Oxy/propane conversion regrets out there?

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I'm seriously thinking of dumping the oxy/acetylene set up all together in my small shop (garage) and going to an oxy/propane set up.  I know propane isn't as hot as acetylene and I know one can't weld with oxy/propane.  Here's things I consider:I only cut and pre heat with O/A and never weld with it.   The acetylene has its limits with the 1/7th rule and my "limited" sized tank.  The acetylene is less stable than the propane as far as storage, size, WEIGHT for transporting etc....  But, the BIGGEST reason to make the permanent switch and  get rid of the acetylene is the cost of propane.  It's so much cheaper and easier for me to get at the drop of a hat.  Plus, the tanks are smaller and easier for me to move around.  If I had to in a pinch, I can use my BBQ and RV propane tanks too.  I understand that with O/P cutting, one must get used to slightly delayed pre-cut heat characteristics and that finding the neutral flame is different than O/A.   the biggest thing im reading is that with O/P, the user uses the "outer" flame edge, unlike O/A.  So i understand it will take a bit of a learning curve and some equipment costs to make the switch if i do it. I'm just wondering if anyone here that's made the switch from O/A to O/P has regretted that decision?  If i dump acetylene all together, i probably will never go back to it.  I need to shrink down junk in the garage and i dont want both set ups.  Thanks. Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:I switched to oxy-propane for cutting, brazing, etc. I bought the appropriate hoses and propane cutting tip for my torch, but for some reason I have trouble getting the torch lit and running properly, especially in winter. The whole scene is much more wild and violent with oxy-propane compared to O/A. The flame is waay longer, the propane gobbles up like 3X as much oxygen (by volume) as acetylene would (just to get a neutral flame)...I dunno whether I'd do it again. OTOH, maybe I'm just dense and not "getting it" and need to get someone experienced with oxy-propane to show me the ropes...it just seems like it was a lot easier (if not cheaper) to cut with O/A versus O/P.
Reply:I have used propane for about 15 years and only rarely use the acetylene. I used to cut scrap so that's how I got introduced to it.  Carried a forklift cylinder for cutting.It seems a little weird to light with both valves turned on but you forget about it after a while. I just have a tiny acetylene tank to use the welding tip now and then.  Or to teach my kiddos how to weld.Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by KelvinI switched to oxy-propane for cutting, brazing, etc. I bought the appropriate hoses and propane cutting tip for my torch, but for some reason I have trouble getting the torch lit and running properly, especially in winter. The whole scene is much more wild and violent with oxy-propane compared to O/A. The flame is waay longer, the propane gobbles up like 3X as much oxygen (by volume) as acetylene would (just to get a neutral flame)...I dunno whether I'd do it again. OTOH, maybe I'm just dense and not "getting it" and need to get someone experienced with oxy-propane to show me the ropes...it just seems like it was a lot easier (if not cheaper) to cut with O/A versus O/P.
Reply:Oxy/propane takes more Oxy for the preheat flame.  But look at the Oxy pressure when you are actually cutting.  That, I have been lead to believe, is the major consumer of Oxy.  That said, I've seen studies where it's a very close call on CFM & economics.  Obviously propane is cheaper and a bit safer."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcPlus, the tanks are smaller and easier for me to move around.  If I had to in a pinch, I can use my BBQ and RV propane tanks too.
Reply:Originally Posted by Stick-manWhen you strike it up, and you have a long quiet flame, put the tip 3/8" away from a piece of steel while you're increasing the flame. You will hear a "POP" and then it's easy.
Reply:Originally Posted by KelvinYou'll go through three 250 CF bottles of oxygen before you use up even ONE 20-# BBQ bottle of propane, IIRC.
Reply:"Carried a forklift cylinder for cutting"Most fork lift cylinders are liquid withdrawal and unless you have a vaporizer won't work for equipment needing vapor.
Reply:People don't realize that a large acetyene tank weighing around 200 pounds only has around 25 pounds of gas.  The weight varies according to how much is absorbed by the acetone in the tank.   I have used propane so much that I am in the regular habit of lighting the torch while the tip is resting on a steel plate or table set at about 45 degrees.   The flame will bounce back up to the tip more easily.   I was doing a demo last year and a student asked me why I lit up in such an unusual manner.  I was using acetylene but forgot and used my propane method.  Without the tip resting on a plate it is next to impossible to light up propane only.
Reply:Originally Posted by vwguy3"Carried a forklift cylinder for cutting"Most fork lift cylinders are liquid withdrawal and unless you have a vaporizer won't work for equipment needing vapor.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveMine has two fittings, one for liquid and one for vapor.Dave J.
Reply:ive been using prop. for bout 10 years or so now. no complaints here. only thing i have seen people have a problem is when their setup is set correctly. i personally sold all my acet. bottles except for my ''porta torch''.btw i use 6-250cf oxy bottles to 1 bbq bottle. plus being able to fill your own bbq bottle sure is helpful. prop. reg-8psi oxy. reg-30psi. i however have had my best luck with Smith torches.MM 251MM 135Lincoln Pro cut 55Bobcat 250Miller Thunderbolt ac/dcolder ac forneyJackson nexgen 3n13-Smith OP setups97 Dodge dieselMakita chopsawJet swivel head bandsawlincoln tig 300/30030a spoolgunpuma port. gas air comp.
Reply:Everyone says that propane is more economical than acetylene, which I understand, but with the amount of oxygen consumed compared to the consumed propane, the fuel gas seems almost insignificant!
Reply:how much is 25lbs of acet. cost ? my 20lb prop. bottle cost me less than $6.00. so for $6.00 i can go through six oxy bottles. average cost for me $17.00. thats a whole lot of cutting heating for $108.00 ! what would the total cost be of acet. to use six oxy bottles ?MM 251MM 135Lincoln Pro cut 55Bobcat 250Miller Thunderbolt ac/dcolder ac forneyJackson nexgen 3n13-Smith OP setups97 Dodge dieselMakita chopsawJet swivel head bandsawlincoln tig 300/30030a spoolgunpuma port. gas air comp.
Reply:Quote:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave  Mine has two fittings, one for liquid and one for vapor.Dave J.  Originally Posted by vwguy3That would be interesting to see.
Reply:i use oxy/acy at work, and propane at home. for the same reasons you want to. i like them both, but at home propane is more convenient.Miller ab/p 330Hobart champ 16Miller 140Lincoln Power Mig 255Lincoln SA-250
Reply:Originally Posted by vwguy3That would be interesting to see.
Reply:Originally Posted by ksweldermanhow much is 25lbs of acet. cost ? my 20lb prop. bottle cost me less than $6.00. so for $6.00 i can go through six oxy bottles. average cost for me $17.00. thats a whole lot of cutting heating for $108.00 ! what would the total cost be of acet. to use six oxy bottles ?
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveHere you go.  Two places for fittings (vapor and liquid) and the yellow cap is on the fill valve I put in for filling off the bulk truck.It's a 43.5 lb capacity tank - holds 10.3 gallons. Dave J.
Reply:An air acetylene torch is quite nice, like a plumbers torch.  I have dropped down to the 40 cubic foot size of acetylene years ago.  They are getting way more in cost than they used to but work well for cutting nozzles with six preheat holes of say size 69 drill or smaller.  Those nozzles come to more of a point than propane nozzles.  I just plain find the line easier to see with acetylene and the nozzle can be rotated so ther bright spots aren't in the direction of travel.  Your eyes and lighting will of course be different than mine.  I have  been prick punching a line with propane and switched to acetylene and been able to work with just a carbide scribes scratch.  Acetylene is good for about another 10 minutes outside at sunset.Trimming nozzles and cutting off nuts the acetylene is superior and I have spent effort experimenting with propane and natural gas.An automatic torch like the Harris 18 or 50 makes re lighting simpler avoiding some of the inching up issues described in post 6.  Though I havn't experimented with any brand besides Harris non acetylene equipment it seems those don't need the inching up of the knobs.  I usually turn the propane on a bit watching against the sky the effect of the gas on light as opposed to air and can light reliably that way so long as no wind.  Perhaps will try the plate on an angle.FranLast edited by fran...k.; 03-01-2013 at 10:04 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by vwguy3That's a wild tank.I have seen a lot of fork lift tanks and have never seen one that has a CGA 510/POL fitting.Did you have it set up that way?
Reply:Originally Posted by fran...k. ...Trimming nozzles and cutting off nuts the acetylene is superior and I have spent effort experimenting with propane and natural gas.
Reply:At work we use propalyene, a propane acytlene mix. It heats quicker than propane, I always liked it and we used to hand cut alot of steel.
Reply:stickman, im pricing 20# at my price from my home tank,. just bought propane last week $1.32 here. if i take in a 100# its $35 at Coop.or roughly $30 if i fill it myself. and oxygen must just be cheap here i guess ?MM 251MM 135Lincoln Pro cut 55Bobcat 250Miller Thunderbolt ac/dcolder ac forneyJackson nexgen 3n13-Smith OP setups97 Dodge dieselMakita chopsawJet swivel head bandsawlincoln tig 300/30030a spoolgunpuma port. gas air comp.Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveI took out fittings and added whatever I wanted based on the internal design of the tank Heck the threaded holes mean they want me to change it however I like it right? I was working for a propane company at the time.Dave J.
Reply:I run off a grill tank all the time.  The best part about it is that I can swap it out 24hrs a day at one of those automated exchange stations.My name's not Jim....
Reply:i have used both. I have smith torches and can just switch tips to go back and forth. I personally dont mind either although some guys at work couldn't make propane work. I would like to get a large propane rose bud  because my acet one is almost to big for my tanks. I would keep my acet for brazing.Millermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:I have been using propane since 2007.  I also have acetylene,  my preference is cost so I use propane. I have no regrets.
Reply:plus, youve got to remember. ive got a ''T'' in my propane fiiting so my cheap little Sunbeam bbq grill will work as well !MM 251MM 135Lincoln Pro cut 55Bobcat 250Miller Thunderbolt ac/dcolder ac forneyJackson nexgen 3n13-Smith OP setups97 Dodge dieselMakita chopsawJet swivel head bandsawlincoln tig 300/30030a spoolgunpuma port. gas air comp.
Reply:Use natural gas too , we cut 17 inches with it and preheat too . Harris makes the best alternate fuel equipment.  If   only cutting  you can use a injector torch 4 oz gas pressure .
Reply:I don't see much of the regreats factor in the origional posters situation.  Any torches, nozzles and stuff like that will store easily and an acetylene tank can be purchaced or leased easily.  Perhaps the hose issues will one day cause regrets as the grade T one you find may not be as flexible as the acetylene only grade you currently have and one day you want to run the hoses farther and can't easily find grade t locally or during the hours  you choose to go shopping.  I suppose you might regret when you find that in order to hold your hands like you are accustomed to it will become necessary (advisabe) to find a spacer to go under your hands or else hold the torch higher.Now if you have a large building with the acetylene manifold and steel or iron piping to the various work stations and change your mind after ripping that out that is an entirely different situation.  Perhaps somewhere in between would be if you midified a work truck' designated spot for one cylinder shape and size and then had to reverse it.Last edited by fran...k.; 03-07-2013 at 07:56 AM.
Reply:Well, instead of just buying new tips and a propane regulator, I decided to buy an entirely new welding torch set up.  My new Victor "Journeyman II" (for propane) will arrive Tuesday.  I'll leave my oxy/acetylene set-up alone, but in moth balls.   I know I can use my acetalyne regulator with propane, but my tax return was good to me this year. This way, I also get a new "T" grade fuel hose too as part of the package.   Ill have two separate torch set ups.  DLincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:You can never have too many torch setups.
Reply:I've been on Prop/oxy for 15+ yrs. Works great and is much cheaper. Never had lighting trouble so I don't know what others are doing. I just turn the prop. on a bit light, turn on the Oxy a little to get the flame set, then turn each up a bit, back and forth till I get the flame I want. Never used a rose bud. My guy at the LWS says not to. Can't recall why, it's been so long since that conversation. I know that the prop. tanks and valves can freeze is you are running it wide open for a long time or when running a prop. forge. You can just toss the prop tank into a tub of water to keep it from freezing. Way more convenient and cheap to fill, plus you've got back up from your BBQ if you run out! no down sides IMHO.200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:Dumb question, but let me ask anyway:   what happens if you use a acetylene tip with propane?
Reply:Originally Posted by k45Dumb question, but let me ask anyway:   what happens if you use a acetylene tip with propane?
Reply:Originally Posted by ANVILThats not a dumb question.  Actually, one can use an acetylene tip when using propane, but its a pain in the @$$.  The reason the two piece propane tip is recessed is to help eliminate "most" of the propane flame "jump" (gap) between the tip and base of the flame.  I forget off hand what the actual term is called, but the little recess in a propane tip makes it much much easier to keep the flame where it's supposed to be, right at the torch cutting tip.  Without that gap, your flame actually has about a 1/2"-2" air "gap" (or "void" of an actual flame) before you see the base of the flame.  It's very unstable and blows itself out easily.  The recess gap in the tip eliminates the tendency of that gap to occur by about 90% of the time.  I hope I made sense for you and didn't just ramble on.
Reply:Anvil,Thanks for the explanation!  I did play around with it a bit last night after your comments.  I saw what you described.  But at least I got a chance to operate it a little bit.    I just bought the rig and the LWS sold me an acetylene tank that doesn't fit the regulator!        The acet reg has a propane type connection.  Of course, I didn't find that out until after they closed Friday afternoon, LOL.