod for hard surface before. Probably not the best for impact stuff but it wears pretty well.
Reply:Ok... I was looking around and wasn't finding much. Thirty pounds might last me a few years, but the gas would probably add to the cost over what I'm already doing with the stick. I've got used to working on 2 or 3 shovels at a time and shifting around every 3 inches or so to avoid heating them too much. I'm also careful not to "drive" the heat down to the point or the entire pointed end will snap off. I've used the Stoody 31, and I see they also list a 35... am I using the right product for the job I am doing? Wouldn't stainless rod be more expensive?250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:I hard surface shovelers when I have time I use mig self shielded had some Hobart I think then got some lincoln I liked the lincoln better it takes more amps than you would think its .035 wire . I think it was like $300. For 25 pounds .Here is what I do I also put some on the top pointGood luck
Reply:If I remember correctly I used the "35" mostly as I was building up cutting edges and the "31" was used on impact based machinery like the pulverizing equipment.SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:I run along the edge of the wings as pictured, and then run a single bead back from the tip top and bottom for about 1 1/2" ... seems to work ok.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Mckay also makes hardfacing rods...i have never priced them....i make the people i'm working for buy hardfacing rodsBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:lol...I'd complain to my boss, but I'm already tired of hearing complaints. Those N700E's are all I've seen stocked on the local shelves, so it's a bit of an eye opener to see what really is out there.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Originally Posted by killdozerd11Mckay also makes hardfacing rods...i have never priced them....i make the people i'm working for buy hardfacing rods
Reply:So if I was looking for 1/8 or 5/32 rods for this job, which Mckay alloy would you suggest I price for this job? ...assuming I can get them around here.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:This is the stuff we run on all of the slopemaster pans and the excavator buckets at the state, I means its a little bit of a sticker shock but I've seen the pans break off and the excavators replaced before this stuff wore out. If the customer is paying, and you never want to see them again for that particular job, use Cronatron hahahttp://www.lawsonproducts.com/Cronat...rode/CW1918.lpMiller Spoolmate 200 w/t S-52 WirefeederMM 211'09 Miller Trailblazer 302
Reply:Originally Posted by Ian DuffinThis is the stuff we run on all of the slopemaster pans and the excavator buckets at the state, I means its a little bit of a sticker shock but I've seen the pans break off and the excavators replaced before this stuff wore out. If the customer is paying, and you never want to see them again for that particular job, use Cronatron hahahttp://www.lawsonproducts.com/Cronat...rode/CW1918.lp
Reply:If it says Lawson , bend over. I'm sure its a good product but that's insane. Probably cheaper to replace parts instead of using that. I have used Lincoln and McKay with good luck. I have some large stainless rod that I got for cheap that works well for abrasion.
Reply:That makes the $300 MIG wire look cheap, and actually considering how long a 25lb roll of MIG wire lasts me, it might not be a bad alternative. To be honest, I haven't used the MIG enough yet to have a lot of confidence in it. Old habits die hard...A new set of shovels runs around $500 and I doubt that I can extend the life by more than a third.Last edited by whtbaron; 11-11-2014 at 10:26 AM.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...ature/C110.pdf  This will give you a listing.  I find that special prices from "special" companies are rather high.  Personally I don't trust snake oil salesmen. Lincoln also has a hardfacing guide that describes where to put your hardfacing.  If I find it I will post link.  It was available as a pdf file.  With abrasive problems you want one side of an edge hard and the other side hard so that the soft side wears away leaving a knife edge.  If you hardsurface all over the point just dulls and the cutting force goes up increasing required power and fuel consumption.  Also hardfacing should go on cold.  High amperages melt into the parent metal diluting the weld metal.  Generally hardfacing beads should not look flat and pretty.
Reply:Im sure there is a cheaper place to buy the chronatron rod, i just haven't found it. as i said, i don't pay for it, the state buys it so price is no issue, maybe one of the 10lb boxes can fall off a truck and a few of those pounds can be shipped out! Miller Spoolmate 200 w/t S-52 WirefeederMM 211'09 Miller Trailblazer 302
Reply:Originally Posted by Ian DuffinIm sure there is a cheaper place to buy the chronatron rod, i just haven't found it. as i said, i don't pay for it, the state buys it so price is no issue, maybe one of the 10lb boxes can fall off a truck and a few of those pounds can be shipped out!
Reply:Originally Posted by GWDWhaaat?! You do know who really pays for it and price IS an issue.
Reply:Was it hard surfaced with chronatron?250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Originally Posted by whtbaronWas it hard surfaced with chronatron?Originally Posted by dmsgdt112BOC offers an extensive range of hardfacing electrodes to suit almost every application. Buy your hardfacing MMA welding electrodes online from BOC today.
Reply:i would personally hard face the top of the sweep as that is what is digging and throwing the dirt.  The bottom will not have as much wear as the top.  I would leave the bottom without hard facing and fill in as needed as it cavitates.
Reply:here's the Lincoln Hardfacing Guide that lotechman referred to:http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...ture/C7710.pdfLincoln SA 200Esab Caddy 160Thermal Arc 201TSMiller Dialarc HFI don't like making plans for the day because then the word "premeditated" gets thrown around the courtroom....