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Decided to build a tornado shelter. We have been just missed 4 or 5 times over the last 3 years by some strong tornadoes.I need advice /help/information. I have a 8 ft diameter x 24 ft long underground fuel tank that has been cleaned out very well. This tank is in very good condition . I plan to bury it about 1 to 2 feet deep(was going to add some horizontal I beam anchors to be covered with dirt and attached to the sides of the tank) with one end exposed. I have cut a basic door in one end of the tank to allow access. My plans are as follows: Install a piece of 4 foot wide vantek/ treated plywood in the floor the entire length of the tank to allow a four foot wide walkway. Then install on each side of the walkway along the wall a bench seat the entire length. I will add a couple of vents in the top with covers and screens to keep out the bugs,snakes, etc. along with some battery powered led lights. I plan on painting the inside white and coating the outside with some tar to slow the rusting process.I have a couple of 4 x8 sheets of 3/8 plate that I want to use to build the door and /or reinforce the area exposed to the outside elements along with providing a bulkhead. I plan to cover the tank with dirt with the exception of the end where the entrance is to be. I want to have this entrance so that it can be entered by older /possible handicap person so I will need possible a 3 ft wide door. I want to use the 3/8 inch plate to also hold the dirt around the end of the tank ie weld the sheets together to form a 8 x8 square and then weld it to the end of the tank. This will allow dirt to fill behind the bulkhead. I could cut the 24 ft long tank in half and construct two shelters but I thought I would have room for my neighbors with the longer tank and it would be less work.The project is something that I hope I never have to use but I think I better get on the ball and get it built. I can post some photos of the tank and the project as it is built.I need your help in designing the door and the locking device. I would appreciate any thoughts, comments or any other constructive criticism. Thanks in advance for all your input. Richey sweet home alabama
Reply:copy a submarine door. simple twist or lever lock that extends multiple pins on the three sides that aren't hinged.make sure you're joints are all greaseable and you should be good to go as far as preventing the lock from freezing open.I would suggest a secondary "escape" door just in case debri blocks the main door. Doesn't need to be as big as the other door. Just something that can allow an able bodied person to go get help or get the stuff blocking the main door out of the way. opens in.you might be better off digging down if your water table isn't super high.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerI would suggest a secondary "escape" door just in case debri blocks the main door. Doesn't need to be as big as the other door. Just something that can allow an able bodied person to go get help or get the stuff blocking the main door out of the way. opens in.
Reply:My own thought would be to K.I.S.S. ... all it needs to do is protect you for 5 minutes in the incredibly rare, maybe once-in-a-lifetime event that a tornado passes over your property.If it were me, I think I would make an open-topped "box" that was big enough to fit the entire family into, and sink it maybe 4 feet into the ground. It doesn't even really need a roof, because even if the tornado passes directly over the box, it still can't "suck you out" like a vacuum cleaner unless air can somehow get into the box from beneath, and if it's sunk in the ground, that can't happen. The wind in a tornado is almost all horizontal, so if you can shield yourself from debris flying horizontally, and prevent air from getting under your body – like in an open topped box or even a shallow ditch – you're usually going to be OK, unless a house lands on top of you.That's what I would do, and save the 3/8" steel for welding tables and armored personnel carriers...Last edited by Kelvin; 05-30-2013 at 05:30 AM.
Reply:if you are gonna be subject to flooding, you gonna need a serious thick concrete pad and serious holddowns..that tank wants to float..
Reply:Great concept! Steam clean the inside of that tank thoroughly! Hydrocarbons from petroleum get absorbed into the metal and are darn near impossible to clean out completely. You don't want an explosive atmosphere, and certainly don't want the occupants to be asphyxiated from sitting in the can for a couple of hours or more. Get the internal atmosphere tested by someone who si qualified and has the appropriate vapor detecting equipment. Once it has been verified as vapor-free then you can set about to making the desired modifications.Make absolutely certain the bottom of the tank is above the high water table level so it can't float up like caskets in flooded cemeteries. But I guess if you are putting into a small hillside with one end exposed then that issue is moot.- MondoMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:I always thought that the only door or one of two doors should be 'open in' so that it couldn't be blocked by debris."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyI always thought that the only door or one of two doors should be 'open in' so that it couldn't be blocked by debris.
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyI always thought that the only door or one of two doors should be 'open in' so that it couldn't be blocked by debris.
Reply:Thanks for the suggestions on the shelter. Keep them coming. richey sweet home alabama
Reply:What do you guys suggest for hinges? What about square tubing for a door frame? richey
Reply:Originally Posted by forhireNever thought about opening in. Looking at the videos I thought it would be nice to make one that could push through or lift debris hydraulically. A hand pump and cylinder could lift an entire house worth of debris.
Reply:I would tie it in to the house electrical and plumbing, make a little half bath area with a toilet and sink.An underground walkway from inside the house to the shelter. (I would bury the whole thing too)A pipe out the top with a sealed chamber, that you can either load up smoke canisters or flares is.(to signal your location if for some reason you can't get out)A CB/HAM radio base unit.Definitely a periscope.A gun cabinet with a shotgun and a rifle, appropriate ammo for each.Food and water storage under the floor like 7A749's picture, deep cycle battery bank, on a tender for power.Board games/puzzles/cards/books.Inflatable mattresses and bedding.Portable OxyFuel cutting torch.Curtains to section off areas inside.(magnets to secure)Obviously overkill for just a tornado, but the zombies.... Have to prepare for the zombies!!
Reply:Originally Posted by Fnord5I would tie it in to the house electrical and plumbing, make a little half bath area with a toilet and sink.An underground walkway from inside the house to the shelter. (I would bury the whole thing too)A pipe out the top with a sealed chamber, that you can either load up smoke canisters or flares is.(to signal your location if for some reason you can't get out)A CB/HAM radio base unit.Definitely a periscope.A gun cabinet with a shotgun and a rifle, appropriate ammo for each.Food and water storage under the floor like 7A749's picture, deep cycle battery bank, on a tender for power.Board games/puzzles/cards/books.Inflatable mattresses and bedding.Portable OxyFuel cutting torch.Curtains to section off areas inside.(magnets to secure)Obviously overkill for just a tornado, but the zombies.... Have to prepare for the zombies!!
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerwell, now we know who's been watching to much Dooms day preppers. lol
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerwell, now we know who's been watching to much Dooms day preppers. lol
Reply:No mention of this yet, an old fashioned hard line telephoneThat swing in door makes sense, no blockage by debris and can't be sucked open either.If you have to wait an hour or two for a storm to pass, lights, soft chairs, bed, warm blankets or clothes
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749If I was gonna build one, I would go hog wild.....Just 'cause I could When we eventually move out of state, where we plan on going does have risk of tornadoes.I plan on putting something in, just in case. Yeah, if you got a wicked tank to make a shelter out of, go for it. Prolly lots of stuff online about it.This looks cool..... IMHO of course
Reply:Your fuel tank should work but I'd coat the interior with epoxy paint to seal it from out-gassing.Always thought a cheap conex container would make a good bunker. Maybe even a concrete or metal culvert. Or a salvaged steel boat hull.Make the vent an inverted trap whose opening is well off the ground.
Reply:How about just get in the car and drive away......really fast?????Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller 625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:I always figured a precast concrete septic tank would be fast and easy.Even has a nice big hole in the top. Just have to make a door.For single individuals, a three foot diameter pipe buried vertical. Put in a ladder and hatch - done.Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Was in the April 2011 tornadoes in North Alabama. Shelter is 100% good! Here is what that experience taught me. (Might I add that "hard way" lessons stick with me. I am just bummed how seldomly I seem to get an "easy way" lesson to learn from.)Dry/canned goods. We were most affected by how long basic stuff like electricity took to restore. We were off grid for two weeks! In today's world the part that was a mind bender for most folks was that Wal-Mart was also off grid for two weeks! That would have put us in the shelter far longer than the duration of the storm if the house had taken a header.In the back of your shelter, set up a locker. A place to store things you might need.Plus one on the door concerns. Make sure you can unlock/operate/open/unhinge/remove the door from inside. While a locked door is ideal for most of the non-emergency time, consider how bad it would suck to be fumbling for a key when its a half second from too late.Some basic tools to support "self recovery" would be ideal for the locker. Crow bar, hammer, adjustable wrench, hand saw... etc. Nothing crazy or exotic, unless you just gotta. In addition to HAM/CB, toss a cell phone and/or an old ma bell phone in the locker. Even if your house is toast and cell coverage is dark, you might be able to track down a phone line to tap into and that would put you closer to 911.Camp stove/light and some camp propane cylinders to fuel them. Some basic camp cookware. Even if you are in the middle of a crater, lets be optimistic. Survivors gotta eat.A source for water. Sealed containers can last many moons. Be careful about something like a milk jug re-purposed. They are not sealed and unsavory stuff can creep in. A couple of cases of bottled water could make a lot of difference.If there are any large trees near the site you intend to use, consider them carefully. A large tree could squash your tank like a beer can.Pay close attention to the geology and contour of the ground around your shelter site. Anything that can act to snag flying debris has the potential to do just that. Rock overhangs, out buildings, trenches/ditches, etc.Often overlooked is practice. When you get everything set, get you and yours together and actually go through the motions. Don't forget things like what the kids ought to do if they have company staying over. Or how to make sure dinner guests know what to do. (Can't just leave them to their own devices. Too many questions. Too much paperwork.)Medical concerns. Is anyone in your household diabetic? COPD or something that makes someone Oxygen dependent? Need a CPAP? Sever allergies that would require an epinephrine shot? Heart condition? A basic first aide kit is a must, but not always enough. Stock accordingly.I have seen old timers wire up a deep freeze in their shelter and use the shelter kind of like a root cellar during peace times. This is a plan that is not entirely without merit, in my opinion. It definitely puts some what you need in reach during a disaster/emergency. Before April 2011, I probably would not have realized how well that strategy could have paid dividends.Some of the background of my experiences during that time:My neighbors directly across the street were lucky that I both scuba dive AND weld. I only buy Aviator grade O2. So when their O2 supplies dried up and there was no power for their concentrator... well, my Oxy Acetylene was dismantled so my neighbor could breathe. She is a sweet old lady, and when the medical supply people finally showed all but freaking out because she should have been out for days, she just laughed and explained that she was fine because she had over a half tank of welding gas left. I am not sure they knew what to make of it. Across the street diagonally, my other neighbor is a diabetic. We kept one fridge on my end of the block cold as a "strategic reserve" of perishables and things like the insulin for my neighbor. To supply power we ran my Miller Bobcat several times throughout the day. If we were careful we could make a tank on the Bobcat last about 4 to 5 days. (A little over two gallons a day. She is a thirsty beast, but can run my house in a pinch. We even had hot showers if we were sparing.)We did a lot of cooking on a gas grill for the whole neighborhood. I always keep an extra cylinder or two since it does not give much notice before the burners go out!We used a Coleman stove for tea and coffee and things like cooking eggs and toast. I had a case of the propane cylinders I squirreled away when they were on sale. It was luck they were on hand. We needed almost every one before the lights came back on.We did have water. That was one spot of luck we did appreciate. We filled up some kiddie pools in the back yard. The kids (even the teenagers, but they won't own up...) might as well have been in a water park or amusement park. They all had a blast. When the power came back on they were almost bummed everyone was going inside.Last edited by browncoat; 05-30-2013 at 03:28 PM.
Reply:^Looks like someone else believes that overkill just isn't enough.
Reply:A connex would work fine. Isn't that what the guy in mississippi (or where ever it was) use when he kidnapped that kid a couple months ago? Shoot, you could do a whole compound under ground with those things just using mandoor cut outs between them.Actually know a guy who was the contractor on a multi story house made out of them.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by Fnord5^Looks like someone else believes that overkill just isn't enough.Originally Posted by ThorsHammerA connex would work fine. Isn't that what the guy in mississippi (or where ever it was) use when he kidnapped that kid a couple months ago? Shoot, you could do a whole compound under ground with those things just using mandoor cut outs between them.Actually know a guy who was the contractor on a multi story house made out of them.
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerThats experience talking. not skitzophrenia.
Reply:from personal experience I've never had, nor seen, mud tires do good in snow/ice. just my $0.02 on that front. as for the rest, The OP didn't ask for a fallout shelter, He asked for a tornado shelter. Yes one could work for both. but it's not ideal for that situation. no need to go overboard. I get being prepared, I was a boyscout, I'm at the top of several friends lists for their zombie survival group. though I highly doubt they'd ever need me on that front. I get what you're going for, but you've got to remember, not everyone is like that.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by BD1Maybe because I'm old but this looks like it is from 1920 ! I'm not that old. My parents had a situation with flooding, once in 100 years, WELL it happened twice in three years. What to do ? Answer: MOVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply:Now that I have had opportunity to do a little on-line research during lunch break, I think you should review this site and download a copy of the document (FEMA P-320) offered.http://www.fema.gov/library/viewRecord.do?id=1536FEMA Publication 320 is the document that outlines government approved tornado shelters, and likely contains all the requirements you will need for it to be constructed legally where a building permit is required.I don't want to be a nay-sayer, but if a building permit is required in your area then you may not be able to use this tank. You may want to investigate this angle before you pile money time and effort into this tank. Of course, if you are intent on installing this quietly without a permit and think you can get away with it then I say more power to ya!- MondoMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerfrom personal experience I've never had, nor seen, mud tires do good in snow/ice. just my $0.02 on that front.
Reply:Originally Posted by Fnord5I've had really good luck with my BFG muds aired down to15 psi.
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerthere's the catch, road driving vs off road. road driving with inflated tires on snow and ice with mud tires typically ends badly for the driver. at least up here in the nw where most people forget how to drive every time the weather changes.
Reply:Folks that a lot of advise to do some serious thinking about. Some of the folks that were killed in Alabama a couple of years ago were in their basement and sucked out of it when their entire home disappeared. One of our friends brothers had a storm/tornado shelter that he never used because he thought whats the chance of one hitting him. When the big storms came two years ago he decided to ask the couple next door with the new baby and or small children to come over and go in his shelter just to be curteous. While they were down there they heard one heck of a noise. Once the noise was gone they decided to see if their was any damage. To their suprise everything was gone. The home , the cars the trees, the grass on the ground and some of the pavement . I also went to a place near me where everything was erased. I hope I never have to use the shelter but I want to be prepared.By the way our farm is out of an area that floods. We are on a mountain in Northeast Alabama. As far as Zooombies. I think most of the old country boy rednecks around here can handle that.I have had the tank over 20 years and it was washed throughly . ADEM required the group that delivered it and several tanks to me to add dry ice while they were being transported. This particular tank has no odor that I can detect but I will head the advice about the gasoline or diesel fuel residue.Please keep up the suggestions . They are all appreciated and give room for additional thought and comment from other folks. I did want to keep the tank in an open field near my home away from trees and in an embankment with just the end exposed with the entrance. I like the idea of extra excape routes and a small supply of items such as water and possible a toilet. By the way my community was out of power close to 3 weeks when the tornado hit two years ago. I had a diesel generator that I ran 24/7 for power. Back in the early 60s when I was in the Scouts one of the things that was impressed on me was to BE PREPARED. I remember the soviet era when we thought they were going to bomb us from CUBA richey sweet home alabama
Reply:adding a frame to the door would not hurt anything and would give you something to build your lock off of.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:One of my top concerns would definitely be pooping facilities. Having a tornado just outside the door could very well get one's guts percolating. Could make for some awkward moments and hazardous atmospheres. And what about the beer! POVERTY...is the Mother of InventionMillermatic 211Millermatic 140Miller Thunderbolt XLArcOne 100STS inverter w/TIGThermal Dynamics 38XL Victor Oxy/AcetyleneJancy Slugger Holemaker IIJet 5x6 BandsawNever enough time & sleep.
Reply:As inspiration have a look at this page about 3/4 of the way down,at ground scouring.:http://extremeplanet.me/tag/f5-tornado-footage/
Reply:Bluewelders Thanks for the information. I live near Rainsville , Alabama which is discussed in the link that you sent. That tornado just missed my sisters home by a few yards. The wind was so strong that it actually pulled up powerline poles in lieu of twisting them off. I hope a lot of folks realize that this act of weather could happen to them. I hope it never does but once you have seen the damage and the unusual way dirt and boulders along with other objects are displaced , your attention will be more directed to the dangers. Richey sweet home alabama
Reply:Mondo Thank you for the FEMA link. We are not required to have permits here but I was the former president of the builders association for the county and I try to always seek and follow codes when required and I use them for resource materials on projects such as this storm shelter/ bunker/ enclosed underground bathroom/ fall out shelter, etc etc. Richey sweet home alabama
Reply:What if lighting strikes on metal or wet ground by tank think about it
Reply:jim tongae That is something that I have never thought about. That is an excellent point. I would think that the metal tank would act like a faraday cage or shield and the charge go around the tank. I just dont know about that. Folks we need some more input regarding the Lighting problem that could arise. Does any one know about this ???????? Richey
Reply:Throw down a lightning rod hooked to a ground away from the main structure to be safe..And, aside from the actual construction, inform the fire department/rescue of your shelter! And the exact location of it.
Reply:Originally Posted by BD1Maybe because I'm old but this looks like it is from 1920 ! I'm not that old. My parents had a situation with flooding, once in 100 years, WELL it happened twice in three years. What to do ? Answer: MOVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply:Hi, during the WW2 bombing of England, I was a 4 year old, and we spent almost 3 years up and down our back garden air raid shelter most nights and days......luckily we missed the bombs, even though we were only 5 miles out from London..........nearest hit was a V1 that landed 1/4 mile away and blew all the windows out......I can still smell the smell of damp wood and clothing, and the paraffin oil lamp.......all in an area 10 feet wide by 8 feet long....two grown ups and two children.Unlike a tornado, we had at least a 5 minute warning when the sirens went, and in the beginning that was every night and most days for months.The worst experience of the shelter was the cold and dampness that was everywhere....condensation makes everything stink........anyone who wants to live underground has got rocks in their head.I could not imagine why anyone would live in an area where a tornado just might occur.....and live there again when a tornado has occurred....and rebuild a house in the same area.Ian.
Reply:I made a door for a customer that was a proto type
Reply:I'd paint the whole outside with this stuff before burying it: http://www.por15.com/POR-15/productinfo/1GB/miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:I don't think I've seen it mentioned in the thread yet, but if you're going with an underground shelter, one HUGE thing you need to think about is VENTILATION and COOLING. Put 4 or 5 people into a tank underground, and you just wait and see how fast it gets rank, stale, and unbearably hot and humid. The bottom line is, you're going to need some kind of POWERED ventilation system...even if it's only "human powered."One especially good book that addresses all these issues from a scientific standpoint is "Nuclear War Survival Skills" written by nuclear physicists from Oak Ridge National Laboratory (free download):http://www.nukepills.com/docs/nuclea...val_skills.pdf
Reply:Originally Posted by jim tongateWhat if lighting strikes on metal or wet ground by tank think about it
Reply:Probably because it's coated with tar on the outside making it semi-insulated.Run a couple ground straps securely bolted to the tank, attached to ground rods. No more worries.But lets be honest, you really need something like this to avoid all the injuries from a tornado............ Attached ImagesMarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Asolis Thanks for sharing the photos of the doors. Do they connect to a concrete bunker?Folks I read an article somewhere about the 40 ft shipping containers that some people are using for bunkers/tornado/storm shelters. The article stated that the containers were designed for point loads at the corners for stacking and that unless they had a lot of beefing up they would not support a lot of weight from being covered with dirt. I guess all of us being in the welding trade/hobby some what one could figure out how to reinfore the unit. The comment on extra ventilation is an excellent point. We all give off a lot of water when we breath as can be noted on a cold morning with the fog coming off our breath.The purpose of my post was to get as many ideas and as much input as possible regarding the construction of the shelter. Just like the first hand experience of living in a bomb shelter in England during the war. Lets see some ideas and suggestions on the best way to construct the door , exit route and venting. I feel most certain that alot of folks reading the thread have thought about some kind of shelter. School Bus. Yep just thought of it. A fellow just south of us dug a trench and drove an old school bus in the trench and put a light cover of dirt ( I think with some internal bracing) over the top. He loaded up some family and friends through the rear exit the day the tornado hit two years ago .They were saved but 6 to 10 folks lost their lives right down the road and a lot of property was destroyed. When interviewed in the paper the fellow said that the old school bus was all that he could afford and when he installed it he hoped he would never have to use it. He said a lot of folks laughed at him when he did it. I went down to the area a few miles from my home and couldnt believe the damage. I love where I live but we have been hit on everyside of us but right here. The tornados that were spotted over our home just nearly touched down but missed us a few hundred yards. If this thread helps just one family I think its worth having all you folks do some serious brainstorming about any suggestion, photo, web site link or comment. By the way I glad some of you live in areas where there are no problems with tornadoes. Thanks again for all of your help . I take all your comments seriously . Lets hear some more ideas. richey sweet home alabama |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:53:56