Plasma Decision

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Hi, I'm a newbie here, looking for info on plasma cutters.  I have a Lincoln 200 mig welder that I use for fabrication of parts for my full size Bronco crawler.  I'm a hobbyist, not a professional, but I did a 6 month apprenticeship at an offroad fab shop when I started welding.  I have a few other tools, like a JD2 bender, 80 gal 2 stage compressor, oxy/acetylene torch set, etc.  I've used a Thermal Dynamics Pakmaster 50XL and an old Hypertherm 110v/230v machine at other people's shops. I have a bonus from work on the way and have decided it is time for a Plasma cutter to be added to my home shop.  I primarily work with 1/4" plate for brackets and tabs.  I don't anticipate working with much thicker materials.  I want good performance in 1/4" and thinner materials.  I'm trying to decide on a plasma, but don't know if one of the 110/230v 30 amp models will work well enough, or if I will kick myself for not getting a 230v 40+ amp machine.  Bigger is always better, but I like the price range of the 30 amp machines, and they would leave me the budget for a cold saw.  Budget is $1500.  I've been looking at the specs on the following 30 amp machines:Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38 $935Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster True 39 $1020Hypertherm 30 $955Miller 375 $1028Miller 375 X-Treme $1116For the 30 amp machines the cut speed specs in 1/4" are 20 IPM, except for the Hypertherm 30 at 33 IPM.  Can anyone chime in with experiences about the different 30 amp machines, both good and bad?  Are the published cut speeds close to real world conditions?  Are there compromises with the small portable units that make them less desirable?  Are any of them particularly better/worse on consumables?  I plan on running a good air filter.If I were to go for a 40 amp machine I'd be looking at these:Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 51 $1372Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster True 52 $1469Hypertherm 600 $1520Miller 625 $1530Thanks for any info.Mitch
Reply:Myself, I have a Miller 375.  I bought it for portability reasons... mostly Generator powered.  I am finding however, that I have quickly outgrown it.  That, and I got a taste of a 40 amp machine... More power is better.  I am not insulting the 375 in any way shape or manner... it has cut everything I have decided to throw at it.  If you can swing it and don't need to be portable, get a 40A machine... you won't regret it.
Reply:I'm not planning on using a generator, just the 200A service in my house.  I can see your point about getting bitten by the 40 amp machine bug.  Let's see what others have to add.
Reply:Originally Posted by BroncoAZI'm not planning on using a generator, just the 200A service in my house.  I can see your point about getting bitten by the 40 amp machine bug.  Let's see what others have to add.
Reply:https://www.hypertherm.com/library/f...to890430r4.pdfYou always want to compare cutting speed and duty cycle.  And price, of course...that Hypertherm 30 price you list is a real steal.  I have found that my 60 amp Hypertherm does what the marketing hype said it should do...and more.  It cuts accurate and fast, fast, fast.  No need to maintain an air gap; just drag the cup.  And a big plus is the consumables last a long time--but I have very clean shop air supply used for spraying paint.  No moisture compressed air is a must for whatever brand you buy.When I made my decision to buy Hypertherm, it was based on being made right here in the USA by a company that doesn't do anything else but plasma.  Here is the technical side of things:  http://www.hypertherm.com/languages/...ion_plasma.phpOne thing to remember is it takes more amps to cut aluminum than steel, if aluminum bracketry could be in your future.Last edited by 69 chevy; 10-29-2007 at 09:38 AM.WeldingWeb forum--now more sophomoric banter than anything else!
Reply:I have the Thermal Dynamics 38 and have never had a problem (other then running out of consumables on a Sunday). It is a great machine, but recently I have the bug to buy a larger machine(the 50 or 75) so it can cut larger material better. I would only suggest staying away of a unit with a build in compressor.
Reply:i am in a similar position to possibly buy a plasma in the near to reletivly near future. i am very pleased with my lincoln welder (even though its a 100HD) and am confident that the LE brand is a good one. i'd liketo stay with LE if at all possible, but know that the other brands are great as well... my main question for everyone is:What consumables are associated with a Plasma Cutter? obviously there are tips and gas, but is there anything else?also, for a smaller plasma cutter (30 Amp, simialr to what we are talking about here), what is the average air consumption? i ahve a 6.5 HP, 11 Gallon compressor, but it seems to run out of air pretty quickly when i use the pneumatic tools (ROS, Impact Gun, and larger Die-grinder). woudl i ahve to upgrade my dad's compressor to efficiently/effectively use a plasma cutter of this size?thanks!Later,Andy
Reply:Tips and the center electrode... Air and electricity.  My unit has a do-dad holder built into the side of it.  I run tips till they're a stump, and buy them 5 at a time.  It's not that it goes thru them very quick... it's due to the fact it'll never fail - You're right in the middle of a big project, Sunday afternoon, and melt a tip.4.5 cfm @ 60 psi for the Miller Spectrum 375.  The specs on your compressor should be listed somewhere on it.
Reply:I've got the cutmaster 38 an love it. Thermal Dynamics is best IMO. Consumables last longer, and are alot cheaper than the competition. I love Miller welders, but I would definately not buy a Spectrum. Do some searching here and on other forums, especially the Miller forum. I've seen tons of threads about trouble with them.Hypertherm would be my second choice, if Thermal Dynamics didn't exist that's what I'd buy. If you do some searching you will find many threads about troubles with them too. I haven't seen any with problems on a cutmaster, And only one or two about old pakmasters.The Cutmaster 38 is rated at 3/8" quality at 1/2" and sever at 5/8". I've cut 3/4" with mine and it did a nice job of it, slow, but still nice.Last edited by Joe H; 10-30-2007 at 07:14 PM.Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:Thermodynamics and Hypotherm are the two best plasma cutters out there. Their research and development is by far the best. I tried out several plasma cutters out but came down to the TD cutmaster 38 and the Hypo 380. I bought the TD cutmaster 38. the big reasons were the TD seem to have a little more power, had a higher rating in material thickness ability, and Consumables were half the price of all the others which was a big savings.I have had my plasma cutter for over a year now and it has been one of the best buys and tools I ever bought. I have pushed it to the limits a few times and it preformed perfectly.Thats my 2 cents and good luck on your purchaseHere is a link to this same question someone had awhile back. might be worth the read.  http://www.weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=6815Miller DVI2Lincoln Precision Tig 225Thermodynamics Cutmaster 38Everything else needed.
Reply:MILLER RULEZZZZZZZZ !  Realistically Miller, Lincoln and the HTP companies are good. If you go into a large shop, you'll see either HT or TD. The company I justfinished working for had a large CNC plasma table with a HUGE TD unit.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Originally Posted by MicroZoneMILLER RULEZZZZZZZZ !  Realistically Miller, Lincoln and the HTP companies are good. If you go into a large shop, you'll see either HT or TD. The company I justfinished working for had a large CNC plasma table with a HUGE TD unit.
Reply:I read that other post, very informative.  It seems that many like both the TD 38 and the Hypertherm 30.  I hadn't see that thread when I searched the site before my initial post.I got an e-mail response from one of the online retailers today about the new TD models 39 and 52.  I omitted their prices on the 39/52 as they are not set in stone yet, the TD38 is $935 shipped, the TD51 is $1384, both include the free torch set:Thanks for your interest in Cyberweld.  You have all of your specs correct...the Cutmaster 52 should be a pretty incredible upgrade from the old 51.  If the free Victor Oxy-Acetylene kit doesn't excite you...it might be worth the wait.  We are anxiously anticipating the release of these machines to the East Coast, so that we will be able to sell them.  They are currently in limited release only in the Central U.S.   The date we have currently been issued for release is November 15th.  Originally the date was November 1st, however it was pushed back to the 15th at this point.  Apparently Thermal is having some problems with manufacturing and are not sure when they will catch up.  We do not have definite pricing yet, as Thermal Dynamics can technically "adjust" the pricing anytime from now until the official East Coast release...but based on the pricing we have been issued so far we suspect our price to be approximately $xxxx.  Again, don't hold me to that, but if they went up on our site today that is the price we would have on them. The Cutmaster 39 has the same story, with an approximate price of $xxx.  Keep in mind though that the 39 is not much of an improvement from the 38, they are just rating it lower. I've purchased things from them in the past with great service, so I wouldn't hesitate to use them again.  I'm still torn between the Hypertherm 30, and the Thermal Dynamics 38/39.  I've ruled out the Miller and Lincoln machines.  Looking at the cost difference between the TD 38 and the new TD 52 ($534), I'm thinking the wife will be much happier if I keep the plasma under $1K.  After hearing from Cyberweld about the differences between the 38/39 if I had to order something today it would be the 38.  I don't need a free torch set as I have a Harris set, but I could try to ebay it to recover some costs.  I'm rambling on now, but I guess it comes down to which is better, the TD 38 or the Hypertherm 30?
Reply:Well, the Hypertherm 30 is the same machine as the spectrum 375, if that helps any.Again, go look on the Miller forum at the problems people have been having.Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:I think you are choosing for the best two. I would look into which suppler for consumables, maintenance, and service is closer to you and if you want to deal with them. It might be a deciding factor, but as I post above the consumables for the TD are half the price of the Hypo. This may not be that big of deal but its a nice savings. Where I live the TD tip and electro are $16.00 for the pair were the Hypo is $32.00. Depending on what I am doing, I can save a few bucks pretty quick.Again good luck. Make sure to let us know what you get and what you think of it.Miller DVI2Lincoln Precision Tig 225Thermodynamics Cutmaster 38Everything else needed.
Reply:The tip and electrode for my TD from my LWS are less than $9 for the pair. I get 6 of each for a little over $50, including tax.Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:Cyberweld updated their web site with the new TD 39 at $952 and TD 52 at $1405.  Both of these prices are lower than what they told me in the e-mail I posted yesterday.  The ship date on the 52 is 11/19, there's no note on the 39.
Reply:Joe H....The Hypertherm Powermax 30 is a totally different machine than the Miller 375. Hypertherm's new 30 is made in New Hampshire (about 100' from my desk!) and the Miller is made in Wisconsin. Both are good units....but the Hypertherm has a speed advantage and longer consumable life.Jim
Reply:Jim,I was under the impression that the PowerMax30 and the 375 Extreme were also pretty much the same machine.Care to expand on what you've found are differences? In reading the online literature, its a littel tough to decifer, since their rated outputs seem similar, but the cut thickness/quality seem different.I'm about to purchase and have priced both from the LWS. The PowerMax 30 at $1200, the 375 extreme at $1215. Both prices include the case/kit option. So, as far as price goes, a flip of the coin.Sorry - don't mean to hijack the thread - just thought it would be nice if others had more clarity into these two prodcut differences.Mike
Reply:Same impression here. The story is that Hypertherm makes the machine for Miller. I think I read that on the Miller website even.Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:I checked out the hypertherm 30 at the LWS on Friday.  That thing is tiny on the shelf, like an old lunchpail.  The manager suggested the 600 for 1/4", saying that the 30 will do it, but the 600 will do it better and faster.The wife encouraged me to get the new Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster True 52.  She said that after the almost 8 years together that she knew I wouldn't be happy with the smaller machine.  She's probably right. Mitch
Reply:Originally Posted by Joe HI love Miller welders, but I would definately not buy a Spectrum. Do some searching here and on other forums, especially the Miller forum. I've seen tons of threads about trouble with them.
Reply:Not to make this a Ford/Chevy debate, but everyone will have problems with their equipment at one point or another.  I have a Spectrum 375, and other than wishing I'd have bought a bigger unit, I can't say that it has given me any fits.  I've air-arced with it, pushed it way into the duty cycle, run it on crappy power ( under powered generator ), and it don't complain.I guess as long as you buy from a reputable manufacturer you shouldn't be able to go wrong.  If it's from China, I'd watch out for Lead.
Reply:Originally Posted by BroncoAZI checked out the hypertherm 30 at the LWS on Friday.  That thing is tiny on the shelf, like an old lunchpail.  The manager suggested the 600 for 1/4", saying that the 30 will do it, but the 600 will do it better and faster.The wife encouraged me to get the new Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster True 52.  She said that after the almost 8 years together that she knew I wouldn't be happy with the smaller machine.  She's probably right. Mitch
Reply:I went ahead and ordered the 52 yesterday.  If they don't ship it until 11/19 from the east coast I'm guessing I won't get it until 11/26.  I may be gone for work that week, so it could be December before I get to play with it.  I'll post my findings after I get it plugged in.  I'm not anticipating any disappointment.MitchOriginally Posted by BroncoAZI went ahead and ordered the 52 yesterday.  If they don't ship it until 11/19 from the east coast I'm guessing I won't get it until 11/26.  I may be gone for work that week, so it could be December before I get to play with it.  I'll post my findings after I get it plugged in.  I'm not anticipating any disappointment.Mitch
Reply:I have the Hypertherm 600. Ive cut miles  of 1/4" plate with it. It cuts 1/4" like butter. Ive severed 1" square stock a few times as well. The 1" stuff looked like a O/A cut done by a hack but, it cut it.Also, its nice to see another fullsize bronco guy here.Heres mine. Attached Images"I need this parade like I need a hole in the head"~John F.Kennedy
Reply:Cyberweld sent me a ship notice on Wednesday 11/14 at 4pm EST.  The Fedex guy just dropped off my new Cutmaster 52 this morning (Saturday 11/17)     3 days from NJ to AZ is not bad.  The tracking info said it wouldn't be arriving until 11/20.Now I need to wait for my air filter to show up before I can fire it up  First impressions pulling it out of the box: It is much more stylized than the previous cutmaster line.  It's not as big as I thought it would be, about the same as the old cutmaster 38.  It looks like a quality product that I will enjoy the heck out of.Machine porn attached.Mitch Attached Images
Reply:I've made some major suspension changes since this pic was taken, but it's representative of what I do to/with mine  Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by slamdvwTips and the center electrode... Air and electricity.  My unit has a do-dad holder built into the side of it.  I run tips till they're a stump, and buy them 5 at a time.  It's not that it goes thru them very quick... it's due to the fact it'll never fail - You're right in the middle of a big project, Sunday afternoon, and melt a tip.4.5 cfm @ 60 psi for the Miller Spectrum 375.  The specs on your compressor should be listed somewhere on it.
Reply:Post deletedLast edited by jimcolt; 10-12-2008 at 05:31 PM.