building a heavy duty belt grinder

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hey guys, I've wanted a belt grinder for the longest time. once you've used a belt grinder you will never want to go back to grinding on stones again, that's for sure  plus they can do so much more. I've pretty much decided that the most popular, common and versatile size for something like this is the 2" x 72" belt grinder. this is a very popular configuration and there are many different types and styles available and a really wide range of belts too. a grinder like this is much more versatile than a standard 4" belt sander type setup, although yeah there are going to be times that a 4" belt surface will be better than a 2", the 2" is enough for most common stuff and the configuration of the longer 2" allows much more versatility in available attachments.there are several configurations of these grinders. there's the simple 2 wheel although not so common with a 72" belt, those are more likely going to be the 60" belts or the 48" belts... then there are the 3 wheel which is probably the most common, think stuff like the burr king belt grinders.... then there is the 4 wheel, or what's commonly called a square wheel grinder. then there's the type that turns me on the most, which is the adaptable KMG style which converts from 3 wheel to 4 and converts from single contact wheel to flat platen, etc... these types of grinders I've been looking at and using to generate ideas for my grinder use a replaceable tool arm and these tool arms can be set up with one contact wheel in many different sizes, and a simple swap of tool arm can give you a flat platen with 2 small wheels at either end instead of single contact wheel... you can also use a tool arm with 2 smaller wheels and no platen between them for slack belt grinding, great for tubes and round stock....some of these grinders attach the work rest right to the tool arm but some of these grinders may also use 2 tool arms, one for the grinding contact part and then another for a work rest, separately adjustable, and of course this gives a more rigid, stronger setup.now just so you can see what I have in mind and what I'm talkking about in case your not familiar with these things, here's a picture of the very popular KMG setup.and there website: http://www.beaumontmetalworks.com/as you can see this is a relatively simple setup and the web is full of tons of guys who have built what's become known as KMG clones, of course many will try to copy it as accurately as they can, while others may modify and overbuild, hell there's even a guy out there who built one completely in stainless steel. these are somewhat reasonably priced and I almost just bought one of these but I have a few ideas in mind that I know I can improve upon and make mine even more versatile and adaptable to different things...then there's the TW-90,and there website: http://www.twuertz.com/ this thing is similar to the KMG but it's designed to also flip from the common vertical setup to a horizontal setup which is really cool. once I seen this setup I knew that I def want the ability to go from vertical to horizontal, I would have loved to buy one of these TW-90's but there extremely expensive and they are only sold complete with motor and speed control, at $3,400. they do give you a nice selection of tooling and it is an awesome piece really, but $3,400 is just way more than I can stomach for just my own hobby type use of thisI really like the versatility a lot of these belt grinders have and I also have a lot of ideas to add to these too, so in the end I really left myself no choice but to build one to get everything I want out of it. since I'm building it myself I decided that I can make mine more heavy duty. I want the versatility and function of the TW-90 but much more beefy and the ability to add more to it, so that's what I've set out to do.I decided to build mine out of 1/2" steel and I decided that instead of building it as a bench top unit like most I would instead build mine on a pedestal stand that gets bolted down to the floor as I have ideas of also making quick change adapters to also run either a 3" belt or even a 4" belt when the need arises. the main reason I'd like to run at least a 3" belt is for pipe coping, pipe notching...there are several grind belt type pipe coping machines out there, they are much heavier than these little 2" x 72" grinders in general but of course that's because there built to do a different job. well I want to also build this ability into my grinder. here is a picture of a scotchman tube coping/notching grinder, this thing starts at around the $5k mark the scotchman uses a 4" belt (there's a 6" version as well) but I've also found another pipe notching unit that uses a 3" belt which is probably what I'll adapt to. that one would be the Grit by FEIN, shown here with it's add on pipe notcher assy which they built as a modular add on unit, the majority of the bulk in there add on piece is the dust catcher and rolling stand with tool storage, he main functioning part though is similar to the scotchman, just an articulating vice with threaded feeds to adjust and feed the pipe into the notcher beltso what I want to build is an adaptable hybrid type belt grinder that can be used like the KMG and the TW-90, but also be adaptable to become a pipe notching setup too eventually, and I also want to make an attachment for surface grinding which is another whole thing on top of these other things, so I really want a versatile rigid setup that can take whatever I throw at it. if you research these grinders you'll see that belt speed, or more specifically belt surface speed and horsepower are what separates many of these machines and really defines the work it can do. something like the burr king may have the ability to run there belts at up to 8,000 SFPM (surface feet per minute) and more where many of the lesser units are just direct motor drive and many can barely even reach 5,000 sfpm if that... there is a huge difference in running a 36 grit roughing belt at 4,400 sfpm and at 8,000 sfpm.... if you've ever used a burr king you'd see that they take off metal like it's nothing. I'm building mine to go up to those really high sfpm's but I'm also using a variable frequency drive so I can adjust the speed all the way down to the 700 and 800 sfpm range which is also useful and necessary for some things too, and of course any speed in between. different grinding belts need different surface speeds and then there are polishing belts and 3m scotchbrite type belts, etc... variable speed is almost a must with a setup like thisI'll put up pictures of what I have so far in my next post because the pictures are too large and they'll cut of all my text if I ad it to this post miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:ok, so here is what I have so far. all 1/2" thick steel. the tool bars are 1.5" square solid bar. I played around with several different configurations, went from 2 tool arms to 3 and then eventually 4,also played around with the idea of 2 main tool arms and an aux 1.5" x .5" arm tooI eventually decided on 4 full 1.5" square arms for my grinderyou can always not use one two or even three of the receivers if you don't need to, but at least when you do need too, they are there... miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:and here it is in my final 4 arm setup. first pic shows the scale to a 72" belt and I used a 1.5" x .5" bar in one receiver because I need more 1.5" square stock  and here is the 2HP 3 phase SS washdown motor I bought for this thing... a motor like this is best for all the grinding dust that is generatedmiller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:you can get good priced contact wheels and backstands here---http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/index.php?cPath=659_775miller thunderbolt 250vlincoln square wave tig 175 prolincoln idealarc mig sp250everlast tig 210EXTeverlast power plasma 50chicago electric (hf) 130 tig/90 arcchicago electric 90 amp flux wire3 sets oxy/acet
Reply:I hear ya mick, and I agree to a certain extent. I do buy stuff, sure don't make most of my tools  actually I'm building this myself and the money I save can be used to buy a lot of other tools I need I did consider the radiusmaster, would be ~$2,500 to my door, what turned me off was the lower fixed speed of only 3,600 sfpm and the smaller 2" X 48" belt. I guess I would be more than happy with a radiusmaster if I bought one but this is just for home hobby stuff, not making money with, I'd rather build my heavier custom grinder and have it cost me a grand complete, including the tooling and the 2HP variable speed VFD setup. then the $1,500 I save can get me my 3 axis dro for my mill, my water cooled tig torch and even a nice quick change tool post setup for my lathe, so I didn't think it was such a bad deal  building it myself. it's actually not even such a complicated build either really, I couldn't help it, it just made the most sense for me I guess boatbouy, thanks for the link. I already ordered a grizzly 10" rubber contact wheel and will probably buy some misc stuff from Beaumont steel, there's also a really good contact wheel place that supplies many of the other contact wheel sellers, check out http://www.sunray-inc.com/miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:tonight I started to weld the inner X part, I have to keep all the edges pointy and square so the receiver arms can slide in, so I beveled the edges so the weld will be inside the steel deep enough that even if I file the edges back to a sharp corner they'll still be welded together strong. I'm welding it little by little, trying to space my welds evenly around the X, trying to control warpage... I'm welding this all out at 200 amps on the dynasty 200, 1/8 tungsten, 1/16 filleroh, and mick I take shots with my phone, then upload them to photobucket right through an app on the phone,don't have an easy way to resize, and really it's not killing any of my text on any of my posts, just need to be aware of it and it's really not a problem miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:I built my own a few years ago but instead of using solid square stock and heavy plate, I just went for heavy walled tubing. Granted the appearance of the machine is not the same but it gets you there a lot quicker.Mikel
Reply:I've enjoyed following your builds so I'm curious to see this and how it works out.Gregor
Reply:thanks bro, and yeah, really heavy walled tube will do the job, it doesn't really need to be very heavy, it just needs to be rigid enough that the wheels will not deflect and nothing flexes to keep the belt inline and tracking right. any more rigid than that will just help absorb vibrations and prevent any bending or deflections if it's abused. I could now use 1.5" tube for some of my receiver tool arms too if I want but I wanted to at least build the base strong enough to take anything I might decide to throw at it later I originally was considering building one of these much lighter than what I did, originally I was considering even building a round tubular frame, but my garage is very small and I figured the real essence of this thing I'm building is a heavy duty 4 receiver post bolted to the floor. it will make a great grinder but it also can be used for many other things when it's not doing grinding duty. the stand and receivers are strong enough to hold a medium sized vice no problem, hell this stand with receivers can hold a lot of different things when not used as a grinder. plus this stand will have a 2HP 3 phase adjustable speed drive built into it, so there are other accessories that can attach to this head and be belt driven too, the limits are up to your imagination really... I can make a removable quick change head that has a router bit stick up through a platen, I could build a head that takes a 7 1/4" carbide metal blade through a platen and make a small metal table saw attachment, a larger blade might get to be too dangerous... I could have made a pipe beveler attachment if I didn't already make a pipe beveler, an adjustable feed angle feeding vice for grinding exact angles in stock, a surface grinding attachment, hell I can think of so many things that can add to the usefulness of this in my shop, if more than one tool can occupy one space in the garage that's def a good thing, and if it never does anything more than just grind it's still worthwhile I think...so far all this steel cost me $200. I bought a 10" rubber contact wheel for $85 shipped to me and the 2HP SS sealed motor cost me around $100 shipped, the VFD for the motor is a little over $200 so right now I'm at ~ $600. I still need a few pillow block bearings, a drive wheel and shaft, a belt pulley and an idler pulley, a few smaller wheels for a flat platen and maybe a smaller 5" contact wheel which should put me around a grand all in I think... not that I'm limiting myself there but that should do it really, I'm sure eventually I'll add more stuff to this, more contact wheel sizes and stuff like that... I'm not set on limiting it to a grand but that should do the whole basic setup really...miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:oh, and mick, my time doesn't cost me nothing, that's for sure, I'm probably going to be in the 10-15 hour range by the time I finish this thing, even at that it's still a bargain even if I paid myself by the hour compared to what's commercially available, my payment will come in the form of more tools though  miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:Hey Turbo, special thanks for posting this thread.  Am using an old Craftsman 6x48 belt / 9"disc right now, and it's a real struggle just to keep the belt tracking!   Almost no precision, Very little power, no speed adjustability.  You've reminded me how mine sux and inspired me to look into building my own.  Looking forward to watching your progress posts!  Thanks
Reply:I'm using about the same piece of crap myself right now, can't wait to throw it out, using it to finish building this grinder actually and the new grinder has to fit in the same space as the old belt sander so I'm building it in a way that even when it tilts on it's side it still fits in the designated space for it miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:a bit more progress on this thing and a few more parts came in miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:this is a sweet build. i wish i could just "toss it on the mill and get a square corner". I would be there for weeks, trying to get the same result with a hand file. some day ill have my own mill. but then again. I can toss a sheet of steel and cut out parts on my CNC plasma, so i guess you gotts pick your battles.Offering CNC Plasma cutting and welding projects.Follow me on facebook https://www.facebook.com/nobigdeal.fabSupport those that support WW.
Reply:Here is a 2x72 KMG clone belt grinder I built a few years ago. I used square tube and it has held up great. 1 Hp  DC motor and variable speed controller. Bought the contact and drive wheels from Beaumont metals. Everything included I have about $400 in it. Attached Images
Reply:Your grinder is leaps and bounds ahead of mine! good job. Sometimes its not just about saving the money its about the satisfaction of doing it yourself and making it your way.
Reply:I have a KMG and they are great. The build looks good so far but I am not clear on what the end product will be like but will watch to find out.Building your own may not be the cheapest route but it is very satisfying. I build a lot of my tools (not the KMG). Rob at Beaumont Metal Works is the KMG manufacturer and he is top notch.Here is my KMG on my pedestal stand. It is about 15 years old now. Attached Images
Reply:some more work on this thing, welded it all up solid with multiple passes and then I decided to make it all smooth like one big hunk of steel I left the top of the slot left of the main arm open for an idea I have of something that I may add in the future. miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:That is sharp! I am on pins and needles to see how this turns out.
Reply:ha, thanks I want the head to be really strong because I want to hang a cross slide vice off of it with a tube or bracket or whatever clamped in it.this thing should be strong enough to hold whatever I can get into the feed vice within reasonI left the open slot on top of slot #1 so I can mount a gear rack to the top of that arm and use it as a feed. not even a power feed really, but more like a feed with a leaver or wheel, kind of like a drill press, for controlled feed of angle grinding....when facing up and down the way this thing is laid out is like this :     1 23 4 #2 is the slot for the main grinding wheel or platen attachment.for the vice setup, the arm in slot #1 will be the feed arm with the gear rack on top, but the vice could actually have 2 receiver arms connected to it at the same time, in slots #1 and #4 across from each otherit would be very rigid because the 2 arms would take all of the swinging around slop out of it and support the weight well, yet it would still be able to easily ride in and out nice and straight.hell, if it really needed even more support it could actually have 3 arms at the same time in slots #1 #3 and #4, but 2 should be enough for most things I thinkthe idler pulley arm is the next thing I'm working on. one thing I noticed with all the grinders I've seen isthey pretty much all use similar idler wheel pulley angle adjustment setups, but what sucks with all the ones I've seen isthey don't track true throughout the arms whole range of motion.for example they work with the arm extended forward but not when the arm is raised all the way up because the hinge pivot rides on an arc.most are designed to work only with the arm extended straight forward but I want mine to be usable even when the arm is raised all the way for setups where I want to take up more slack in the belt.I want my idler wheel to hold it's adjustment throughout it's whole range of swing.only way I can think of to do that is to have 2 arms, like a cantilever setupI'll use 2 swing arms, and connect the spindle/knuckle in between to mount the idler wheel on, just like a cars suspension.2 equal length arms will keep the adjustable center spindle/idler wheel at the same level and adjustment plane throughout it's whole swing.here's a few shots of what I have in mind for the idler arms, position may change a bit. there will be 2 of these of course, one above the other.Last edited by turbocad6; 08-14-2012 at 02:33 AM.miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:That's looking great so far.
Reply:Its looking damn beautiful dude. Good work.It looks nice and solid!I wish I could justify a belt grinder like that, home made or store bought.  I have tool envy. Lol
Reply:I've been thinking about mounting a cross slide vice to this so I can clamp material to an angle and then grind it to the fixed angle and so I can use this to cope pipe.yesterday I seen this 6" palmgren machinist vice pop up on craigslist near me for $120 so I ran and grabbed it...I think this may be a bit too big and heavy for what I have in mind but I took it anyway, I could always use it on my drill press if it doesn't work out to be right for this grinders useafter seeing this vice I'm starting to think that the best way for me to implement an adjustable feed vice may just be to build it from scratch but I'm getting ahead of myself, I need to finish the grinder and have it all working before I start to play with add ons like this really...shown with the grinder head for scale...if I do use this thing for the grinder I will probably have to butcher it up a bit.I need the cross slides to go left and right and up and down instead of in and outin and out will be taken care of from the gear rack on the tool armI would proably use the 2 axis from this thing and then have to mount a smaller aticulating vice to this thing, using it as just a baseanother possible option may be to keep this thing intact and just have this vice clamp an aux vice that actually holds the work off to the sideI'll just keep this thing on the side for now until the main grinder is done at least...miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:man, is the text cut off? really didn't think so and it's not on my screen. I thought if I don't make any text line too long then it couldn't get cut off. if it is then I'll def look into a way to resize, I thought I was compensating for it and it wasn't a problem miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:wow, I just tried making my screen resolution smaller and now I see what you mean. I'm sorry man, didn't realize...miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....I tried to fix a few in photobucket but it doesn't seem to be working. I'll try to figure out a better way to deal with this, sorry again didn't even realize that smaller res screens will display the forum differently... I'll fix it or at least make sure not to do that anymore miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:Originally Posted by turbocad6some more work on this thing, welded it all up solid with multiple passes and then I decided to make it all smooth like one big hunk of steel I left the top of the slot left of the main arm open for an idea I have of something that I may add in the future.
Reply:um, what welded mess are you talking about??ha, just kidding   all you have to do is weld it up solid and fill it to above where you need it to be, then just simply grind it smooth and to the desired shape. if you have no craters or other nasties in your weld you will wind up with whats shown here. all I used was a 9" 24 grit 3m grinding disc, then a 6" DA with 80 grit, then the DA with 180 grit and then I went over it by hand with some emery cloth that's prolly in the 220 range or so... I didn't really try to get this thing to a full mirror finish and you'll see that I still left some heavier scratches in there from even the 24 grit because I will paint this thing so no need to get a scratch free flawless mirror finish really.. to get a scratch free mirror finish you'll want to do 24 grit shaping, then 36 grit, then 50, then 80 and so on all the way up to 1,500 or so then start buffing with rouge, if you're looking for a mirror finish then you should always make sure that you remove all the scratches from the previous grit with your current grit; IE: make sure you get all the 36 grit scratches out with the 50 because if you leave 36 grit scratches then the next grit of 80 will have a much harder time removing those 36 grit scratches, but the 80 grit will remove the 50 grit scratches easily. would have been nice to do if I built this out of all stainless I guess but that might be a little over the top miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:The welds were beautiful I am just jealous!
Reply:As for your pics, if you upload them to WW via the manage attachments, the forum software will resize any photos too big to display properly. If you link to photos stored on an external site, the forum won't do any resizing and your text will be cut off.PapaLincoln Idealarc 250 (circa 1962)Lincoln Weldpak 155 w/Mig KitLincoln Squarewave TIG 175
Reply:Any further progress on this grinder?  I've been waiting to see how it came out --Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:Originally Posted by papaharley03As for your pics, if you upload them to WW via the manage attachments, the forum software will resize any photos too big to display properly. If you link to photos stored on an external site, the forum won't do any resizing and your text will be cut off.Papa
Reply:Is the any particular reason to use the rubber wheel as the idle wheel? or is the same use the metal wheel as idle?Mauricio
Reply:are we there yet ?miller thunderbolt 250vlincoln square wave tig 175 prolincoln idealarc mig sp250everlast tig 210EXTeverlast power plasma 50chicago electric (hf) 130 tig/90 arcchicago electric 90 amp flux wire3 sets oxy/acet
Reply:I'll bet that having a belt sander would make a much quicker job of building that belt sander!  ;-)Dude...really...fabulous build.When I saw the title, I thought it was going to be 'cut a few square pipes and weld them up.'  (which would still have been a great thread), not someone designing a better mouse trap.  (of course, I am from the school of thought that if it worth taking the time to engineer, it is worth over-engineering, I would do any engineering).  Looking forward to seeing if this thing finished and seeing if it performs as well, or better, than commercial units.KevKevin / Machine_Punk from The Aerodrome Studio - Lincoln PowerMIG 210 MP - Meco N Midget w/custom welding station - Vintage Victor 100Current Projects: The Aerodrome Studio
Reply:yeah, past month or so I've just been so crazy busy at work that my little side projects just get pushed out of the way, hopefully I'll get this thing done soon just been too busy to even think about working in the garage after work... miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:Hey, give us an update! Your grinder looks too cool not to give us plebs some more pics.
Reply:This looks to be a real sturdy piece of equipment.   I have always wanted one for knifemaking... does sooo much better of a job on the blade then a sanding disk lol