Cold welds: Handler 140 on 1/8"

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I've been butt welding some flat 1/8" mild steel using solid .30 wire and c25. I'm using a Hobart Handler 140 plugged directly to an outlet with nothing else on the circuit. I am welding in my highest heat setting, and as slow as possible yet my welds are still cold and tall. There is no gap between the pieces as I want a tight seem on the other side, but i am beveling the edges. I feel this really should not be a problem for this machine, and I am searching for possible reasons. The only two options I can come up with are; 1. I am welding on a concrete floor which may act a bit like a heat sink... 2. The outlet is on a 20A breaker, but the breaker does not trip. Would switching in a 30a breaker possibly help?Thanks in advance for any advise.
Reply:Picts would help. Going to a dedicated 30 amp line would help some. However don't just swap out the breaker. The breaker is there to protect the wires in the wall, not the machine. As far as your 20 amp current line, make sure there isn't anything else on that line. It's not common for most house hold circuits to be dedicated to one outlet. The exception being some kitchen outlets. Usually there are quite a few outlets all on the same line. Even things that are "off" like Tv's computers etc still draw power and will reduce your total power available.Trying to punch straight thru a tight but joint with that machine will be very tough. You really need more output to really do that. Bevels will allow you to do this with no issue however, assuming you are maxed on the volts. I'd grind it to almost a knife edge with a very tiny land if you want to get 100% penetration. You should be able to see that land melt down and see the keyhole open up as you weld.A few things that will also help your output. If you use a long stickout and hold the gun a fair ways away from the base material, you will get a colder weld than you will if you get real close with the gun. I typically see newer mig students try to weld with 3/4" or more stickout. You should be down to 1/4", 3/8" at most to get the most out of that machine.  Also if you push vs pull, you will reduce your weld height and get a flatter weld. it reduces your penetration slightly, but if you have a good bevel and go slow, you'll compensate for the reduction in penetration and have a bit more control on the thin edge of the bevel. You may also find dropping down to .023 wire and cranking up the wire speed may help slightly.But joints are some of the hardest to do. It's the last joint we have students work on at the tech school. all the other joints help build up the skills needed to pull this off.You are running right on the edge of what that machine can do. Anything that reduces your output will work against you..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks for your response. I have actually been mig welding for 4 years or so, but usually with a 220v machine. I am using a pull technique because I am concerned with the penetration. I was thinking if changing the breaker only because I there is only one outlet on the circuit I wired it lol. Perhaps your right and this is right on the edge of the machines capabilities, but I really though it could do a bit better. Here are some pics for reference. These welds are going on some non structural handrail skirting. Here is also a pic of a bead on beveled 3/8 with the same machine who's was still cold, but better than on the 1/8" Attached Images
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Reply:I can't see 30 amp line doing you anything.Is polarity correct?
Reply:I can't see 30 amp line doing you anything.
Reply:I do not see where it says that. Not too many people have 30 amp 110 in the house. You can max the welder on a 20 amp circuit.
Reply:It would help to bevel or at least run a cutting wheel through a butt joint ,like that, or else it will pile up.  Here is a picture of a slightly beveled butt joint on 1/8th tube I welded with a hobart handler. Attached Images
Reply:If you are trying to weld using an extension cord, don't. At high current draw that resistor will drop voltage available from an outlet very quickly. I replaced my unit's 14ga normal power cord with a 25 foot section of 10/3 from my 30A RV outlet.Plugs for 15A/20A, 25A and 30A 115V receptacles are all different (at least according to code)Last edited by wirehead; 04-02-2013 at 08:21 PM.XMT304 (school)SP125+ (home)HF 4x6 BandsawGood judgement comes from experience and much of that comes from bad judgement.
Reply:I would drop down to .023 wire and 95-5gas and it will work much better
Reply:Originally Posted by davido30093The manual shows 20 amps input at 90 amps out.
Reply:My hobart handler 140 has tripped a 20amp circuit. Only other thing on it was a 4foot light overhead. You have to run a pretty long bead though.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:If you're having heat problems it may be time to switch to self shielding flux core wire.With your machine the flux core will amaze you.  It's good wire.  Run some .030 flux core, and see the difference.I have the earlier version of your machine (Hobart Handler 135), and it performs very well with the flux core"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Pulling the puddle is going to cause it to pile. The groove left from beveling 1/8" is going to be fairly shallow and narrow, so tap 4 may be putting down to much weld metal. I'd give tap 3 a try on some scrap.ESAB Migmaster 250 Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:Thanks for all the input everyone. I've owned this welder for a few years, but I've only used it on thin sheet metal at home. I've always had access to a 220v mig for heavier material. The panel on the handler 140 says that it can weld 1/4" using flux and a double pass. I know that manufactures tend to rate the capabilities of their machines generously, I assumed it would handle butt welding beveled 1/8" with solid wire and C25 a bit better. I know flux core would help, but i want clean welds here. So I tried a few options.    I changed out the breaker for a 30a. I did a few searches and found people claiming that it would help, although I don't understand why it would. If it did help, it wasn't much.   I elevated the material up off the cold concrete floor. I actually think this made a big difference. I immediately saw heat discoloration on the opposite side of the weld when I was not previously.   I also switched from a pull to push method. I knew this would flatten my weld, but it seemed to help penetration as well. By the end of the push weld I was seeing slight penetration on the opposite side of the steel. Using a pull method there was no penetration on the opposite side at all which is opposite of what I would have expected.  In the end I managed to get good strong welds on the 1/8" with a little trial and error. Thanks again for all of the responses!
Reply:Pics?Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer