Hay Baler Repairs

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Some welding, and some heat n' beatThe pickup reel had a close encounter with a rather large rock shelf.  The pickup tine shields were trashed.I have 2 new ones on stock in the shop, but the other 2 have to be ordered.  Don't have no stinking time for backorders so it's gonna be heat beat and weld I guessThe other problem has been ongoing since I bought the baler 20yrs ago.  The thing chews up the main drive belt with regularity  Pricey little booooogersAs you can see, the roller doesn't track true, and the belt runs off the side of the roller at all times.Continued in next post.................."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Because the roller doesn't track properly, it delaminates the double v-belt.The 2 v's are held together by a rubber backing, and it's getting trashed after very few hours.The arm that the roller is attached to was apparently "repaired" in the past before I acquired the baler (it's REAL old), and I'll probably have to heat shrink the tubing back to a true line."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Now I coulda done this last Winter, even last WEEK.  But the hay's gonna be so lousy this year because of the weeds that came in after the wildfire I've been putting off cutting so far.  Seems to be a waste of time, and I'm procrastinating"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammNow I coulda done this last Winter, even last WEEK. .  Seems to be a waste of time, and I'm procrastinating
Reply:I think I've seen flanged pulleys similar to your idler pulley-a flat pulley with side flanges.  If you could find one it may solve your belt problem.I think you're pretty good at fixing things like the tine shields, so I won't comment on that part...at least not until I see the completed work.CharleyLast edited by CharleyL; 07-19-2013 at 07:11 PM.Miller MM252Miller Bobcat 225NTMiller DialArc HF / DIY Cooler2 Victor O/A TorchsetsMilwaukee 8" Metal SawMilwaukee Dry Cut "Chop" Saw 5 Ton Wallace Gantry Various Grinders, Benders, etc.
Reply:What's the baler model Sam? Those shields (we call them strippers up here, don't know why, supposedly a JD term) should be fairly universal across several models - poor dealer support wins again.Bruce
Reply:I knew samm was into farming and trucking,but apparently he's also a shipping mogul. Attached Imagesmiller thunderbolt 250vlincoln square wave tig 175 prolincoln idealarc mig sp250everlast tig 210EXTeverlast power plasma 50chicago electric (hf) 130 tig/90 arcchicago electric 90 amp flux wire3 sets oxy/acet
Reply:Some companies are going to plastic strippers/pickup guards. Shoup has them for Deere we have them on our oxbo merger and they are nice. I know oxbo used to use New Holland parts so they may interchangeMillermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:That looks to be an 851 or a 852 new holland. Those chain balers will bale anything! Roots, willows, but not so good on rocks..... ran a couple for many years here. Retired them for a j.d 535.  Sorry to hear your hays poor this year, we have excess moisture up here. Cant or shouldn't turn a wheel.  Good luck with the hay.
Reply:Well  Here goesStraightening the tine shields was pretty much a snap, just used the new one for a template.  Not perfect, but enough to get it out in the field.  This was done with a smallish O/A rosebud.  Nice thin metal easy to heatNext, I noticed that the mounting points for the shields were badly bent.  Not just the tabs, but the steel flange they're part of.For anyone messing with this stuff I highly recommend having capabilities for various types of heating.  I run an O/A rig, and a heavy duty Propane rig.  The heavier steel on the mounting tabs required more heat.  For this I used a spot heating tip fired by propane.  IT GETS VERY HOT, and will focus heat in a small area, this is handy to keep from lighting the entire baler on fire, or ruing nearby bearings.More to follow................"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:The tabs were heated on the top side, and the torch was manipulated to direct the excess heat away from the side of the baler where the bearings, etc. are.The beauty of the large heating tip is that the metal will stay cherry red for quite a while after you heat it, giving you time to get under the baler and do the actual adjustments with a smallish sledge hammer.It turned out fine considering the damage.  The tabs are fairly well lined up.  Any finer adjustments would have to have been done with the entire assembly off the baler, and the ability to attach a straightedge somewhere on the frame.Next step is to put it all together, then go on to fix the idler roller"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I did tweak the far right tab after the pic was taken, so rest easy"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Well done.  I love seeing real work done repairing equipment.  You were talking about certain type of welders the other day.  Well, I had a run in with that type of welder's work.  A guy asked me if I could repair some repairs he had done.  He paid good money to a "welder" to do the job.  He said this "welder had a great truck with all the bells and whistles.  I looked over the repair and could tell this guy did know how to weld, but he sure didn't know anything about repair work.  Nothing was prepped.  He just added a bunch of metal and welded.  He didn't straighten the damaged parts, he didn't worry about future repairs that may need to be done, and he didn't know what he was doing.  He just welded everything in sight and the man paid top dollar.I priced this man a figure and am waiting to hear back from him.  I didn't want hurt his feelings, but time is money and I have to spend time undoing what the other welder did. Anyway, this man has a wonderful contraption.Samm, it is an old DoAll type of implement.  I will get pictures if I get the job, but it has a pulverizer in the front followed by a set of row of sweeps to lift and fluff the top couple of inches, followed by a bedder or hipper and finished with a seeder.  all of it is hydraulically lifted on floatation tires.  He said his dad built it and has a larger side by side so he can create two rows at a time.  They had large farms and after turning the soil to bury the old plants after harvest, this was what they used to follow up with.  He said sometimes they needed to have a tractor in front pulling a set of discs, but this DoAll would lay everything needed for garden.  The seeder could be doubled and he could double plant or off set plant the bed if he wanted a wide bed.His dad was a welder, but was too old to do it anymore.  He never picked it up.  He just got back to farming as he was laid off of work and was selling produce on the side of the road.  He laughed and said when he left the farm, he wasn't ever going back.  Now he says it is the best thing he has ever done.  He said his favorite place is on that tractor where he can leave all the stresses behind and just focus on the task at hand.
Reply:Got done with the pickup reel repairs.Ultimately there was a little bit of welding.  I had forgotten that one of the tabs was completely gone.To make a new piece I sort of made a "blank" out of some flat stock.  The idea was to match what was gone without replacing the entire thing.  I felt that the more that was left of the original....the better everything would fit in the end.The "blank" was then fitted to the remaining piece left on the baler.  A matter of grinding it down till it fit the stub that was left.  The bend area matched pretty well.More to follow........."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:It was a very tight, uncomfortable place to have to weld.  I wasn't real thrilled about it. Lots of stuff to get hung up on, and stuff poking you when you lay down.  Had to squeeze my head under the cross bars to even get close enough to see the welding  Luckily the baler has built in safety stops mounted on the lift cylinders, flip them in place, and go to town Everything fit   (Which is always a good thing )Considering what I started out with, I was pretty pleased with the final boltup.  It's ready (at least this part) to hit the field."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by nova4353That looks to be an 851 or a 852 new holland. Those chain balers will bale anything! Roots, willows, but not so good on rocks..... ran a couple for many years here. Retired them for a j.d 535.  Sorry to hear your hays poor this year, we have excess moisture up here. Cant or shouldn't turn a wheel.  Good luck with the hay.
Reply:The new balers, from all manufacturers, are getting over gadgeted. Just like tractors. Instead of making a solid machine, they're all adding more electronic stuff that monitors a bunch of stuff that really doesn't help in making a solid bale.Lincoln Precision Tig 185Lincoln Power Mig 256Hypertherm PM 45Everlast 140STSmith O/A
Reply:Nice looking repair.
Reply:Originally Posted by manningThe new balers, from all manufacturers, are getting over gadgeted. Just like tractors. Instead of making a solid machine, they're all adding more electronic stuff that monitors a bunch of stuff that really doesn't help in making a solid bale.
Reply:Not being in the forage business, I guess the old NH is good enough for meJust put up a few bales here and there, sort of a hobby I guessI don't worry about leaf shatter on Native Bluestem  Or Haygrazer eitherI will pick a fight over net wrap though  Only idiots that like net wrap are "forage producers".  Got it straight from the horses mouth this Summer......."Cuts production time, because you don't have to sit there while the twine wrapper cycles".Yabuttttttttt I gotta feed that crap if I'm unlucky enough to have to buy net wrap bales  Good ice storm (which we have quite often here), and you gotta pry the net wrap off the bale, and half the hay comes with itNow let's talk about storage..........Net wrap stores for crap outside.  No argument.  It decays faster on the ground side.  AND GOD FORBID YOU NICK A BALE BY CATCHING IT ON SOMETHING.  IT MESSES UP THE NET.  Never have that with a twine/string tie bale.Couldn't GIVE me a net wrap baler, and I'm thinking about buying a newer baler in the next year or so.Only thing I don't like about the old 846 is that it could maybe make a much tighter bale.  The way they were made it's impossible to make a rock hard bale like the newer ones.But, then again, they don't catch fire in the field because of the high heat generated by making a tight bale either.......................Last edited by farmersamm; 07-22-2013 at 04:35 PM.Reason: un needed word"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Besides.......hay tedders, and rakes, probably cause more damage to hay than any baler.Another "forage Production" tactic.  Make huge winrows out of hay cut with a rotary cutter, or combine winrows cut with a swather/winorower.  Makes a mess of the hay, and you get a lot of dirt in the hay too.Want good hay.............make it from undisturbed winrows.  If you're looking at hard-to-dry hay invest in an inverter, don't rake it."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Nice fix there Samm! I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Samm, as a forage user, I hate net wrap. Even with a perfect wrap, you remove a bunch of the bale getting the damn stuff off! If I'm buying hay, it's big squares or twine tied rounds only. As for making hay, my discbine has a 12' cut. I remove the swath shields and put a deflector right behind the conditioner. Presto! An 11' wide winrow that cures without tedding. My old 335 will crank out 600# 4x4s all season long. No adjustments needed. Just a little grease and oil in the morning.Lincoln Precision Tig 185Lincoln Power Mig 256Hypertherm PM 45Everlast 140STSmith O/A
Reply:K'kins is home.  Later"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammK'kins is home.  LaterYou know there was reported a loud clap of thunder down here about that time. LOL.  Scared all the men folk real bad.  all the ladies just smiled and kept chatting.  I was stupid enough to keep yacking my mouth and got into trouble.  That is why I am still on here at 10:30pm.
Reply:Funny, we run around 2000 rounds a year, every one in net and who kinows how many squares (in poly twine) and I feed some of those rounds to the wife's nags (aka: Percheron Draft Horses) and I've never had issue one with pulling the net, winter or summer.  I'll take net over fishing twine from a round bale anyday.  Far as frozen bales and net, this is Michigan and it gets cold and rainy and snowy here and I've never had issue one and neither has any of our customers, in fact, they prefer net over twine (our round bailers can do either.The guy down the road has a clanker (chain bailer with the manual twine crank) and while I admit it's simple, it's slow for one and two, the bailes are always loose.  My customers want and demand tight, well formed bales.  Your bailer is fine for you, it's not an option for high production hay making, at least not in my perspective.Back, years ago when I started out, being not too well versed in hay tools and learning the hard way, I started with a side delivery rake (which I refer to as a roper) and a sicklle bar sidemount mower, fine for ditches but slow as hell for cutting hay.  I had an IH steel wheel pull behind crimper (still have that in the barn) to break the stems, that was a time ago.First thing that went was the sickle.  I bought a JD MoCo with an SCH double cut floating bar then the rake went.  Bought a Giehl single rotor, rotary rake used.  Still have that too, as a backup.  I keep the MoCo for fields that are trashy or have rocks.  The discbine don't like rocks and trash and my discbine has the NH Wide-Thin kit on the swathboard.  That gives me an adjustable windrow up to 18 feet wide if need be for quick drydown.  Alfalfa isn't grass hay (like you have).  Alfalfa is a thick stem plant with leaves.  The leaves need to be left on the stem for nutritive value and the stems need to be crushed to  aspirate the moisture from the plant.We use Kuhn rotary rakes, no tedding, I don't believe in tedding, no merging nothing but mow and crimp, check the RM electronically with the Delmhorst. moisture probe and when the forage is below 10, bail it.  We have onboard moisture sensors that interface with the Delmhorst in all the bailers, both round and square and interactive proprionic acid applicastion on the mnachines that meters acid in direct relationship to the RM, if the RM reaches a preswet threshold, usually 13%.  We use Greensaver btw.As of this year we are running 2 NH discbines, both with wide thin kits, one side swing and one center swing, the MoCo as a backup, a NH 575 High capacity square bailer (no kicker), quarter turn chute and a Kuhn accumulator and JR Long Grapple.  2 Rakes, a Kuhn 2 rotor and the Geihl single rotor and a NH round bailer with bale slice and wide sweep pickup.Tractors are all large frame Kubota's with cabs and comfort.  FWA and loaders of course.  Never run any disc nachine with an  open station tractor unless your life insurance is paid up.It's a business with me and with any business, to make money and stay ahead you have to invest in good equipment.  Machines never break in the barn......Almost forgot, we also have a tractor trailer.  An IH Eagle Conventional double bunk with a 3406 Cat and 13 speed.  It pulls a Wilson hopper and a 48 foot Dorsey platform trailer.  Various hay wagons too.  Mostly tandem axle Giehl forage wagon running gear with 24 and 28 foot beds.You see, being a business, I want to get out there and get it done and done right with a minimal amount of pissing around.  I have other things to do besides play with old equipment and watch my work get rained on because the old crap took a crap.I'm not knocking your operation, it obviously works for you,  It don;'t work for me.
Reply:Don't get me wrong, I did plenty of wrenching on the old stuff and lots of gas axe work too.  I'm a helluva stick welder and my Lincoln Ranger has gotten a good workout. I had tempermental tractors that I bought used that had the bags run off them because thats what I could afford, but as my business increased and the bottom line got better, so did the equipment.I had an old Massey POS cab tractor with a naturally aspirated Perkins and tiorque amplifier that the clutch release fingers broke on while I was out bailing.  I ran out of field and put the SOB and the bailer in the creek.  Hot diesel and cold creek don't mix well...... I've had my fun.If it don't have ac, kick butt stereo and air ride seat, I don't own it...period.  If it's 90 outside, it better be 68 in the cab and a cold something in the drink holder.  Thats what I'm all about.
Reply:It's really a matter of apples and oranges  I'm on the small side, and couldn't justify fancy equipment, although it would be nice.  I'd still keep my twine tied bales though.What you can do, in lieu of using moisture monitors, is grab a good handful of the hay in the winrow and try to snap it.  About a 1-2" thick wad.  If it just bends the grass without an audible snap it's not ready for baling.  If the grass stems snap when bent it's ready to wrap.  But ya gotta get down off that air conditioned tractor to do itA lot of guys around here insist on "wet" hay.  They like it baled green, and then wonder why they get mold halfway thru the Winter.  I guess it's a matter of trying to teach old dogs new tricks.  A good dry bale will last a few seasons without much deterioration.  Any deterioration is mostly caused by ground moisture wicking up into the bale, and rain making its way into the bale from the top.Ah well, better get after it before the heat gets bad today.  Ought to go a bit better today WITHOUT THE KILLER OVERDOSE OF BENADRYL, CHLOR-TRIMETHON, AND CLARITIN I WAS CARRYING INSIDE MY GUT YESTERDAY, TOPPED OFF BY BEER (TWAS BEER NITE)"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Twine vs net comes down to speed in feeding for me. I can load a trailer with bales resting against each other, drive to the cows, cut the strings and pull them out without needing to move a single bale. Can't do it with net wrap. You start yanking at the wrap from one side of the bale and it will always pull hay out. You have to set that bale all by its lonesome and lead that wrap around the bale a few times to get it off. Don't even think about cutting it. That just makes it worse.Lincoln Precision Tig 185Lincoln Power Mig 256Hypertherm PM 45Everlast 140STSmith O/A
Reply:Originally Posted by SidecarFlip Never run any disc nachine with an  open station tractor unless your life insurance is paid up.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammIt's really a matter of apples and oranges  I'm on the small side, and couldn't justify fancy equipment, although it would be nice.  I'd still keep my twine tied bales though.What you can do, in lieu of using moisture monitors, is grab a good handful of the hay in the winrow and try to snap it.  About a 1-2" thick wad.  If it just bends the grass without an audible snap it's not ready for baling.  If the grass stems snap when bent it's ready to wrap.  But ya gotta get down off that air conditioned tractor to do itA lot of guys around here insist on "wet" hay.  They like it baled green, and then wonder why they get mold halfway thru the Winter.  I guess it's a matter of trying to teach old dogs new tricks.  A good dry bale will last a few seasons without much deterioration.  Any deterioration is mostly caused by ground moisture wicking up into the bale, and rain making its way into the bale from the top.Ah well, better get after it before the heat gets bad today.  Ought to go a bit better today WITHOUT THE KILLER OVERDOSE OF BENADRYL, CHLOR-TRIMETHON, AND CLARITIN I WAS CARRYING INSIDE MY GUT YESTERDAY, TOPPED OFF BY BEER (TWAS BEER NITE)
Reply:Originally Posted by manningTwine vs net comes down to speed in feeding for me. I can load a trailer with bales resting against each other, drive to the cows, cut the strings and pull them out without needing to move a single bale. Can't do it with net wrap. You start yanking at the wrap from one side of the bale and it will always pull hay out. You have to set that bale all by its lonesome and lead that wrap around the bale a few times to get it off. Don't even think about cutting it. That just makes it worse.
Reply:Originally Posted by SidecarFlipOur rounds are all fed vertically, in custom made feeders off the ground.  Feeding is a simple matter of slicing one side of the net bale vertically and pulling off the net, about a 10 second oiperation.In 8 years, I've never unwound one, don't need to.
Reply:I feed my wifes nags (horses) with one and we have 4 that we use in our feedlot operation.  I copied someone's commercial design (Klene Pipe Structures), they offer a feeder from galvanized steel that carries a 4-4,4-5 or 4-6 round, vertically.  I added roofs and made them from  angle stock.  Their's is expensive, mine are made from scrap yard materials.  Animals don't care about galvanizing, they care about food.Good stick welding practice.  Each one weighs complete about 1000 pounds, skid mounted so we can pull them around, if need be.  We fork the bales in (we store the bales in the hay barns on end, 3 and 4 high and load the feeders that way.  Close the door, take a box cutter, slit the net, pull off and see ya in 3 days.  Takes a minute.  Besides, I hate oval bales (and so do my customers) and rounds store better on end, on wooden pallets, off the ground.  They come out of the barn as good (and green) as they went in.  I have a Clear span Truss Arch engineered building built on an engineered sand floor with retaining walls, it's 15 high, 45 feet wide and 120 feet long with roll up doors on the ends and solar fans for air circulation.  I can unload a semi inside if need be.Ours (feeders) have swing down gates on each side and solid wall on the back and solid swing loading door in the front.  The swing down gates have bars spaced far enough apart where a steer or a nag can get their mouth in, but nothing else.  The get one mouthful at a time, no more.  As they eat a bale down, the swing gates follow the bale down, until it's goneI cut my usage in half, no pissed on hay on the ground, no nasty crap hay thats wet around the feeders.  Made life and feeding a whole lot easier.I started out with those stupid round bale hoops, you know, they ones you drop around the bale and the steers push them around and piss on the hay anyway, the bale is on the ground so it gets spoiled and they are a PITA.  Those are long gone.You can look at Klene's and copy it because it's not rocket science.  I just sized mine to slip fit a base sheet of 1 and 1/2 sheets of 3/4 40 retention CDX and the sides are sized for full 4x8 sheets.  That way I get no waste and it's easy to cut and fit (I'm not good with wood)....lol  Shed roofs on 2x4 PT rafters sitting on a metal ledger welded to the uprights.The last year we ran no feeders we went through 500 4x5's.  Last winter we used 300  (4x4's) (because it was colder) than usual.  Thats running full tilt.Best part is there isn't any nasty, moldy, pissed on hay to compost.  Goes in the front, comers out the back, goes in the sideslinger.My real issue with twine is we typically run at maximum hydraulic pressure so the bales are real tight.  The net isn't an issue but the twine, if we use twine, tends to sink into the bales and it's a PITA to cut and pull out.  Kind of like cutting a guitar string under tension.  I want and strive for a minimum 1000 pound bale in 4x4 and 13 in 4x5 and whatever I can get in a 4x6 (depending on roill pressure).  I've rolled 2 grand bales in 4x6 in clover over wheat straw.  Those are a big hit.  The steers think thats candy.Besides, my customers who use our rounds, know they are getting their money's worth.  No loose crappy rounds on this operation.  You thump our rounds, they sound like wood.I'm not photogenic but you can look at the Klene and get a good idea of what I built myself.  Just get your stick welder out in the driveway, some scrap angle, plywood, cheap shingles and a bit of imagination.One of these days I'll get around to building a table to take rounds and make small squares.  Nice wintertime pastime.
Reply:I'm a dairy operation. If I  see straw in bales, they are as good as bedding me. Even with clover in them. The fiber in them will kill my milk production.Lincoln Precision Tig 185Lincoln Power Mig 256Hypertherm PM 45Everlast 140STSmith O/A
Reply:Originally Posted by SidecarFlipI'm a tea totaler myself.  alcohol and machinery don't mix well.  I have all my fingers (and little brain left).
Reply:I only use 2 styles of feeder here.One with an end gate that can be used if the loader tractor breaks down.  I can get a bale in it with a regular tractor and a bale spike if need be.And a more traditional style.Both are virtually indestructible.  The commercial feeders are pure crap.We're not real fancy folk around here"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by manningI'm a dairy operation. If I  see straw in bales, they are as good as bedding me. Even with clover in them. The fiber in them will kill my milk production.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammI only use 2 styles of feeder here.One with an end gate that can be used if the loader tractor breaks down.  I can get a bale in it with a regular tractor and a bale spike if need be.And a more traditional style.Both are virtually indestructible.  The commercial feeders are pure crap.We're not real fancy folk around here
Reply:Originally Posted by SidecarFlipI have a good friend who has a large dairy operation.  Not for me.  I like vacations.Actually, the government is killing your operation, little by little.
Reply:Originally Posted by manningWe direct market our milk (bottled milk, yogurt, and ice cream) through our own stores and grow our own crops. We try to control our destiny through vertical integration.
Reply:In the real world here in OK, most of us don't have barns to store hay.  It sets on the ground all year long.  So there's damage to the bottom of the bale, so it doesn't matter if it sets on the ground when fedI looked at the Kleine feeders..........look pretty cool Just about any fancy feeder will work with grass hay, it's short stemmed, and if not, it's easy to pull out of the bale.Long stem coarse hay like Haygrazer would NOT work in the fancy feeders.  Be a waste of money.  They gonna pull that long stuff out no matter how many gates grates and other falderol ya got in the wayNow grass hay is another matter.  It doesn't matter what kind of feeder it is as long as it keeps the cows out of the bale  They simply have less of a tendancy to scatter "easy" hay.And I'd hate to dig that fancified Kleine out of the mud when it sinks like all of them do.  I'll go for heavy iron every time, and simple iron at that.Matter of fact.........was hard to dig MYSELF out of the mud this morning  Was a real mess taking the last 2 pics"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:On the way out the door I had one more thought.I'm thinking I need some of those gourmet cows, maybe they come with air conditioned tractorsI have a sneaking suspicion that most of mine wind up at McDonalds, or Arby's "Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:We prefer net because the smooth outside sheds rain better. Ice sucks no matter what. I hate when bales don't have enough twine or net on them.  Manning you should rethink your view on straw many people have started feeding1-2 lbs of wheat straw per head. Helps with digestion and slows things down so they are more efficientMillermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammOn the way out the door I had one more thought.I'm thinking I need some of those gourmet cows, maybe they come with air conditioned tractorsI have a sneaking suspicion that most of mine wind up at McDonalds, or Arby's