Help please with inside vertical corner fillet problems

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Hi Folks,I am practicing inside corner welds on 2x2 14g steel and having a hell of a time figuring out what is going wrong.I have tried 7014 and 6013 rod, in a variety of amps, angles of rod, speed, patterns, and I keep having the same problems. I have been running DC reversed.Basically I can't get the fillet to fill the corner. The bead always attaches to one side, leaving a gap in the corner joint (that often fills with slag). If I try to weave it back and forth a bit to fill, the bead just jumps from one side to the other, not filling between. Like I said above, I have tried cranking up the amps, slowing down, increasing my angle.Mostly I have been welding downhill, with the rod angled up (arc into the weld puddle).Attached is a picture of one of the worst examples (most are not this bad), that shows how the bead attaches to one side, even though I had the rod pointing into the corner.  This example looks cold, but even when I crank up the amps and use a bigger rod I get a similar problem of it jumping back and forth between the sides leaving the center filled with slag. This example is with smaller 6013 rod. The 7014 I have is a little bigger. Thanks for any suggestions to try to practice
Reply:What size rod and amps?
Reply:It looks like your puddle to start off is making it from one corner to the other, so how happens on the next weave when it all goes on the right? It's not even scratched on the left plate as if you poked over there and it was too cold.Also, why are you going downhill?
Reply:If you have to go vertical, go vertical up - which will help with both penetration and visibility. Before that though you need to practice the same weld held horizontally. You will not need to weave if you have your settings right. You need higher amps (say +10%) than you would with a butt weld. You need to hold a nice tight (short) arc. Your rod should be right down in the corner at an angle that equally bisects the angle of the join (i.e. 45 degrees). On the horizontal a bit more drag angle can help. With a vertical up weld keep the rod at about 90 degrees (i.e. horizontal - if that's not too confusing). 6013 rod doesn't penetrate as well so you need to have your settings right for it to work nicely. Cheers - Mick
Reply:I ran into a somewhat similar problem with a T fillet weld due to:- the brand of 6013 electrode forming a sleeve about the rod tip- too low amperage,- too long an arcIn my case, I solved the problem by changing electrode polarity (from electrode positive to electrode negative) and welding position (from flat to vertical up) which dumped more heat into the weld.Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:Why you putting all the weld on the right plate only?
Reply:With 6013 I find vertical-down gives better results than up. Use amps in the higher range for best results. 7014 aren't that great for vertical IMO.For welding out-of-position you will get better results with 6010, 6011, and 7018. 7018 are always run uphill, 6010/6011 can be either but usually downhill. There are lots of threads on this board, and lots of youtube vids that show proper procedures.JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:Throw that junkass 6013 away, all of it, and get some 3/32 and 1/8" 6011, or 6010.  If you want it to look nice and be stronger than your base iron, use 3/32 7018.In the field: '06 Ram 3500/Miller PP350    '14 F-350/Lincoln Classic 300DIn the shop: MM252, Hypertherm PM-85, White face MM200
Reply:Run all of this on dc reverse polarity.  For steel applications, never use straight polarity.  It makes the weld brittleIn the field: '06 Ram 3500/Miller PP350    '14 F-350/Lincoln Classic 300DIn the shop: MM252, Hypertherm PM-85, White face MM200
Reply:Originally Posted by hoffinator88hThrow that junkass 6013 away, all of it, and get some 3/32 and 1/8" 6011, or 6010
Reply:Originally Posted by Baila La PinzaTo the OP, welding fillets vert down with E6013 is a PITA at the best of times, with that thickness of material it's better (read easier) to weld it vert up in a series  tacks, weld for a few secs, break the arc, weld for a few secs, etc...
Reply:Try running on AC, could be experiencing some arc blow for some reason
Reply:Interesting discussion 6013 is designed fof sheet metal and poor fit up applications, it is a ac, dc- rod not for dc+ also the metal has to be relatively clean it can be used in all positions, but as stated before a low to medium penetration rod. The rod angle is very critical as you have to watch the weld pool very carefully, you cannot let slag run in front of the weld puddle you will get slag entrapment or a hole (perosity) in the weld. I find that in vertical up you have to keep a short arc and keep control of the weld crater or puddle and for me I make a ever so slight side to side half u shaped motion when welding vertical up. Hope this helps and practice, practice. and more practice you will get the hang of it.wboldenMiller Shopmaster 300Miller Syncrowave 250Miller Thunderbole 250/150 AC-DCMiller Weldpack 140 w/autosetMiller S-22 WirefeederLincoln 255 xt Mig welderLincoln 216 Mig welderVictor,Smith and Harris OA7X 12 JET BANDSAW
Reply:There is a lot of fertalizer in this thread.First, 6013 is a fine rod for the application and vertical down is fine and preferred by many who do this regularly.  You can carry alot more amps running down than you can running up due to moving away from the heat as all the heat rises and your not.  Long arcing, moving too fast, and welding too few amps are what is causing your problems.  When you first start your puddle, build your weld bead.  too often, people want to start the arc and off they go, never establishing the weld pool.  after you have established the weld pool then move ahead as needed to maintain bead conformity.   the second issue is rod angle.  There is I guess in every beginner to want to angle the rod too much.  I suppose this is for fear the slag will come running down.  the flatter they lay the rod, pointing the rod up, the more trouble they tend to have.  practice running your rod at 90 degrees.  you can point the tip of the rod up about 5 degrees if you like, but not more than this.  you don't have to weave, just make sure you tie both sides of the joint together and move only fast enough to maintain bead profile.lastly, if a rod is ac, then it can be run dc- or dc+
Reply:Originally Posted by Mikel_24Do you suggest breaking the arc so as not to put as much heat into the piece (posibly blowing holes and such)? Are you supposed to restart the arc right where you broke it whitout chipping off the slag or anything? Could it be possible to just step down one size in the electrode size to be able to run a continuous bead without stopping?Just asking. Been playing with welders for a while but always willing to learn some more....
Reply:I know of at least two posters that have used extensively 6013 for pipe in europe.  I am not refutting you mikel_24, i only mention this because they indicate it is extremely common.  More common that 7018 of which one of them didn't seem to have used much.  The two of them have laced pipe of all sizes that is shear pornographic.  I wish they were still active posters because they posted a lot of pictures.
Reply:I have best luck with 6013 on DCEN.    It just works better for me.    Don't get me wrong, if I am stick welding, 95% of the time use 70186013 was MADE FOR high speed downhill sheet metal.  Read the book, it sez so.When I had problems like the first picture I was not running enough amps.I think you need to watch the puddle better.  If its welding on one side you should see it and stop or do what is needed to get a complete weld.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Thank you all.  I had not realized how many responses I was receiving (I am subscribed but got no emails notices).Although there is a lot of differing opinions, I will try some of the suggestions, practice some more, and get back with results.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermickIf you have to go vertical, go vertical up - which will help with both penetration and visibility. Before that though you need to practice the same weld held horizontally. You will not need to weave if you have your settings right. You need higher amps (say +10%) than you would with a butt weld. You need to hold a nice tight (short) arc. Your rod should be right down in the corner at an angle that equally bisects the angle of the join (i.e. 45 degrees). On the horizontal a bit more drag angle can help. With a vertical up weld keep the rod at about 90 degrees (i.e. horizontal - if that's not too confusing). 6013 rod doesn't penetrate as well so you need to have your settings right for it to work nicely. Cheers - Mick
Reply:Have you tried moving your ground?  On the other side of that corner should helpGordie -- "I believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Reply:try some 7018 or 6010 first, then move on the that darn wormholing 6013
Reply:I wonder if the inside corner would not be easier if a root were laid down the inside  using a small rod then switch to 1/8 and build on that?I  get it that the arc can split when the rod is shoved into a corner, but what about a smaller rod?If he reversed the polarity AND use the smaller rod might that not put a good root pass down upon which he could then weave his corner together over top of? I found this older post surfing around for inside corner welding  issues.Hey~!! It's a hobby. It's not supposed to make sense~!!
Reply:^Raul - Yeah it's an old thread, but you are not the only one who has asked these type questions I'm not a pro but I've helped people with this before.  The most common problem I see with 6013 and 7014 on a fillet weld is low amp long arcing.  The amps you run flat while practicing a bead are generally too low for an inside corner.Since both rods can be used as a drag rod, dragging the rod so the arc is as close as it can get seems to work the best for me.  Just point it in and make a puddle -  then drag the puddle along.This works for me, and people I've helped out - I'm sure others have good advice too. Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.