ATV Trailer axle - Looking for some input

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Hi, I am thinking about making an atv tipping trailer, but would prefer to setup an axle system something like the attached pictures, were the leading wheel will absorb the bump first and the second wheel keeping the trailer level and vice versa.I dont know how to setup the central pivot point between the two wheels that will attach to the trailer frame. Would prefer if the left and right side of the trailer was independant of each other. I am also concerned with the alignment of the four wheels under certain conditions such as heavy loads, sharp turning.Any help would be great. Attached Images
Reply:I personally wouldn't want that system.  First of all, you are talking massive materials to make something like that strong enough, especially when factoring in high speed and alignment.  Secondly, it lacks springs.  Trailers need springs.  Otherwise, you end up breaking things on the trailer as well as the trailer itself.  Look into a standard tandem leaf spring suspension that has the equalizer bar in the middle.  It still allows the wheel movement just as the picture does, but also gives you the springs.  The only downside (in your case) is it doesn't have the independent side to side method you commented on.  However, on most flat beds, the trailer has enough suspension travel, with the equalizer walking beam setup, that the trailer frame itself drags before you run out of travel on the springs/axles.Who is John Galt?
Reply:You are on the right track. A walking beam axle is the way to go. Don't use leaf springs on a atv trailer. Leaf spring trailers bounce and sometimes flip. (dont ask how I know that) at higher speeds. A walking beam atv trailer is what I would build, way safer can carry heavy loads and be pulled faster.here's a pic of 2 types that I build. and the load they can carry. Attached Images
Reply:Yep, i'd say that's quite a load. Nice work
Reply:I would stay away from springs.  I have seen trailers with springs and have tendancy to tip over.  Especially with the big ATV tires.  I have built a couple of walking beam trailers and they ride very smooth and handle the load very easily.  Have hauled several moose and bear out of some pretty rough terrain with no problems.  Here are couple of pics of the last one that I built. Attached Images
Reply:The walking beam is a "spring" to some extent.  It transfers motion to the frame in a gentler fashion becuase it doesn't take obstacles in a fixed straight line motion.  It dispels force by climbing over the obstacle to some degree.  The force is dissipated in many directions during this process"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:The ATV tires are about all the shock absorption you need on those things.
Reply:Originally Posted by north of the 53rdYou are on the right track. A walking beam axle is the way to go. Don't use leaf springs on a atv trailer. Leaf spring trailers bounce and sometimes flip. (dont ask how I know that) at higher speeds. A walking beam atv trailer is what I would build, way safer can carry heavy loads and be pulled faster.here's a pic of 2 types that I build. and the load they can carry.
Reply:Yes, weld the DOM tube onto the angle iron then onto the trailer frame, slide the axle in and then weld a washer to the end of it the same size as the tube. I used channel for this one because it's all I had. That's just the way I built mine I would like to see other ideas also. anyone? Attached Images
Reply:we built several dog trailers with that same axle design.  we drilled and tapped a zerk so we could grease the pivot axle.  when you pull a dog trailer through the mud and muck, the grease will keep everything like it needs to be.i like the welded washer.  we tapped and bolted a keeper washer instead.  if we ever wanted to take the walking beam off all we needed to do is unbolt and slip it out of the dom tube.  after 10 years we have never needed to unbolt it so I will be welding the next ones on.
Reply:Yes, I also put zerks on all my axles. I've built a dozen atv trailers (all walking beam type) so far and never had one break or ware out.
Reply:I've built many walking beams over the years, ranging from the light-duty ATV type stuff to multi-ton ag equipment and bank-out wagons.For the ATV stuff, for the center bearing on the walking beam, I use standard trailer spindles, plug weld them into a square tube axle, which then gets welded or bolted onto the trailer frame.   Get a machine shop, to cut me a couple hubs, out of DOM tubing, that can be welded into the beams.   Sized correctly, to fit the timken bearings, races, seals, and hubcap.Just like a wheel bearing, now and anytime in the future, you can disassemble, repack, replace, or just tighten up.    No welded in washers or keepers .....Last edited by jsfab; 11-24-2009 at 05:01 PM.
Reply:Thanks for all the advice, have a good idea what to do now.Looking for some more advice though!!I am thinking about making a rear door for the trailer like in the attached photos.The idea is to have removable mesh high frames on the front, sides and rear, but have the sides and rear door removable.So I was thinking about making the rear door solid for 1/3 of the total height and 2/3 for the mesh frame.Have the mesh frame built with some extended box section that would slide into larger box section of the smaller solid door which can be secured with pins, so when required the two doors would open as one rather than two separate doors shown in the picture; or having to remove the top door first (difficult to do with a full load).Have the latches on the top and bottom capable of making it work for both tipping action and a ramp for loading a lawnmower,etcWhat do you think?? Attached Images
Reply:I have no experiance with these trailers for atvs. But, like all arm chair QB, I have a suggestion/question. I own a few 6x6 military vehicles and the rear tandems use a leaf spring with the center mounted in place, and the tips of the spring resting on the axles(maybe upside down for this creation). This serves very well for articulation. I will try to post a pic up tomorrow so you can see what I am trying to describe. Just thought I'd try to add an idea that might have been over looked.
Reply:You're describing pretty much the same thing as a Hendrickson suspension used on the drivers for semi's.  Very good suspensions.  Beats the old Reyco's all to crap.Air bags...............hoooey, and phoooooey.  Rupture a bag, or get a valve freeze up on a really cold day, and ya look like Stimpy tooling down the highway"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:The trailer in my avatar uses walking beams with no springs. It handles pretty well even with it's top heavy load, but we only go 3 MPH when loaded!Going to have to disagree with Sam on the airbags though. One of our tractors has an air ride cab. When it's hooked to our air ride Landoll trailer, the whole rig rides like a Lincoln Town Car. The walking beam and / or leaf spring trailers will beat your load to death at interstate speeds.Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC (Sold)Miller Dialarc 250HFMiller MM251Miller MM200 (Sold)Miller MM130Miller Spot WelderVictor O/A rigMiller Spoolmatic 1 (Sold)
Reply:Originally Posted by bassboy1I personally wouldn't want that system.  First of all, you are talking massive materials to make something like that strong enough, especially when factoring in high speed and alignment.  Secondly, it lacks springs.  Trailers need springs.  Otherwise, you end up breaking things on the trailer as well as the trailer itself.  Look into a standard tandem leaf spring suspension that has the equalizer bar in the middle.  It still allows the wheel movement just as the picture does, but also gives you the springs.  The only downside (in your case) is it doesn't have the independent side to side method you commented on.  However, on most flat beds, the trailer has enough suspension travel, with the equalizer walking beam setup, that the trailer frame itself drags before you run out of travel on the springs/axles.
Reply:Can someone explain  the benefit  of this type of trailer axle system. It looks like a quite expensive system for a limited capacity trailer.
Reply:Originally Posted by triptesterCan someone explain  the benefit  of this type of trailer axle system. It looks like a quite expensive system for a limited capacity trailer.
Reply:how much load in Ton this axle can handle in a rough bumpy ride I wonder...?Unit in my fab shop dept:my good hand and team that trust me...A lone welder make art... a village full of welder make Miracles...
Reply:Originally Posted by Mandauhow much load in Ton this axle can handle in a rough bumpy ride I wonder...?
Reply:I know my single axle ATV trailer take a beating and keeps on going......South Arkansas RebelMiller 210 W/ Spoolgun& dual tank rackMiller Thunderbolt AC/DC
Reply:Question to N of 53rd:Can you tell me the size of the square tube you used for the walking beam  (Looks like maybe 1 1/2 x 2 1/2" x 1/8").  Also I was wondering about welding in the spindle's, most of the ones I found do not have a very long stub end, maybe 2" or so max - so did you find longer ones and were you able to weld it to both sides of the tubing (if so you must have welded it from the inside since I don't see a second hole in the square tubing) or did you only weld it to the one side?   I am guessing it is just welded on the one side  but I thought I would ask.  Thanks
Reply:I used 2x3 - 1/8 tube for these ones but 1 1/2 x 3 would work also. the spindles I bought were 2000 lbs rated, 9 inches long and yes I welded both sides but the offsets of the rims are sometimes different. The first few that I built I had to add a 1/4 inch spacer to them so the tires wont rub on the walking beam. The last 3 trailers I built I didn't check the rim offsets and I built the same way I allways do and the tires stick way out from the walking beam (didn't have to add any spacer). If I would've noticed that I would've drilled right threw to the other side. With 1 1/2 x3 I would just drill right threw. I used a bessy clamp to hold the spindle tight and flat while I welded them on. Here's a few pics of what I mean. Attached Images
Reply:Thanks for the info and pictures - you sure do help a guy out!   Now what's with all the trailers?  I only have two and the wife is wondering why I need another ... Oh well guess they'll never understand ... we just gotta have lots a  stuff.Originally Posted by benc199Hi, I am thinking about making an atv tipping trailer, but would prefer to setup an axle system something like the attached pictures, were the leading wheel will absorb the bump first and the second wheel keeping the trailer level and vice versa.I dont know how to setup the central pivot point between the two wheels that will attach to the trailer frame. Would prefer if the left and right side of the trailer was independant of each other. I am also concerned with the alignment of the four wheels under certain conditions such as heavy loads, sharp turning.Any help would be great.
Reply:Nice work on those trailers. I've been wanting to build one myself and have never gotten around to it. Looks like I need to get started.
Reply:Originally Posted by HardwoodThanks for the info and pictures - you sure do help a guy out!   Now what's with all the trailers?  I only have two and the wife is wondering why I need another ... Oh well guess they'll never understand ... we just gotta have lots a  stuff.
Reply:Here is a walking beam set up that i made years ago. I have a couple different uses for the axles,so it is quite versatile. Will probably get a 6' aluminum tub bent up for it this winter for my next project. 4 axles@1750# an the two top ones are 2000# Attached Images2008 Dodge 1Ton 2007 Lincoln 200D Pipelinerkubota with throttle controlMiller Dynasty 200dxLincoln 200 Powermigspoolgun
Reply:Walking beam axles;  (RE North of the 53rd ) Would like to exchange email on this build. Live in Western Canada and outfit, could really use these for taking in camps. If you have additional info or pics or plans and are interested send me pm. Thanks      Fully equipped shop, super job by the way
Reply:replied to, check your PM
Reply:Awsome dude! Great job, but I must warn you to be prepared... every buddy or friend you have ever had Will be wanting one... again looks great!
Reply:Originally Posted by fchesser78Awsome dude! Great job, but I must warn you to be prepared... every buddy or friend you have ever had Will be wanting one... again looks great!
Reply:north of 53rd. Thanks for posts and pictures, you inspired me to build my own. Now lets hope it holds together. Cheers! Attached Images
Reply:Damn, Nice job!
Reply:Originally Posted by Denonorth of 53rd. Thanks for posts and pictures, you inspired me to build my own. Now lets hope it holds together. Cheers!
Reply:General question for any and all that have built a variety of these, do you notice any real differences in the reactions of the trailer or dynamics of towing of the duals where the spindles and center pivot are all in line or nearly in line versus one that's the inverted T or inverted V design ? Just as an observation it looks like that in the case of the inverted T or V that if the front wheel were to start to rise that the trailer would start to not only rise but rack backwards a bit. Is that right or not? Maybe it doesn't make any significant differences?"The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:Hi SandyI basically used the exact same design as "north of 53rd" used except I drilled and taped the inner side of the axle and put in a 1/2" bolt so I could remove them if necessary. I used 1.25 OD DOM tubing as the receiver portion and 1" OD DOM with a .75 solid rod inside of that to make the axle. I also added a grease fitting to keep everything moving nicely. As for the performance I can't answer that because I'm waiting to take it out for a shakedown run, but I am only going to be using it at very low speeds as the trail to the fishing camp is nasty to say the least!. Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by DenoHi SandyI basically used the exact same design as "north of 53rd" used except I drilled and taped the inner side of the axle and put in a 1/2" bolt so I could remove them if necessary. I used 1.25 OD DOM tubing as the receiver portion and 1" OD DOM with a .75 solid rod inside of that to make the axle. I also added a grease fitting to keep everything moving nicely. As for the performance I can't answer that because I'm waiting to take it out for a shakedown run, but I am only going to be using it at very low speeds as the trail to the fishing camp is nasty to say the least!.
Reply:Originally Posted by north of the 53rdAll the trailers i've built were for family & freinds except 2. They would buy the material and I would build them. here's a pic of the last one I built.
Reply:are there any plans/diagrams available or a parts list for making these walking axles? not quite sure how it works :Sty in advance
Reply:How hard is it to make sharp turns with a trailer like that loaded down? It seams like you'd be putting quite a pit of stress on the beams, especially the beams that have the "drop axle". I bet you wouldn't want to do donuts in the yard with one, tear the yard all up LOLAlso after looking at some of yalls posts, I'd like to ask a question. For the trailers that have a "drop axle" or some version of that, the walking beam's center pivot point is not in plane with the wheel's spindle it. It would seem like you would lose some of the articulation that in inherent to the system. I understand you probably do it to gain ground clearance but (in my head) the walking beam design went from a see-saw to a small swing, and it would bind a little easier. How far am I off?Last edited by minner; 04-28-2010 at 09:16 AM.
Reply:Good question, but there an off road trailer, not pavement. It will turn as sharp as the quad will and It probably will tear up the lawn, but I don't use mine for that. The see-saw effect is still there even with the drop axles. The arc has changed very little. A lot of people wont need them, a single axle works great to (especially on a golf coarse). But for me, I wouldn't be without the walking beam.
Reply:north of the 53rd:was wondering what size angle you used for the frame, if you dont mind me askingTy in advance
Reply:I used 2x2 1/8 wall for the frame.
Reply:North of 53rd.. Can you tell me where you get the containers for your trailers? Are they fiberglass?
Reply:There made of plastic it's called roto moulding all 1 piece. they're made in preeceville sask ph:306.547.5430Last edited by north of the 53rd; 04-29-2010 at 03:11 PM.
Reply:I don't see why you couldn't put in some stock coil overs from a quad if you really thought you needed it, but they seem to work just fine how they are."...My pappy was a pistol I'm a son of a gun...""...God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy..."
Reply:Originally Posted by north of the 53rdYou are on the right track. A walking beam axle is the way to go. Don't use leaf springs on a atv trailer. Leaf spring trailers bounce and sometimes flip. (dont ask how I know that) at higher speeds. A walking beam atv trailer is what I would build, way safer can carry heavy loads and be pulled faster.here's a pic of 2 types that I build. and the load they can carry.
Reply:Very impressive North of 53.Would you consider taking more photos on your next build and post them?  (yes I'm asking a lot  Have you considered making a set of plans ie. detailed notes and photos, and burning to a disc?  I think you could sell them on e-bay.