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From a previous thread of me getting used to my new setup: http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=61515I took those chicken poo welds, ground them out at a 30 deg bevel and re-welded them with to see if I could do better. I was able to start without a problem and I think I had better control. I used e6013 at about 90a.First pic was the best IMO, second pic had some inclusions when I cracked off the slag? Third pic was my first attempt at a horizontal weld, I'm not sure what went wrong there. The fourth pic, I think I tried to push the puddle on that one. I think penetration was a lot better, when I cut it apart I'll know for sure. Thanks for looking and give me your feedback. Attached ImagesAC-180 Lincolnwelder circa '50's
Reply:I know its saturday and all, but 120 people looked at this and not a comment? That's fine if they were all noobs like me, but I could use the advice of a seasoned welder. I am starting out and all critiques are needed. Thanks in advance!AC-180 Lincolnwelder circa '50's
Reply:Originally Posted by chopnhackI could use the advice of a seasoned welder
Reply:Looks like you maybe going too fast among other things, a typical issue most newer stick welders have. A full 1/8" rod of say 6013, should lay down about 6-8" of weld. If you are going farther, you are probably moving too fast.Pushing isn't really suggested when using stick. Generally you want to drag the rod not push it. My guess is that it looks better because you could differentiate the slag from the puddle easier and weren't out running the puddle.You need to learn to look past the arc and see what the molten puddle is doing. It's a bit harder with stick, because you will also need to learn to tell the difference between the molten slag, and the molten steel. too many guys watch the shinny light, not the puddle around it. It will take a while to learn to see this. Once you do it will all suddenly click and start to make sense better. Slow down and really try and look at what's happening next to the arc, not at the arc itself.Oh and don't be at all surprised if you don't get an "instant" reply no matter how many guys it looks like viewed your thread. Sit back and wait and you'll probably get the answers you are looking for ( even if it's not what you want to hear ). Generally you'll notice that only a few dozen guys tend to respond to the "help with my welds" threads, and it's usually the same ones over and over again who do. That's a very tiny percentage of the people who view threads. Many just open it up and look to see if theres something there they might be able to learn from, or look to see if they agree with the comments others have made..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks brother  There are so many tricks of the trade!!! I read keep stick nearly vertical, but with 6013 and 7014/24 the tip is to angle it steeper in your direction of travel, got it, will try that out! Thanks man Any clue on what went wrong on the horizontal run, pic 3?I will practice some flat welds on this piece next time out. Didn't even dawn on me to do that LOL  I will also try to weld the fillet of the angle.Thanks DSW, the rod was 3/32". I was thinking about what you said and I did notice today that I was having a harder time seeing the puddle... I may go a shade lower on the auto darkening helmet,  i think its at 12 or 13 right now (its the cheap one from northern tool). Let me ask you this, if it seems that I am starting to burn through the base metal, do I move faster or lower the amps?BTW love your tag line!Last edited by chopnhack; 10-15-2011 at 09:54 PM.AC-180 Lincolnwelder circa '50's
Reply:Originally Posted by chopnhackLet me ask you this, if it seems that I am starting to burn through the base metal, do I move faster or lower the amps?
Reply:Another thing to mention is - try not stepping the weld. Drag it through your joint in a smooth and consistent speed. At least until you see what your looking for in the pool as DSW said. Not every rod needs to be manipulated. You can drag a 6010, you can step a 7024. Just depends on the joint config and what the needs are as far as process goes. 90a sounds about right to me for 6013 in horizontal. It looks like you're doing an edge weld there? Try doing some lap joints. you can get some metal and stack it like stairs, then it will give you many fillet configs to weld up. Its a good use of material. Anyways, your welds look bad. BUT it looks like there was progress, so thats all that matters. As long as you keep learning, your doing SOMETHING right  Just need to get more time behind the hood! I agree with the steeper rod angle. That helped me when I was doing 6013 in school. (I dont use much of it at work..)
Reply:Get a piece of that same angle in front of you and fill it completely with beads. By the time your done you have a better idea of how to run a bead and the next step would be to grab a  second piece of angle and work on improving your beads. After that then try the different positions horiz, overhead and vert up. Stick requires a good amount of skill to be developed, making it a difficult process to master, which is why a lot of people run to mig. Improvement comes with hours of arc time and pounds of rod not after just running a few beads. The welding program I went through dedicated 150 hrs to each process smaw, gmaw and gtaw on top of that I took two additional lab classes just to work on my smaw skills.Last edited by Jay O; 10-16-2011 at 02:06 AM.
Reply:Wow, good stuff guys, this is the kinda stuff you can't read in a book and I appreciate the advice! I will reread this info before I burn anymore rods AC-180 Lincolnwelder circa '50's
Reply:Slow it down bud, they also look a bit cold to me maybe kick it too 100 amps? just my .02cTons of hand tools mostly KingchromeArc welderMiG weldersO/A setupMany grindersair compressorsmany air toolsIndustrial drill pressTwo Forkliftsmany more toolsMan has his will, but woman has her way.- Oliver Wendell Holmes
Reply:Practice, practice, practice, and slow down abit. Most of the students I have taught how to weld always go way too fast at first. My first project in beginning welding class (after we could strike an arc and run some decent beads without too much slag) was something we called the brick. 3" x 4" x 1/4" plate that had bead after bead welded onto it until we had a brick about 3" thick. Then we cut it in half and polished the cut surface a bit to see how many inclusions it had. hours and hours of burning and chipping, but the muscle memory made learning other positions and techniques easier.
Reply:I was taught to weld with 6013 1/8" almost 50 years ago most of my welds looked like yours back then.  I would run too cold and too fast.  Sometimes the cold was because of to long of an arc length other times it was because of too fast travel.  Notice on I believe it is your second picture the improvement on the second half of the weld as compared to the first half.  When I took welding in Colleg I thought it would be an easy class.  Instead the Instructor turned the heat up 30 degrees and told me it was time to learn how to control heat with speed alone.  Lesson learned, 4 day/ week 2 hours/ day, 16 weeks.  Still practice the basics time to time as no longer weld every day.
Reply:In both High School and College we did a pad, your version of a brick, 4 x 4 x 1/4 welded overlapping beads on each layer, each layer at 90 degrees to the previous.  The corners of mine curled up almost 1/4" by the time itwas done.  Heated it bright red then set it on a fire brick to let it cool.  Next day cut it with a band saw to polish out.  36 years later I still have the board from welding class with what I considered the best of each weld glued onto it.
Reply:Hit the metal with a grinder first. Getting rid of the mill scale/rust will help with the stability of the arc. When your welding two pieces together and one is dirtier than the other, the arc won't move to the dirty piece as easy as the cleaner piece and you will have to an exaggerated weave to get it to jump the arc. It will be even more noticable when you move to 7018.Last edited by RaptorDuner; 10-16-2011 at 12:01 PM.Millermatic 200Hobart Handler 120Victor O/A & Ramco BandsawLincoln 225 ACSnapOn AD HoodMiller XMT304/22AHypertherm Powermax 1650 G3Lincoln Idealarc DC600 w/Extreme 12 VSMiller Digital Elite "Joker"
Reply:Great stuff guys, keep it coming. I took your advice slow6i and JayO as well as others and burnt about 9 rods of 3/32 slowly going about 6"-7" total travel but I left it at 90a. I also changed my helmet setting 1 click lower to lighten my viewing area a bit. I was able to watch the puddle more and I am guessing that what I am watching for is not only color and time to solidify but width of puddle. The last weld (bottom of top surface) had a more even width, but the slag was actually really hard to knock off... There were a few I was able to rake off. I definitely had better penetration, you can see on the second from the bottom at the end there's like a thumbnail dent. I had a side pic showing about 1/8" depth. Will that be too hot when I try to weld up 1/8" wall rectangle? Also I changed my angle from nearly vertical to about 45-30 degrees and dragged the coating of the rod most of the times, sometimes I was abit higher.Thanks again. Attached ImagesAC-180 Lincolnwelder circa '50's
Reply:You are defiantly showing improvement.One thing to keep in mind when welding pads like this is that the work piece will heat up as you go. You need to either dunk it in water to reduce the heat, or have several pieces that you can work on and let each cool between passes. Dunking real welds isn't a good idea, but for basic beginning practice it's fairly common so you can keep on welding with minimal materials.  What happens when the material heats up too much is it acts like you cranked up the amps on the machine. I often see guys at the tech school who do nice looking practice welds, but when they go to do their  final weld on new material they can't get a nice weld. The problem is the machine is set too cold for they way they were practicing. When they ran 10-12 beads all one after another, the material got hot and the welds run different than when a plate is cold. It wouldn't surprise me if the welds you had issues with the slag not coming off were either the very 1st few or the very last ones. The ones that the slag just fell away from were probably done at the right settings for the material at that time. The others were either too hot or too cold.I 1st learned to stick using the angle like a V and filling the inside to the top rather than welding pads on flat plate. Just a different way to do the same thing..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Two things to work on. One, lap your beads by half because it is something you have to do anyways when doing multi pass welds. Second, start working on your stop/starts with the goal being to have a seemless/consistant bead.
Reply:Dead on DSW, I was having so much fun burning rods that I didn't think about heat until about half way through when the piece groaned a little bit! I had a thought about hosing it down, but was pressed for time. And your right about the last bead being the really hard to knock off slag! The first slag believe it or not raked right off.Thanks Jay O, I figured for being able to look at each weld to keep them separated. But its a good suggestion, I will practice doing that as well. I will try and get some scrap plate next week. So far I have been burning one rod in a continuous fashion, but thats interesting. Stopping in the middle of a weld, like when you need a new rod or changing positions and starting again? When doing this do you peck at the slag or just in front of it? Do you move your pool back a little and then drag forward?Thanks a bunch guys! AC-180 Lincolnwelder circa '50's
Reply:The tech school I 1st went to years ago gave each of us a 3"x3" 1/4" thick piece of angle iron 12-14" long and 2 small pieces of 1/4" flat stock to make "feet" so the angle points up like a V. You just keep welding one bead after another 1/2 on the last in levels to fill it up. Stopping to cool the piece every 2 or 3 rods. The reason the angle was that length was that if you ran a 6-8" bead, you'd have to stop and get a new rod to finish the pass. Then you'd start your next pass with what ever was left on that rod and repeat cleaning between beads. You learned not only to run beads, but to do restarts as well. It's a good way to get the basics down to start before you move on to joints where you will eat up tons of metal for practice..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks DSW, the rod was 3/32". I was thinking about what you said and I did notice today that I was having a harder time seeing the puddle... I may go a shade lower on the auto darkening helmet, i think its at 12 or 13 right now (its the cheap one from northern tool). I weld stick with a # 9. Guidelines today recommend a # 10. Play with your hood's shades until you can see the puddle, not the arc, comfortably. You'll never be a good welder if you can't see what you're doing. I stick welded 38+ years but have never used 6013, so I can't comment on your welds here, but practice, practice and then practice some more. You'll get it!Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.                                         -Cree Indian ProverbSA 200 LincolnVictor Torches
Reply:We did what was called an x-project. We took a 1/4x3x7 flat bar, and put two 1/4x1x7 flat bars on it to form an x. Then we used each groove that created to do our different "projects", which eventually were filled all the way to the edges. Was a good way to get a lot of welding in with multiple rods, in multiple positions, with minimal materials. I may have some pictures somewhere, but im too lazy to look for them  Chopnhack - Doing a little bit better with that second set of pictures. Just have to watch your slag with the 6013. I remember it being a pain in the *** to get it back behind the bead where it belongs. (Thats what that spot is in the upper right: slag ahead of your weld pool.) Just keep running beads man. Your getting there. Its gonna take time, and practice. I wish I had more advice, but alas, it has already been said, and im still a rookie myself. I have plenty to learn still so I hope I didnt make myself look like I knew what i was talking about!
Reply:A lot of good advice about amps and speed, but how about your personal comfort. Are you using two hands, Can you get a block to rest your arm against while making your passes or can you get your elbow against your waist on your second hand to help keep yourself steady. I see a lot of beginners fighting the weight of the cables and trying to weld 1 handed out at arms length. The steadier you can make yourself the better welds you are going to produce."Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DCMillermatic 251   Syncrowave 300   30A spoolgunLincoln MP210Hypertherm 45(2) LN 25(2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV(4) SA200   1 short hood    SA250    SAM 400
Reply:Good point Kolot! I did wrap the cable around my hand to take the weight of the slack off of my wrist. Most of the time I used the free hand as a guide along the table and sometimes I did use it to steady the rod. I wasn't quite sure where it belongs yet! Table at this point is pretty funny... its actually a piece of painted plywood AC-180 Lincolnwelder circa '50's
Reply:Here is a pic of some of my tries, was last year, I took welding class in school, but that was over 38 years ago.I play at it.Takes practice and maybe find someone you can watch and get pointers from.And here is a winch mount I made to go in the front or rear receiver hitch of my truck.Last edited by partsman; 10-18-2011 at 02:02 AM.
Reply:pics after welding it together?miller syncrowave 250hobart handler 140home made 400 amp engine driven in progress...Ok, I know I should have practiced some more straight beads on plate, but  I really wanted to check out the 2x1 11gauge tube I will be using in the future. All in all the 9" square came out pretty good I think, I mean its square and in plane. I cut all the pieces on my miter saw with a metal cutting fiber type wheel. I cut them at a 45 deg. miter, I figured that if I mitered the outside pieces of the frame, I wouldn't have to cut and weld a patch to cover the open hole left at the ends by the tube. First pic is the square. Second is what I think was the best weld on the piece. Third pic is an area that had opened up some while welding, I worked around the frame and allowed some time for cool down, but there was some expansion going on - I didnt clamp anything  I forgot to be honest... That weld had to be a little wider to bridge the opening. Attached ImagesAC-180 Lincolnwelder circa '50's
Reply:All in all not bad for how far you are along. You need to work on your stops a bit from the picts. If you are using a regular wood miter saw, you might want to think about getting a dedicated abrasive saw for cutting metal. Wood saws really don't hold up well to a steady diet of hot sparks and abrasive dust. I know several guys who have quickly killed good wood miter saws doing this. There have been any number of threads on metal cutting saws. A bit of searching will give you tons of reading material to go thur on bandsaws, chop saws, carbide metal cutting saws and so on..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks DSW! The miter saw was actually an older one that has been since dedicated to rough carpentry and the occasional aluminum and now steel! Thanks for the info, I will check out those old threads.Also, when you stop, do you need to remove the slag before you start again?AC-180 Lincolnwelder circa '50's
Reply:Didn't get to do any welding today, lots of to do list done though  I ground the welds flat today to get a better look at what was going on below the surface. Tell me what you think:First pic has the top ground flush but focus is more on corner joint, second photo is better angle on corner and third photo is the same top joint. Attached ImagesLast edited by chopnhack; 10-25-2011 at 08:40 PM.AC-180 Lincolnwelder circa '50's
Reply:I would sand tubing with a sanding pad or flapdisk or the flat of the grinder as it gives a much more money finish!  As for the welds, if you stick welded them, you are in good shape!The progress from your first welds on plate to joining pieces of tubes together are like night and day!If I could critique the grinding, grind with the flat of the disk.  Gouges and dishing show up like a sore thumb through paint and powdercoat and chrome will show everything!Last edited by mb_welder; 10-26-2011 at 09:06 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by mb_welder  As for the welds, if you stick welded them, you are in good shape!
Reply:Ever walked through a mill or work in one?  With handrail, the welds holding the top rail to the rest is generally ground down flush (the exception being the pulpmills, as most of the handrail there is done with round tubing as opposed to square).  Most other welds are left and 90% of the time, all of the side welds are ground flush with the corner welds being left alone. (Linguist I am not!)There is a lot of debate lately between application vs reality and skill level and this is why I don't post very often (everyone knows everything!)  Yes, a cold weld ground flush will never hold, but when you look at the length of the crater, that is not a cold weld!I can see the progress, and he is on the right track!  A CWB inspector will tell him to fill the crater and that is that.(I guess this is where an engineer should pipe in, which I am not!)I am not a teacher, but the difference between joints from the first picture to last is blatantly apparent; slag inclusions to none.  That is progress folks!  This individual has my backing!  One thing I would work on is the tie ins at the corners.  If you burn slightly past the radius, the sides become that much easier to weld (as the tie in's for the opposite sides tie in naturally!)Last edited by mb_welder; 10-26-2011 at 09:35 PM.
Reply:Thanks guys! I figured grinding was the only way for me to test the welds. I don't have access to an x-ray machine and I can't read the film anyway. I could try and put a jack between the pieces and force them apart? Sounds a bit dangerous...Grinding is new to me so thanks for the input. I was using a 24 grit grinding wheel. I figured that would cut through the weld fast. I did use the edge in a few spots where there was a lot of weld to cut through, otherwise I used the flat. Is there any other way to test the weld?Should I cut sections of the miter off? Diagonally across the miter in sections to see a cross section of each corner?AC-180 Lincolnwelder circa '50's
Reply:Hi chopnhack.Looking back at your first beads you posted...3/32" 6013 at 90 amps for running beads?I seldom go above 65 - 75 amps with that size/type electrode.I suspect you may be long arcing it (got slag inclusions) and the excess amps is forcing you to move quickly and in your case jumpily = lumpy welds with the distictive <<<< pattern.As Lanse said, "6013 f'n SUCKS for slag inclusions".In my limited experience, 6013 is the most challenging steel electrode to use for slag!  However, with 6013 if you can't run a bead without slag, there is little chance you will be able to do decent a lap or T joint, where with 6013 a tiny bit of long arc splits the arc and throws a slag line in the middle of the weld.  Honestly, for me, it much easier to use 7014, 7018 or even 6011 and 6010! I don't like the suggestion of a large degree of tilt angle and dragging the rod - it goes against my instructor's recommendation.  However today, after making 4 consecutive filet welds with slag inclusions, in desperation I tried it... looked good till I knocked the slag off = YUK!  Worse! Slag stringers all over the place.For me, that big-a-tilt produces those <<< in your weld bead instead of nice ooo's.  Think about it... that angle throws the arc force, heat and metal at a glancing angle to the joint.  For the same penetration you are going to need more amps and then the metal piles up faster, forcing you to travel faster - making more <<<< tracks.6013 is not easy for me either.  I stuggled with it again today.It seems that once the slag gets ahead of the rod tip, you're just better off stopping, clean up the slag, do a tie in and continue.You can try tilting you work up at an angle of say 15 - 20 degrees and let gravity help keep the slag behind the rod tip as you travel up.  You still weld with no more than 5 degrees of tilt off normal to the plate. Like Stage Hand said, "slow down abit. Most of the students I have taught how to weld always go way too fast at first."  I find my best results come when I can go as slow as possible with control (the arc just grazing the weld pool) carrying a consistant width of weld puddle along with me.  This is not easy but when I do it right - the result is very rewarding - almost.Here's a picture of some lap joints in 1/8 inch plates made with 3/32 inch 6013 at 65 amps electrode negative. Top Weld: Except for the slag at the start, the rest is darn near perfect - flat profile at 45 degrees to either surface .  See the nice little overlapping circles ooo's - no <<<< tracks.Middle Weld: See the slag line near the start?  Yep, the arc split between the top and bottom plates.  The rest of the weld has a slightly convex U-shaped profile but the circles are oooo nice!Bottom Weld: No slag but a pronounced convex weld profile - too much heat and moving too fast; see the <<<< tracks from the middle to the end of the weld (right side)..The difference between 11, 12 or 13 of the shade is not a big deal.  In fact, if you're running 12 or more using a 3/32 rod at 90 amps, you are likely long arcing it - creating much more arc light.  Just shorten up your arc and produce less light.Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:Thanks for taking the time to do that Rick! I really appreciate that, it helps me alot. Going back through the posts I failed to mention that when I made the square out of tubing I was back to holding the stick at near vertical, but as for long arcing, I am not so sure since I was dragging the rod most of the time. Can't dispute what I see though!! The reason I was at 90a was package recommendations, for my AC machine the box of rods says 70-100a. If it stops raining I will lower the amperage, reduce my helmet setting some more and try to read the puddle better, ultimately I am looking for flat ooo's like you said. Will slow it down some and see what we get! I think I will still cut up that tubing to get a look see inside.Thanks again for the info! AC-180 Lincolnwelder circa '50's
Reply:Have a look at this great site... 3rd picture/video down shows a video on arc length; it may help a lot.  http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/learning-arc.htmRick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:Thanks again man, that is a very useful sight. Wish he had more on there. If this rain would stop I would be out burning rod....AC-180 Lincolnwelder circa '50's
Reply:It finally lightened up enough to get out there and do some damage! I cut apart the square I made earlier and was surprised to see pretty good penetration. One picture shows complete penetration in some areas and about 1/3 of the way in another (see where joint would be left and right on cut face). Would be nice to be more consistent but I'll take it for my second weld ever. See first two pics.The next group of pics is running 3/32", 70A, rod near vertical, shade 10 and I was able to see the puddle, arc was kept tight.         I don't know Rick if DC- has something to do with your welds being so flat or if I am still moving too fast. I burnt the entire rod on nearly all of the beads within the first 6 inches. Got some practice on restarts too. I dunked the piece after 4 rods and let it cool. The first pass was really good, slag fell right off on all welds actually. I figured I would just sister another weld right on top of the first pass, that didn't work out to well...Rick, when you ran your beads, where you doing a straight slow drag or did you weave, circular motion, back and fill? I worked fairly slow and just watched the puddle width, whenever I became uneven I just moved the rod back a little to allow it fill in and then continued. Attached ImagesLast edited by chopnhack; 10-28-2011 at 09:01 PM.AC-180 Lincolnwelder circa '50's
Reply:Part of the reason Ricks welds look so smooth is that he's doing Lap welds rather than running beads on flat plate. Beads on flat plate always look a bit tall. Your welds look like they are improving. They still look a tad cold to me. If you are holding a good arc, you might need to up the amps a bit. Option 2 would be to increase your arc length just slightly. I can't remember what rod you are running at the moment..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Youre making good progress dude, keep it up!! [Account Abandoned 8/8/16 Please Do Not Attempt Contact Or Expect A Reply]. See you on YouTube! -ChuckE2009
Reply:These passes were 3/32" 6013 with 70a. I was running 90a but Rick mentioned dropping it. Maybe tomorrow I will get a chance to do some more. Should I slow down further?AC-180 Lincolnwelder circa '50's
Reply:Originally Posted by chopnhackI don't know Rick if DC- has something to do with your welds being so flat....Rick, when you ran your beads, where you doing a straight slow drag or did you weave, circular motion, back and fill?
Reply:Thanks for the detailed analysis and the tie in tips, will have to try that next round out! The camera was giving me some trouble in the garage, I was directly under some fluorescent's.....I burnt about a pound today trying out some stuff. I think I have found that 85A seems to be a good amperage for 3/32 6013. Slag was peeling of by itself and just raking the hammer across pulled off thick whole lengths of slag! The weld was also flatter. I also learned that 150a will set the coating of 1/8" 6010? (the old stuff that came with the welder) a blaze!!  I tried the old 7018 1/8" at a higher amperage as well but what I noticed is that the arc had a hell of a time getting started and about as bad of a time keeping up....Some pics of the good beads of 3/32 6013 at 85a about 6" per rod, rod near vertical.The mess at the beginning of the third bead in the first photo is where I started with 7018 and couldn't get it going, thats also why there is some slag there. I fell off of the workpiece on the first bead. You can tell where the tie ins are at the end of the first photo. The next photo is the bead continued with new rod. I understand what they mean about getting comfortable.... starting with the stick, my arm is way up in an uncomfortable stance and gets better as the rod gets shorter.Questions:   When I sectioned the square tube I saw areas of complete weld through and sections as bad as only 1/3 depth fusion. The square tube is only 11ga, just shy of 1/8" thick, should I:1. Use 1/8" rod instead of 3/32?2. Use something other than 6013?3. Bevel the edges? Attached ImagesLast edited by chopnhack; 10-29-2011 at 08:53 PM.AC-180 Lincolnwelder circa '50's
Reply:Originally Posted by chopnhackQuestions:   When I sectioned the square tube I saw areas of complete weld through and sections as bad as only 1/3 depth fusion. The square tube is only 11ga, just shy of 1/8" thick, should I:1. Use 1/8" rod instead of 3/32?2. Use something other than 6013?3. Bevel the edges?
Reply:Originally Posted by chopnhack...Slag was peeling of by itself and just raking the hammer across pulled off thick whole lengths of slag! ...  I tried the old 7018 1/8" at a higher amperage as well but what I noticed is that the arc had a hell of a time getting started and about as bad of a time keeping up....
Reply:Thanks guys! DSW this is what I am trying to make. The corners will be mitered with tight fitting joints. My two concerns are good penetration in joints and flatness. The top welds will be ground flush. The 7014 seems to have the same characteristics as 6013 from what I read on the miller site but with better penetration. I will have to call the LWS and see if they have that in either 3/32 or 1/8. I am leaning towards 3/32 for this project because of the thin wall and small joint area, but you tell me. As for flatness I got a lot of great advice in an earlier thread http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=60396 I haven't tried any of those methods yet, but I will. Attached ImagesAC-180 Lincolnwelder circa '50's
Reply:1/8" material will be a challange as a newer welder using stick. It's doable, but will take a fair amount of practice. Mitered joints will be a bit tougher because of the thin outer corners. If anything I'd either cut the miters short or cut the piece long and grind back the knife edge on the outside corner. I'd probably suggest beveling the pieces slightly vs using a gap at your level. I'd knock a 1/16" off the top edge so you get bit more penetration and but the joints tight. Me personally, I'd just gap them maybe 1/16" - 3/32" ( I'd run a few test pieces to dial in gap, heat and so on before I jumped right in)As far as stick I'd go with 3/32" 7014 or maybe smaller say 1/16"  if you can find it, so you have a bit more control. ( 5/64" 7014 is probably tough to get easily.) 7018 would be my #2 choice simply because it needs good storage once opened. If I thought I'd use it all, I'd use that over 7014. For a small job where I'd have plenty of rod left over, I'd go with 7014. Since you are practicing a bunch also, if you planned to use up the 7018 in two or three weeks, and kept it in  a sealed tube when not using it. I'd have no issues getting 7018. I generally don't use enough stick rods to warant that however, so I opt for the rod with the better long term storage option most times. Attached Images.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:That's going to be tricky.... I am thinking that beveling without grinding right through the metal and removing the landing is going to be really tough. Holding the grinder at angle shouldn't be too bad plus or minus a few degrees.... I guess I'll just have to test it out! AC-180 Lincolnwelder circa '50's
Reply:Way easier than I thought  I figured that any beveling is going to improve penetration so I had at it. Its ready for tacking and another run at welding. I might just tack it and save it for after I get a little better at tie ins and going around corners. I did manage to save some small square tubing scraps that I can use to practice welding a filet when I put it open end up on plate. That will give me a way to look at the inside of the weld. Attached ImagesLast edited by chopnhack; 10-30-2011 at 08:41 PM.AC-180 Lincolnwelder circa '50's
Reply:That looks good... just watch that the heat of a full weld doesn`t turn your plastic clamp ends into orange goo!Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet