Got a few questions

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Howdy, looking for a decent stick welder for under $500.  I don't have a 230v plug at my place, but I have a generator that has a plug on it that says 240v 30amps think that'll be enough?  I had my little 115v mig welder plugged into it the other night and it kept popping the breaker on the 115v 20A plug that's the only thing that was worrying me about the stick.  So anyone got any suggestions for a decent welder?  I want to use it to practice running 5P or whatever rods pipe welders use I want to try and get a job pipe welding somewhere down the road.  I can run 7018 decent, used to weld 7018 in 3/32" and 1/8" a good bit at my old job.  Right now I'm a welder/fabricator at a scrap metal yard I fix cans and tire crushers and excavators and that kinda stuff.  They only like us to use their MIG welders cause they're all about saving time and think it's the best way to go.  Next question:I have been working on a tire crusher this past week.  All pretty much 3/4" - 1" steel.  Today I was having a real tough time running vertical uphill when welding in 1" square stock to 1" plate for a support bracket.  It was real tight.  Machine is a Miller XMT 304 cc/cv running 3 phase into it through one of them big 650v plugs with .045 National Standard Copper Free wire.  The number on it is NS-101 CF.  (I don't much like this wire, find it to be very smoky.  Could be also cause the valve on the argon/co2 was set real high and I didnt realize it'd been changed and was welding with alot of gas.)  We ran out of the Weldcote copper wire and the NS was what we had.  Can't remember the specs on the wire feeder.  Anyways, for most of the project I had my settings at 23.5 and around 3 on the wire feed.  Welds were coming out awesome.  When I got to welding some vertical uphill I'm not sure what happened but it was puddling up and dripping.  I tried going faster, didn't help.  I messed around for awhile with the settings and couldn't find a good setting.  I had it down to 18.5 or so and the wire feeder just under 2 and it still would just penetrate the square stock real deep and then puddle up and drip.  I tried taking pictures but my phone's camera lens is real scratched up and the camera itself never was anything special to begin with (old flip phone)..anyways, anyone have any advice?  I don't know if the square stock is just old junk recycled steel or what.  It seemed to take the welds ok horizontally.  I did bevel it with the grinder and it was nice and clean.  I have to weld 5 more of them tomorrow and want to get it right.  Another question- these guys here have me welding dirty metal with flux core triple 7 .045 wire- with argon/co2 and the argon/c02 nozzle.  It makes for alot of slag and they dont let me grind at all they say just turn it the **** up and weld, no grinding allowed.   I've never heard of such a thing before.  I hate not grinding, it causes porosity sometimes if it's really dirty.  Anyways..what do yawl think of that?Ok last question:  My buddy says that you can stick weld with a tig machine.  Says you just use the pedal to control the arc and it comes out ok, any thoughts?Thanks much if you read through all my babbling! look forward to any replys!
Reply:Sadly you wont find a machine under $500 that will run 6010. Also most pipe welders are using 5/32 rod or sometimes 1/8. If not those two it is either 3/16 or a tig root. Either look for something used on craigslist for $1000-1500, rent a machine for a week to practice, or sign up for some pipe courses at a school.2) Why not just hit it with a wire brush really quick? I guess it depends what your welding and what its for. Must not be anything high stress...3) Not sure why you would want to do that... Tig is setup totally different than stick. If they were the same and all you needed was a foot pedal then why do they make different setups such as maxstars, dynasty's, synchrowaves, etc. Ive personally never tried it...and if i was too cheap to buy the right machine and needed something welded really quick then i would consider it i guess.
Reply:Originally Posted by BirdSadly you wont find a machine under $500 that will run 6010. Also most pipe welders are using 5/32 rod or sometimes 1/8. If not those two it is either 3/16 or a tig root. Either look for something used on craigslist for $1000-1500, rent a machine for a week to practice, or sign up for some pipe courses at a school..
Reply:Buy a used machine or a hobart stickmate and hire an electrician.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWNot quite true. You can find lots of machines that will run 6010 for under $500 used. The issue will be that they are all transformer units like Dialarcs and Idealarcs that will need more 230v power than he has available.To get a good machine that will run on 30 amps of 230v power, you will be looking at top of the line inverters like Maxstar 200's and Dynasty's. Both will have no issues running 6010, but even used your budget is too low. Less expensive inverters usually won't let you whip 6010 as the electronics can't handle the voltage changes like the more expensive units can.Most houses have 230v power available. If you have an electric dryer or stove, you have at least 30 amps of 230v power available, possibly 50 amps. Using an extension cord you can run most transformer stick machines at least at limited output. Gen sets however are a bit different. To get 30 amps of 230v power from a genset and try to run a stick machine, you'll need a gen set with at least a 10 KW continuous rating. You'd be better with a machine rated at at least 15 kw continuous. Most small gen sets may have a 30 amp plug, but they don't put out 30 amps of 230v power. Also most are rated at surge wattage, not continuous output. Un;ess you are running an inverter, you won't be able to do what you want most likely from a genny.Again not quite. Almost all tig machines with a few minor exceptions have no problem running stick. I've run stick on Dynasty's, Maxstars and Syncrowaves. All will run stick very nicely. TRue you get more functions with a tig machine, but you can still do stick with them. In fact many times you might want to tig in the root, then fill and cap with stick. Using a tig machine vs a stick machine gives you more options and flexibility.As far as using the pedal to run stick, you can, but most on average don't. You just set the machine to panel and stick mode, and it's no different than running stick on a Dialarc/Idealarc or the XMT you were using. Some guys like to use a remote amperage control to change the amps while welding in certain applications. You could set the machine higher than you might normally set it, then adjust up or down as needed.
Reply:4X4...If want to go new, for under $500, give a look at the ESAB Miniarc 161LTS.  They have dual voltage 115/230V, runs up to 110amps with 115V and 160amps with 230V.  Just switch out a jumper cord.  The power cord and both leads are 10 ft. long.  The 161 comes in a stick-only or a TIG model.  ESAB is a well-known, respected manufacturer.  http://esabna.com/esab/dbReplacement...ge%20Email.pdfThere is a misprint in the specs where it says 5A/110A on 230V.  It should read up to 160amps.  The welder is capable of running 6010 rods.I just purchased the stick model about 3 weeks ago and like it very much.  I have run Lincoln 3/32" 6010 rods with no problem.  I have only 115V/20amp wiring set up now (12 ga. Romex) and the welder works perfectly.  I normally run 3/32" or smaller rods, but tried out some 1/8" Fleetweld 6011 and Excalibur 7018 rods and they ran just fine.  The welder is very smooth and welds like a dream.  Build and construction is very high quality, as is typical for ESAB.As far as cost, my stick model was $468 out the door, incl TT&L from Scott-Gross store in Springfield, MO.  From the ads, the TIG model is about $200 more +/-.  Check out their website for online purchase.Last edited by shortfuse; 05-16-2013 at 10:29 PM.
Reply:The "$300 Lincoln arc welders they sell at lowes" are AC only units, so that rules them out for 6010. They typically sell used for $50-150 and you can find them regularly on CL. You can usually find the AC/DC ones used starting at $250, and the really nice industrial Idealarcs/Dialarcs, usually will run $400-600 and are way better than the "homeowner units as far as arc quality..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWAs far as using the pedal to run stick, you can, but most on average don't.
Reply:I paid $200.oo for a Lincoln Idealarc 250, and it SUCKS! It sucks every bit of the 50 amps I have to feed it with.  Attached ImagesCity of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:A Lincoln tombstone will trip a 30 amp breaker after 2 seconds of bead at 125 Amps.  I had mine on a Genny and came to realize this the hard way.   You may make it work with 3/32 rod, but 1/8" 7018 will not run.  I guess maybe 6010 might at 90 amps, never tried.   You're still only getting 125 amp max DC from one.Look into the Thermal Arc 161S on eBay.   It's dual voltage and had a lift arc tig option.  I believe it cost me $450 shipped brand new with case, leads, plugs and a cap.  The entire case and setup weighs around 35# so you can toss it in your car and take it places with you for small repairs.  It also has nearly best in class output on 120 volts.  I believe it puts out around 115 amps on 120 volts, but don't quote me on that.  It's such a convenient little machine that I grab it first when a small repair comes up.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Originally Posted by Drf255also has nearly best in class output on 120 volts.  I believe it puts out around 115 amps on 120 volts, but don't quote me on that.
Reply:The great deals on the Thermal Arc 161 models seem to have dried up.  Least expensive 161S I can find with TIG package is $726, $660. with just stick leads.  The ESAB can be had for under $500."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWAgain not quite. Almost all tig machines with a few minor exceptions have no problem running stick. I've run stick on Dynasty's, Maxstars and Syncrowaves. All will run stick very nicely. TRue you get more functions with a tig machine, but you can still do stick with them. In fact many times you might want to tig in the root, then fill and cap with stick. Using a tig machine vs a stick machine gives you more options and flexibility.As far as using the pedal to run stick, you can, but most on average don't. You just set the machine to panel and stick mode, and it's no different than running stick on a Dialarc/Idealarc or the XMT you were using. Some guys like to use a remote amperage control to change the amps while welding in certain applications. You could set the machine higher than you might normally set it, then adjust up or down as needed.
Reply:Originally Posted by joshuabardwellAt what input amperage?
Reply:Originally Posted by shortfuse4X4...If want to go new, for under $500, give a look at the ESAB Miniarc 161LTS.  They have dual voltage 115/230V, runs up to 110amps with 115V and 160amps with 230V.  Just switch out a jumper cord.  The power cord and both leads are 10 ft. long.  The 161 comes in a stick-only or a TIG model.  ESAB is a well-known, respected manufacturer.  http://esabna.com/esab/dbReplacement...ge%20Email.pdfThere is a misprint in the specs where it says 5A/110A on 230V.  It should read up to 160amps.  The welder is capable of running 6010 rods.I just purchased the stick model about 3 weeks ago and like it very much.  I have run Lincoln 3/32" 6010 rods with no problem.  I have only 115V/20amp wiring set up now (12 ga. Romex) and the welder works perfectly.  I normally run 3/32" or smaller rods, but tried out some 1/8" Fleetweld 6011 and Excalibur 7018 rods and they ran just fine.  The welder is very smooth and welds like a dream.  Build and construction is very high quality, as is typical for ESAB.As far as cost, my stick model was $468 out the door, incl TT&L from Scott-Gross store in Springfield, MO.  From the ads, the TIG model is about $200 more +/-.  Check out their website for online purchase.
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverI paid $200.oo for a Lincoln Idealarc 250, and it SUCKS! It sucks every bit of the 50 amps I have to feed it with.
Reply:I think I might just save up a bit more and get a gas welder that can run mig tig and stick and can be used as a generator.  I have a bit of run time on a Miller Trailblazer that my boss loaded in the back of my truck and didn't take out for 3 months so I could practice at home, also have runtime on his Miller bobcat 250, all this welding 7018 mainly 1/8"...also have some run time on the Lincoln Rangers that we service for the company pipewelders.  All the hired on pipewelders run some purdy fancy machines, most all diesels so they could fill up for free from the companys diesel tank.  Anyways, a cheap gas one would be nice but I don't have a machine to unload it.
Reply:here is the plug that the dryer is plugged into, anyone know if this will work for me?  on the dryer it says 240v if that helps.  I havent seen a 230v plug like this before, and the plugs we use at work are the big three phase ones, not sure what this one I have at home is referred to as.
Reply:Looks like a NEMA 10-30 plug/outlet that was used with older dryer installs. You should be good to 30 amps of 240v power. That would let you run 3/32" rods on most transformer based stick machines that normally draw 50 amps at rated output. I know a Miller Thunderbolt or Lincoln AC 225 would let you run at limited output. An Idealarc like shown above usually has a higher draw at rated capacity, but might still be useable with 3/32" rods on a 30 amp circuit..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by 4x4AmericanI checked out that site but it said unavailable, but i found it on amazon.com and wow that thing is tiny!
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWLooks like a NEMA 10-30 plug/outlet that was used with older dryer installs. You should be good to 30 amps of 240v power. That would let you run 3/32" rods on most transformer based stick machines that normally draw 50 amps at rated output. I know a Miller Thunderbolt or Lincoln AC 225 would let you run at limited output. An Idealarc like shown above usually has a higher draw at rated capacity, but might still be useable with 3/32" rods on a 30 amp circuit.
Reply:It would most likely need to be an inverter to run 1/8" rods like 7018 on that plug/outlet. The problem as mentioned before is that inexpensive inverters often have issues running 6010 whip and pause.The only other possible option is that the electric code will allow you to sometimes run larger breakers on undersized wires due to duty cycle with welders, but then you'd be out of code using the dryer on the larger breaker...  This might allow you the extra amperage you'd need to run 1/8" rods with an inexpensive  transformer machine. I'm hesitant to suggest this unless you have an electrician look at the install. Running larger breakers on small wires is a good way to cause a fire if you don't know exactly what you are doing. At that point, I'd just say have the electrician run you a new heavier rated line/circuit and be done with it. Depending on location of your electric panel, this may or may not be all that difficult. If the panel is fairly close to where you want to weld, if might be as simple as adding the breaker and a short length of wire and putting the outlet right near the panel, then you run an extension cord from there to where you want to weld. This would be the cheapest, if not the most elegant solution, since it's often running the wire from the panel to the location that is the biggest cost/hassle. It's also relatively doable yourself if you have some basic understanding of electricity and are comfortable with this sort or work in a panel..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by 4x4AmericanIs there a machine that I could run 1/8" with in that plug?
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWIt would most likely need to be an inverter to run 1/8" rods like 7018 on that plug/outlet. The problem as mentioned before is that inexpensive inverters often have issues running 6010 whip and pause.The only other possible option is that the electric code will allow you to sometimes run larger breakers on undersized wires due to duty cycle with welders, but then you'd be out of code using the dryer on the larger breaker...  This might allow you the extra amperage you'd need to run 1/8" rods with an inexpensive  transformer machine. I'm hesitant to suggest this unless you have an electrician look at the install. Running larger breakers on small wires is a good way to cause a fire if you don't know exactly what you are doing. At that point, I'd just say have the electrician run you a new heavier rated line/circuit and be done with it. Depending on location of your electric panel, this may or may not be all that difficult. If the panel is fairly close to where you want to weld, if might be as simple as adding the breaker and a short length of wire and putting the outlet right near the panel, then you run an extension cord from there to where you want to weld. This would be the cheapest, if not the most elegant solution, since it's often running the wire from the panel to the location that is the biggest cost/hassle. It's also relatively doable yourself if you have some basic understanding of electricity and are comfortable with this sort or work in a panel.
Reply:Originally Posted by joshuabardwellMy Everlast PA160STH maxes out at 29 amps/240 volts at full output (160 amps). 160 is more than enough to run any 1/8" rod I can think of. It's an inverter, which as others have pointed out, is more efficient than a transformer machine.