Pipe Welding Troubles...

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Now this is just practicing, non Job work.I got a length of 10" 3/8" Carbon Steel Pipe.  I been cutting it into 1 1/2" coupons and putting a bevel on them, leaving a 1/16" land.  Then I fit the coupons together with a 5/64" root opening (I use inner-shield flux core wire as spacers).   The I put 3 1" tacks and grind them to a feathers edge.  I position the pipe in the 5G position, (not rolling it).   Im using 6011 1/8" or 3"32" electrodes.  For the open root pass I run at 72 Amps DCEP.  I start at 12:00 and weld Down Hill towards 6:00.  Then jump on the other side and repeat the process.  Grind out my starts/stops.  My root pass is "AHH" it could be smoother...My Hot Pass I run at 75 amps and once again start from 12:00 - 6:00 Down Hill.  My Hot Pass is In My Opinion is very nice.  Chevrons nice and tight, covered the root pass entirely.  The Cap Pass I still run 6011 at 75 Amps.  It turns out pretty nice.  No Excessive spatter, looks decent. My questions are....1 - I have trouble from the 5:00-7:00 position (overhead). 2 - my root is rough and not consistent.  I can run a nice key hole on the vertical down parts, not so much on the top and bottom.3 - My Penetration is fair.  I think mainly cause I grind my on bevels and there not 100% true throughout the whole bevel.Any thaughts or advice is much Appreciated.  Thanks, Don.Also, I'm using my Trailblazer 302 with no remote.Last edited by DieselDon16; 05-29-2013 at 09:48 PM.Some Blue , Some Red & Some GreyProverbs 16:2-3.2 "All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord. 3 Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans."
Reply:Any pics??Are you shoving the rod up in the joint?I never ran 6011 for a root, I use 10 rods, 1/8' then hot and cover are usually bigger rods.
Reply:For the root pass I hold really close. Almost dragging the rod between the bevels.I don't have any pics..... Without a camera at the moment.Some Blue , Some Red & Some GreyProverbs 16:2-3.2 "All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord. 3 Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans."
Reply:Originally Posted by DieselDon16For the root pass I hold really close. Almost dragging the rod between the bevels.I don't have any pics..... Without a camera at the moment.
Reply:Yes.  I have 6010 rods.  More 6011 though,  I don't push the rod through the opening cause the rod will go directly through....is my fitment Correct?What's a correct root opening??Some Blue , Some Red & Some GreyProverbs 16:2-3.2 "All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord. 3 Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans."
Reply:Originally Posted by DieselDon16I don't push the rod through the opening cause the rod will go directly through....is my fitment Correct?What's a correct root opening??
Reply:Originally Posted by DieselDon16Yes.  I have 6010 rods.  More 6011 though,  I don't push the rod through the opening cause the rod will go directly through....is my fitment Correct?What's a correct root opening??
Reply:1/8th to 3/32 gap and here in ak pipe welding is mostly done vertical up and run with 6010 root and 7018 fill and cap are you trying to be a pipe welder or just messing around. I brought some scap pipe home to pracice too don't wanna be a pipe welder just wanna see if I can do it ya know try whipping that root pass open the keyhole the pull back just a hair repeat repeat repeat. Hold a really tight arc being I'm not a pipe welder but I have read alot about it and the wifes ex father in law is a pipe welder so I ask him do some research  go to a site called www.gowelding.com really good info thereLast edited by chevydyl; 05-30-2013 at 12:17 AM.Miller Syncrowave 210 w/CK FlexLoc 150  3/6/14ESAB PCM 1125 Plasma CutterAtlas 12x36 LatheACER 9x42 3hp millHarig 612 Surface GrinderDRINK Machine              welding&fabrication
Reply:Originally Posted by chevydyl1/8th to 3/32 gap and here in ak pipe welding is mostly done vertical up and run with 6010 root and 7018 fill and cap are you trying to be a pipe welder or just messing around. I brought some scap pipe home to pracice too don't wanna be a pipe welder just wanna see if I can do it ya know try whipping that root pass open the keyhole the pull back just a hair repeat repeat repeat. Hold a really tight arc being I'm not a pipe welder but I have read alot about it and the wifes ex father in law is a pipe welder so I ask him do some research  go to a site called www.gowelding.com really good info there
Reply:Tru dat lol like I said I ain't no pipe welder just researched it for my own practice and I suffer from OCD spent way to much time reading up how to do it lol, another thing I recall from research is that the root is run at about 83 amps I think there is something in code as to amperage range for a 5g schedule 40 any ways look into that site it was very informative he wrote everything based on his class time and an actual 6g pipe testMiller Syncrowave 210 w/CK FlexLoc 150  3/6/14ESAB PCM 1125 Plasma CutterAtlas 12x36 LatheACER 9x42 3hp millHarig 612 Surface GrinderDRINK Machine              welding&fabrication
Reply:Originally Posted by chevydylTru dat lol like I said I ain't no pipe welder just researched it for my own practice and I suffer from OCD spent way to much time reading up how to do it lol, another thing I recall from research is that the root is run at about 83 amps I think there is something in code as to amperage range for a 5g schedule 40 any ways look into that site it was very informative he wrote everything based on his class time and an actual 6g pipe test
Reply:Originally Posted by ShortbusWelderI usually run a tight gap, that is if I'm fitting my pipe. Try 3/32 gap, same for land.  If I don't fit my pipes, I have to adjust for what is given to me..   Why downhill, u going on the line in the fields?
Reply:Originally Posted by DieselDon16I wasnt gonna say anything cause people have a tendency to bust my balls about it, but its always been my dream to Weld on The Pipeline.I figure Im 23 years old, I have a Rig, its not Pipeline ready but everything is paid for including the truck.  I figure one day Im gonna take a Test, So why not practice every chance I can...
Reply:I know you are only practicing , but three tacks on 10'' ?  We usually tack 4 places to line up and then add another 4 to hold everything. No downhill either. All up, 6010 root and 7018 the rest. Try uphill with the 7018 and see how you do.
Reply:pipeline welders going downhill always have a remote handy. and usually a helper to run it for them. I haven't done it in over 8 years, but I seem to recall turning up about 10 or so on the side, then back down when you get to the bottom. You don't want more than a 1/16th gap for downhill, uphill you can go a tad wider.All the pipe welding I did with stick when I was in Alaska was downhill root with 70+ rod----8010. They don't use 6010 because it doesn't meet the the standard -50F charpy tests.
Reply:Gotcha.  Uphill 7018 I'm very proficient with.  I have been running 7018 in the field for awhile now.  Burnt tons of rods.  Only reason I'm going downhill is cause I really been reading and watching videos on Pipeline Welders.  They all are going downhill...I'm gonna get some 70-8010 electrodes and practice practice practice.Some Blue , Some Red & Some GreyProverbs 16:2-3.2 "All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord. 3 Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans."
Reply:Originally Posted by DieselDon16Gotcha.  Uphill 7018 I'm very proficient with.  I have been running 7018 in the field for awhile now.  Burnt tons of rods.  Only reason I'm going downhill is cause I really been reading and watching videos on Pipeline Welders.  They all are going downhill...I'm gonna get some 70-8010 electrodes and practice practice practice.
Reply:I can TIG Weld.   Haven't in a few years but I'm sure it will come right back to me.Thanks for the input guys,  I will have to get a camera and post some pics.Some Blue , Some Red & Some GreyProverbs 16:2-3.2 "All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord. 3 Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans."
Reply:You must be talking north slope pipeline welding if you talkin about -50 lol but further south we don't see thise temps. The three tack thing I see. On a video but the guy was tiggin and pushing the filler through the backside of the pipe kinda odd good luck with bein a pipeliner you know when they started the trans Alaska pipeline they had to spend over a million dollars fixing welds cause the tourists that came up to do had never done anything like it and didn't know what they were doing magine those guys did t much of another chance at th pipe so I'd make sure your good dude ya know don't ever fail a test and if you practice enough you won'tMiller Syncrowave 210 w/CK FlexLoc 150  3/6/14ESAB PCM 1125 Plasma CutterAtlas 12x36 LatheACER 9x42 3hp millHarig 612 Surface GrinderDRINK Machine              welding&fabrication
Reply:There's a small local company expanding into the Pipeline Industry around here to meet the demand of the Marcellus Shale project.  There gonna need Welders to do local lines...I might see about a test in the future.   I wanna see what the test is first and practice practice practice!!Some Blue , Some Red & Some GreyProverbs 16:2-3.2 "All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord. 3 Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans."
Reply:Originally Posted by DieselDon16There's a small local company expanding into the Pipeline Industry around here to meet the demand of the Marcellus Shale project.  There gonna need Welders to do local lines...I might see about a test in the future.   I wanna see what the test is first and practice practice practice!!
Reply:PM sent.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Originally Posted by ShortbusWelder12 on 12 branch and tee test. Or maybe a 10 on 10..  You have to cut fit and weld your pipe.. Pipeline tests are usually the same where ever you test, the only thing that I seen change is the pipe size, as well as, the inspectors. Some inspectors like a heavy root, some like a flatter root.. Ask the inspector what he wants, and how he wants it done..
Reply:If you pipeline you will most likely run into 6010 bead rods and 7010 or 8010 the rest of the way out. 1/8, 5/32, 3/16. So practice with those. Two tacks three tacks or four tacks no more. Tying in on the side can cause a lot of problems but sometimes you need a tack in the side to hold your space, make sure your top and bottom tacks go opposite directions to pull against eachother so you don't lose all your space in one side, all the pressure you should have is the weight of the rod the stinger and your leads, no arc length for your root the fire needs to go inside the pipe.
Reply:Originally Posted by DieselDon16What's a 12 on 12 branch and tee test?I just familiarized myself with a Aransas Bell TestGotcha.   I had a feeling that's what it was.  Is there a formula on how to cut and fit the pipe without a template?The way the joint is positioned in the picture, is that the position it is to be welded in?Some Blue , Some Red & Some GreyProverbs 16:2-3.2 "All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord. 3 Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans."
Reply:Originally Posted by DieselDon16Gotcha.   I had a feeling that's what it was.  Is there a formula on how to cut and fit the pipe without a template?The way the joint is positioned in the picture, is that the position it is to be welded in?
Reply:Originally Posted by ShortbusWelderYes, and yes..
Reply:A good fit is always a plus, but there are times when you are slammed in some spots and have a gap so big you can fit the stinger in in others. On a good tight fit you should be able to jam your rod in there and drag it around and you can tell by the sound that it is running rightDisclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Originally Posted by DieselDon16Do I have to be in the club to find out what the formula is??
Reply:I was lookin at process piping at work and those welders had it easy. All the t's were premade pieces they just welded in I work in operations in a NG field the only ones I found that they had to cope was a bull rail and one of the guys said the welder helper had about 2 solid days into fitup WOW it was just two copes think he was overthinking it so don't do thatMiller Syncrowave 210 w/CK FlexLoc 150  3/6/14ESAB PCM 1125 Plasma CutterAtlas 12x36 LatheACER 9x42 3hp millHarig 612 Surface GrinderDRINK Machine              welding&fabrication
Reply:Originally Posted by TozziWeldingA good fit is always a plus, but there are times when you are slammed in some spots and have a gap so big you can fit the stinger in in others. On a good tight fit you should be able to jam your rod in there and drag it around and you can tell by the sound that it is running right
Reply:The Pipefitter's Blue Book has all the ordinates for saddles.
Reply:So don you gonna show us some pictures of the 5g pipes your welding up?Miller Syncrowave 210 w/CK FlexLoc 150  3/6/14ESAB PCM 1125 Plasma CutterAtlas 12x36 LatheACER 9x42 3hp millHarig 612 Surface GrinderDRINK Machine              welding&fabrication
Reply:Originally Posted by chevydylSo don you gonna show us some pictures of the 5g pipes your welding up?
Reply:Forget the 11 rod, get 10 rods..  That's good your getting free material, nothing wrong with that..Pipe isn't cheap nowadays, so grab what you can..
Reply:Originally Posted by ShortbusWelderForget the 11 rod, get 10 rods..  That's good your getting free material, nothing wrong with that..Pipe isn't cheap nowadays, so grab what you can..
Reply:Originally Posted by DieselDon16That's right,  I m gonna get more 6010I tell ya Pipe Welding is much more exciting than building Handrails.  I'm in my shop today by myself welding and I keep yelling "Ain't Nothin Finer Than A Pipeliner!!"
Reply:Originally Posted by ShortbusWelderHAHAHA..   Even if you don't make it on the line, money is to be made welding pipe uphill..
Reply:Originally Posted by DieselDon16Let me ask you a serious question.....   I know up hill welding gains more penetration but why do some jobs call for up hill and some call for downhill?Downhill seems faster.....
Reply:Originally Posted by ShortbusWelderDowhill is faster. Uphill does get more pentration, it's all about the code and the industry of the pipes being weld. Most our welding  is uphill, we do gas,steam,water,exhaust,etc. The only place I really see downhill welding is on the pipeline, and that's because the code calls for it. The code dictates the way to weld the pipe..
Reply:Originally Posted by TimmyTIGThe Pipefitter's Blue Book has all the ordinates for saddles.
Reply:My bad deiseldon the addy I meant to give you is www.gowelding.org hope that can help you a lilMiller Syncrowave 210 w/CK FlexLoc 150  3/6/14ESAB PCM 1125 Plasma CutterAtlas 12x36 LatheACER 9x42 3hp millHarig 612 Surface GrinderDRINK Machine              welding&fabrication
Reply:Picked up a Length of 8"OD Sched 40 yesterday and a new Camera and 10lbs of 1/8" 6010 Electrodes.The Welding Store doesnt keep 70-8010 in stock and they can only order me 50lbs,  So Im gonna buy them online and get them shipped to me.Now Im figuring out a better way to cut this pipe into 1 1/2" Coupons and putting a real nice bevel on them.   Im Gonna try my Worm Drive and a Metal Cutting Blade.Some Blue , Some Red & Some GreyProverbs 16:2-3.2 "All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord. 3 Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans."
Reply:way to go on getting some practice pipe and rods.  I wouldve ordered the 50lbs of rods, you can use them all up on a good weekend of welding. Maybe two. Lol I know its pricy, but the practice will pay off in the long run.can you enroll in at a local school and practice ttheir doing downhill. Prob be cheaper in the long run using their pipe and rods, and power, ga, etc..   just a thought..we want pics now that you have a new ccamera. You going to practice cutting and fitting for the branch and tee, or just concentrate in welding?iiLast edited by ShortbusWelder; 06-20-2013 at 12:24 PM.
Reply:I'm gonna try the Branch Tee but I wanna use this pipe for the 5G welding.  I'm gonna get more pipe for the Branch Tee.   Plus I'm ordering the template.I took night classes at my old Tech School for getting my D1:1 Cert,  but they dont offer any pipe classes.Last edited by DieselDon16; 06-20-2013 at 09:59 PM.Some Blue , Some Red & Some GreyProverbs 16:2-3.2 "All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord. 3 Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans."
Reply:Originally Posted by DieselDon16I'm gonna try the Branch Tee but I wanna use this pipe for the 5G welding.  I'm gonna get more pipe for the Branch Tee.   Plus I'm ordering the template.I took night classes at my old Tech School for getting my D1:1 Cert,  but they dont offer any pipe classes.
Reply:Originally Posted by ShortbusWelderThat stinks about not offering pipe classes.. Tell them get with the times. lolWell, atleast you have a great deal of practice pipe. What did the pipe cost, I'm sure that wasn't cheap.. Do you have a rig already?
Reply:I thought you bought a 21' piece of pipe, when you said length.  Well, you got a good deal on it.. Nice truck too.. You will be ready to go once you get the practice down.. Let the practice begin.  We will be awaiting pics..
Reply:Another thing that might help is to cut your coupons longer. An inch and a half seems kinda short. Not enough meat to get good heat displacement. I would think you would always be fighting the base metal heat. Just a thought.