Automated MAG welding: Spatter free

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Hello,I´m working ina a 2 robot welding cell for automotive industry.We weld 0,07 inch thicness parts to a 0,06 inch thicknes tube, mainly fillet welds in tipicall low alloy carbon steel.We actually are welding with Fronius CMT Mag sistems to avoid spatter (we have to produce a lot of parts per year).My question is:Do you know another MAG welding equipment that welds spatter free??[/U]CMT is a bit expensive and it is not the most robust process (we have stops because wire alimentation problems).Thanks beforehand.
Reply:Fronius is a respected brand, and widely used in the auto industry. Can you get their local representative to come out and help you with your problem?Miller and Lincoln have competing processes (CMT and SST respectively), but they work in different ways. I would think that Fronius would be more common in Europe, however.JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:Hello John and thanks for the help.As you say here in Europe Fronius and it´s CMT is the most common in those applications, but I´m looking for the experience in USA.Miller and Lincoln for example are huge reputation American brands and I want to know your experiences in spatter free welds.Thanks
Reply:Hello,Perhaps MIllers Accu Pulse and Lincoln-s RapidArc could do the job without spatter.Has anybody experience working with those two innovative equipments????Thanks beforehand
Reply:I pity the fool that be trying to get spatter free MAG welds.http://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:RapidArc is a pulsed-spray process and requires a high-argon shielding mix (<15 % CO2). It is not completely spatter-free in my experience, but it is quite good considering it was really designed for maximum welding speed.For the thickness of metal you are welding, I think Lincoln's STT process would meet your needs better. There's plenty of info about it on their web site.JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabI pity the fool that be trying to get spatter free MAG welds.
Reply:90/10 CO2 with GMAW-P process using Lincoln S350/R350 units.  70 foot long groove welds, no spatter.
Reply:Originally Posted by B.A.BaracusWe actually do, with CMT and 100%CO2. I mean without spatter sticked to the parts.Regards
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabI pity the fool that be trying to get spatter free MAG welds.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeIM WITH YOU SUCKA!
Reply:Originally Posted by ztfabdon't be talking no jibba jabba fool!
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikesup fool!
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabIt was a joke.Your name is B.A Baracus...like from the A-team.
Reply:Originally Posted by B.A.BaracusHello,I´m working ina a 2 robot welding cell for automotive industry.We weld 0,07 inch thicness parts to a 0,06 inch thicknes tube, mainly fillet welds in tipicall low alloy carbon steel.We actually are welding with Fronius CMT Mag sistems to avoid spatter (we have to produce a lot of parts per year).My question is:Do you know another MAG welding equipment that welds spatter free??[/U]CMT is a bit expensive and it is not the most robust process (we have stops because wire alimentation problems).Thanks beforehand.
Reply:You can pretty much get MAG bug free on the work but not the nozzle. I'm attaching a Co2 weld for a hitch extension, mill scale & rust - no problem, bugs - none... Seems like every chance I get I gotta try the dimes thing these days (darn ZTFab anyway)! @ B.A.Baracus - I expect Kemppi would be the other big player in your region. I doubt you would really get any price advantage on the power supply though.As for the low spatter active gas thing, it's been around for a very long time (before inverters). The drawback has always been the torch uptime because the nozzle still clogs up. The only solution I've seen for this are nozzle cleaning stations the robot go to frequently & get the spatter reamed out. The upside to the active gas is it tolerates poor fits & open roots while giving a reliable 60k weld so you just engineer with that strength level in mind.I'm not sure what the US makers are doing now as they have gone to fine grain roller quenched steels with hardness intensifiers in it (strength in 90-100ksi range), so they gotta be using argon mixes & low energy inputs (meaning fast torch travel) to match things right. In any matter - with argon mixes, open roots, gaps & poor fits are a no-no, so you have to account for that if you don't want weld failures.I don't know of anyone that can just run off & leave the robots for long periods of time though, if that's what you are wondering.Good luckMatt Attached Images
Reply:It seems like a "spot" welded seam, not a continuously welded seam.Am I right?But it is really spatter free.With 100% CO2, you can produce deeper penetration than argon based mixtures.As you told, it is not susceptible to rusty materials, and 100% CO2 shielding gas can well deoxidate the seam, so you don't have to afraid of porosity.But if you need to weld thick plates for structures work in low temperature, you have to forget CO2.You cannot reach good impact energy (Charpy) with CO2 in low temperature.If you weld a seem with 100% CO2, the impact energy of the seam at -20 °C (-4 °F) will be approx 48J.If you weld this seam with 82/18 Ar/CO2 gas, you will get nearly double value, 86J.It is much more better for higher strength, thick steel plates for structure operate in negative temperature (for example welded bridges).Another advantage of argon base mixtures is the clean seam surface.If you have to paint the welded structure after welding, without mechanical cleaning of the seam surface, argon base mixture can be a solution.CO2 welded seam has a lot of "cinder" on its surface, and paint doesn't like it, and doesn't cover there.With 8-10% CO2 content, you can weld almost cinder free, and paint easily, without mechanical cleaning, grinding.It can be important in automotive industry.In my opinion, Fronius is a world class power source.If you have a CMT, you have everything you need in GMAW welding.If you don't need CMT process, you can easily switch off, and weld with pulsed arc, or standard short circuit or spray arc.It is a very stable, and clever machine, you can adjust all welding and background parameter you need in automated welding.It is a good mate in robotic welding.In my opinion Baracus don't need CMT option for this thickness.The advantages of CMT are perceptible under 1.5-1.2 mm (0.06-0.045 inches) thickness.Last edited by jcksn82chrvl; 06-29-2013 at 05:42 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by jcksn82chrvlIt seems like a "spot" welded seam, not a continuously welded seam.Am I right?But it is really spatter free.You cannot reach good impact energy (Charpy) with CO2 in low temperature.If you weld a seem with 100% CO2, the impact energy of the seam at -20 °C (-4 °F) will be approx 48J.If you weld this seam with 82/18 Ar/CO2 gas, you will get nearly double value, 86J.It is much more better for higher strength, thick steel plates for structure operate in negative temperature (for example welded bridges).In my opinion, Fronius is a world class power source. (no argument here)In my opinion Baracus don't need CMT option for this thickness. (no argument here either)
Reply:Originally Posted by Matt_MaguireMy posted weld was done without without breaking the arc. For some background you need to see this thread started by David R;http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=30845Also "Mig like Tig" is discussed on this video;All the above has nothing to do with automated MAG welding "spatter free", I just posted an example of the MAG "spatter free" part.I'm not sure if B.A.Baracus is having feeding problems or fusion problems but he did say "we have stops because wire alimentation problems" which seems to me more like feeding problems which can be from wrong settings, bad ground or clogged nozzles.I've seen automated MAG welding done well with Miller XMT300's & Delta Welds, Hobart ArcMasters & Mega-Migs, Linde SCR type machines, Esabs, Lincoln (many), Panasonic, and Kemppi. I also got to see the Fronius "electro-braze" running at an AWS convention years back but never saw one in actual service (the latter had a bunch of SAE guys looking at it & talking like ducks quacking). They are all gonna have the nozzle spatter problem faster than a mixed gas solution for welding.The choice of which shielding is used is up to a combination of part design engineers and industrial engineers. So if your stuck with MAG the engineers & operators have to get it figured out and make it run (or not & then start over...).You are correct on the properties of an E70 Co2 sheilded weld being lower, sometimes that is desired, it is not all that unusual for a sub-arc to be spec'd for an EM11k filler & flux combination to yeild a 60Ksi weld. The Charpy sucks on that too but the fatige & fracture numbers on samples are very good with a "tighter" range (meaning there is a smaller percentage of failures more than 20% below design). Engineers like that last part a lot and sometimes force a design to it.MAG with E70s-3 wire can't get to the lower numbers of the sub-arc, but it is the closest you'll get with hard wire & gas sheilding.I think it would be a bit of a thread hi-jack if B.A. is really stuck with his parameters and we are talking about different fillers, fluxes & machines.Good luck Matt